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From: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>
To: Vinod Koul <vkoul@kernel.org>
Cc: Peter Ujfalusi <peter.ujfalusi@ti.com>,
	dmaengine@vger.kernel.org, Michal Simek <michal.simek@xilinx.com>,
	Hyun Kwon <hyun.kwon@xilinx.com>,
	Tejas Upadhyay <tejasu@xilinx.com>,
	Satish Kumar Nagireddy <SATISHNA@xilinx.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 2/6] dmaengine: Add interleaved cyclic transaction type
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 18:00:16 +0200
Message-ID: <20200304160016.GB4712@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200304153718.GU4148@vkoul-mobl>

Hi Vinod,

On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 09:07:18PM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote:
> On 04-03-20, 10:01, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 10:43:01AM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote:
> >> On 03-03-20, 21:22, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Mar 03, 2020 at 10:02:54AM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote:
> >>>> On 02-03-20, 09:37, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> >>>>>> I would be more comfortable in calling an API to do so :)
> >>>>>> The flow I am thinking is:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> - prep cyclic1 txn
> >>>>>> - submit cyclic1 txn
> >>>>>> - call issue_pending() (cyclic one starts)
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> - prep cyclic2 txn
> >>>>>> - submit cyclic2 txn
> >>>>>> - signal_cyclic1_txn aka terminate_cookie()
> >>>>>> - cyclic1 completes, switch to cyclic2 (dmaengine driver)
> >>>>>> - get callback for cyclic1 (optional)
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> To check if hw supports terminate_cookie() or not we can check if the
> >>>>>> callback support is implemented
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Two questions though:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> - Where is .issue_pending() called for cyclic2 in your above sequence ?
> >>>>>   Surely it should be called somewhere, as the DMA engine API requires
> >>>>>   .issue_pending() to be called for a transfer to be executed, otherwise
> >>>>>   it stays in the submitted but not pending queue.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sorry missed that one, I would do that after submit cyclic2 txn step and
> >>>> then signal signal_cyclic1_txn termination
> >>> 
> >>> OK, that matches my understanding, good :-)
> >>> 
> >>>>> - With the introduction of a new .terminate_cookie() operation, we need
> >>>>>   to specify that operation for all transfer types. What's its
> >>>> 
> >>>> Correct
> >>>> 
> >>>>>   envisioned semantics for non-cyclic transfers ? And how do DMA engine
> >>>>>   drivers report that they support .terminate_cookie() for cyclic
> >>>>>   transfers but not for other transfer types (the counterpart of
> >>>>>   reporting, in my proposition, that .issue_pending() isn't supported
> >>>>>   replace the current cyclic transfer) ?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Typically for dmaengine controller cyclic is *not* a special mode, only
> >>>> change is that a list provided to controller is circular.
> >>> 
> >>> I don't agree with this. For cyclic transfers to be replaceable in a
> >>> clean way, the feature must be specifically implemented at the hardware
> >>> level. A DMA engine that supports chaining transfers with an explicit
> >>> way to override that chaining, and without the logic to report if the
> >>> inherent race was lost or not, really can't support this API.
> >> 
> >> Well chaining is a typical feature in dmaengine and making last chain
> >> point to first makes it circular. I have seen couple of engines and this
> >> was the implementation in the hardware.
> >> 
> >> There can exist special hardware for this purposes as well, but the
> >> point is that the cyclic can be treated as circular list.
> >> 
> >>> Furthemore, for non-cyclic transfers, what would .terminate_cookie() do
> >>> ? I need it to be defined as terminating the current transfer when it
> >>> ends for the cyclic case, not terminating it immediately. All non-cyclic
> >>> transfers terminate by themselves when they end, so what would this new
> >>> operation do ?
> >> 
> >> I would use it for two purposes, cancelling txn but at the end of
> >> current txn. I have couple of usages where this would be helpful.
> > 
> > I fail to see how that would help. Non-cyclic transfers always stop at
> > the end of the transfer. "Cancelling txn but at the end of current txn"
> > is what DMA engine drivers already do if you call .terminate_cookie() on
> > the ongoing transfer. It would thus be a no-op.
> 
> Well that actually depends on the hardware, some of them support abort
> so people cancel it (terminate_all approach atm)

In that case it's not terminating at the end of the current transfer,
but terminating immediately (a.k.a. aborting), right ? Cancelling at the
end of the current transfer still seems to be a no-op to me for
non-cyclic transfers, as that's what they do on their own already.

> >> Second in error handling where some engines do not support
> >> aborting (unless we reset the whole controller)
> > 
> > Could you explain that one ? I'm not sure to understand it.
> 
> So I have dma to a slow peripheral and it is stuck for some reason. I
> want to abort the cookie and let subsequent ones runs (btw this is for
> non cyclic case), so I would use that here. Today we terminate_all and
> then resubmit...

That's also for immediate abort, right ?

For this to work properly we need very accurate residue reporting, as
the client will usually need to know exactly what has been transferred.
The device would need to support DMA_RESIDUE_GRANULARITY_BURST when
aborting an ongoing transfer. What hardware supports this ?

> >> But yes the .terminate_cookie() semantics should indicate if the
> >> termination should be immediate or end of current txn. I see people
> >> using it for both.
> > 
> > Immediate termination is *not* something I'll implement as I have no
> > good way to test that semantics. I assume you would be fine with leaving
> > that for later, when someone will need it ?
> 
> Sure, if you have hw to support please test. If not, you will not
> implement that.
> 
> The point is that API should support it and people can add support in
> the controllers and test :)

I still think this is a different API. We'll have

1. Existing .issue_pending(), queueing the next transfer for non-cyclic
   cases, and being a no-op for cyclic cases.
2. New .terminate_cookie(AT_END_OF_TRANSFER), being a no-op for
   non-cyclic cases, and moving to the next transfer for cyclic cases.
3. New .terminate_cookie(ABORT_IMMEDIATELY), applicable to both cyclic
   and non-cyclic cases.

3. is an API I don't need, and can't easily test. I agree that it can
have use cases (provided the DMA device can abort an ongoing transfer
*and* still support DMA_RESIDUE_GRANULARITY_BURST in that case).

I'm troubled by my inability to convince you that 1. and 2. are really
the same, with 1. addressing the non-cyclic case and 2. addressing the
cyclic case :-) This is why I think they should both be implemeted using
.issue_pending() (no other option for 1., that's what it uses today).
This wouldn't prevent implementing 3. with a new .terminate_cookie()
operation, that wouldn't need to take a flag as it would always operate
in ABORT_IMMEDIATELY mode. There would also be no need to report a new
capability for 3., as the presence of the .terminate_cookie() handler
would be enough to tell clients that the API is supported. Only a new
capability for 2. would be needed.

> >> And with this I think it would make sense to also add this to
> >> capabilities :)
> > 
> > I'll repeat the comment I made to Peter: you want me to implement a
> > feature that you think would be useful, but is completely unrelated to
> > my use case, while there's a more natural way to handle my issue with
> > the current API, without precluding in any way the addition of your new
> > feature in the future. Not fair.
> 
> So from API design pov, I would like this to support both the features.
> This helps us to not rework the API again for the immediate abort.
> 
> I am not expecting this to be implemented by you if your hw doesn't
> support it. The core changes are pretty minimal and callback in the
> driver is the one which does the job and yours wont do this

Xilinx DMA drivers don't support DMA_RESIDUE_GRANULARITY_BURST so I
can't test this indeed.

> >>>> So, the .terminate_cookie() should be a feature for all type of txn's.
> >>>> If for some reason (dont discount what hw designers can do) a controller
> >>>> supports this for some specific type(s), then they should return
> >>>> -ENOTSUPP for cookies that do not support and let the caller know.
> >>> 
> >>> But then the caller can't know ahead of time, it will only find out when
> >>> it's too late, and can't decide not to use the DMA engine if it doesn't
> >>> support the feature. I don't think that's a very good option.
> >> 
> >> Agreed so lets go with adding these in caps.
> > 
> > So if there's a need for caps anyway, why not a cap that marks
> > .issue_pending() as moving from the current cyclic transfer to the next
> > one ? 
> 
> Is the overhead really too much on that :) If you like I can send the
> core patches and you would need to implement the driver side?

We can try that as a compromise. One of main concerns with developing
the core patches myself is that the .terminate_cookie() API still seems
ill-defined to me, so it would be much more efficient if you translate
the idea you have in your idea into code than trying to communicate it
to me in all details (one of the grey areas is what should
.terminate_cookie() do if the cookie passed to the function corresponds
to an already terminated or, more tricky from a completion callback
point of view, an issued but not-yet-started transfer, or also a
submitted but not issued transfer). If you implement the core part, then
that problem will go away.

How about the implementation in virt-dma.[ch] by the way ?

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

  reply index

Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-01-23  2:29 [PATCH v3 0/6] dma: Add Xilinx ZynqMP DPDMA driver Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 1/6] dt: bindings: dma: xilinx: dpdma: DT bindings for Xilinx DPDMA Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 2/6] dmaengine: Add interleaved cyclic transaction type Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  8:03   ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-23  8:43     ` Vinod Koul
2020-01-23  8:51       ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-23 12:23         ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-24  6:10           ` Vinod Koul
2020-01-24  8:50             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-10 14:06               ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-13 13:29                 ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-13 13:48                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-13 14:07                     ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-13 14:15                       ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-02-13 16:52                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-14  4:23                           ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-14 16:22                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-17 10:00                               ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-02-19  9:25                                 ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-26 16:30                                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-02  3:47                                     ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-02  7:37                                       ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-03  4:32                                         ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-03 19:22                                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-04  5:13                                             ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-04  8:01                                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-04 15:37                                                 ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-04 16:00                                                   ` Laurent Pinchart [this message]
2020-03-04 16:24                                                     ` Vinod Koul
     [not found]                                                       ` <20200311155248.GA4772@pendragon.ideasonboard.com>
2020-03-18 15:14                                                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-25 16:00                                                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-26  7:02                                                         ` Vinod Koul
2020-04-08 17:00                                                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-04-15 15:12                                                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-06 14:49                                                     ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-03-11 23:15                                                       ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-26 16:24                                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-02  3:42                                   ` Vinod Koul
2020-01-24  7:20           ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-24  7:38             ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-24  8:58               ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-24  8:56             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 3/6] dmaengine: virt-dma: Use lockdep to check locking requirements Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 4/6] dmaengine: xilinx: dpdma: Add the Xilinx DisplayPort DMA engine driver Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 5/6] dmaengine: xilinx: dpdma: Add debugfs support Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 6/6] arm64: dts: zynqmp: Add DPDMA node Laurent Pinchart

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