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From: Andreas Ericsson <ae@op5.se>
To: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@kernel.org>
Cc: "Jean Delvare" <khali@linux-fr.org>,
	"David Woodhouse" <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
	"Kristian Høgsberg" <krh@redhat.com>,
	"Johannes Schindelin" <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>,
	users@kernel.org, "Jeff King" <peff@peff.net>,
	"Junio C Hamano" <gitster@pobox.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [kernel.org users] [RFD] On deprecating "git-foo" for builtins
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:32:51 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <48B51133.1030400@op5.se> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <48B46443.6000800@kernel.org>

H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> Jean Delvare wrote:
>>
>> Reducing /usr/bin in size was totally worthwhile. Maybe not to you, but
>> to the silent majority I am a proud member of, it was. (I'm not saying
>> that the path that was taken to get there was optimal, just that the
>> goal was sound.)
>>
> 
> You keep trying to use the Nixon argument ("silent majority.")  You *do* 
> know that it was a rhetorical device used by Nixon's speechwriters to 
> push ahead with policies despite compact opposition, don't you?
> 
> As far as I can tell, most of the arguments in favour came from fanbois 
> of $OTHER_SCM which went along the lines of "why does git need all this 
> stuff in /usr/bin, when $OTHER_SCM doesn't?"  It had nothing to do with 
> reality, of course; it was just a difference between git and $OTHER_SCM 
> which they choose to pick on.
> 

Well, some new users both here and on #git have been slightly bewildered
about the number of commands the default bash-completion show when typing
git<tab><tab>. If anything, the move is long overdue, or should have
waited until 2.0 where people would expect to have to re-learn quite a lot.

There were, initially, two drawbacks with having the git-<commands> outside
the users $PATH. The first was performance when used from scripts, which
was addressed in November 2005 when the git wrapper was rewritten in C,
prior to the 1.0 release.
The second is the shell-completion, which was added in September 2006,
prior to the 1.5 release.

In retrospect, it would probably have been a good thing to make the move
with the 1.0 release (which would likely have caused the bash and zsh
completion scripts to pop into existence a lot earlier than 1.4.2), or
in 1.5, when both reasons for keeping the commands in the path were simply
not there anymore. 1.5 was also informally nicknamed "the UI release", so
it would have sort of fitted in there, while 1.0 was the first "this is
how git will work for the foreseeable future" release, so anything before
1.0 could be considered beta software with a very flexible and fast-moving
UI.

Worth remembering for the future perhaps, although I know it's easy to
overlook the fact that the inertia of the userbase grows exponentially
with the headcount of the same.

-- 
Andreas Ericsson                   andreas.ericsson@op5.se
OP5 AB                             www.op5.se
Tel: +46 8-230225                  Fax: +46 8-230231

  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-08-27  8:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 193+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-08-24  3:33 [RFD] On deprecating "git-foo" for builtins Junio C Hamano
2008-08-24  4:23 ` [kernel.org users] " Linus Torvalds
2008-08-24  4:54   ` Imran M Yousuf
2008-08-24  8:40 ` Stefan Richter
2008-08-25 11:49 ` David Woodhouse
2008-08-25 12:17   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-08-25 12:43   ` Andi Kleen
2008-08-26  3:00     ` A Large Angry SCM
2008-08-25 13:22   ` Ben Collins
2008-08-25 14:38     ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-25 18:19   ` Johannes Schindelin
2008-08-25 23:41     ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-26 12:27       ` David Woodhouse
2008-08-26 14:57       ` Jeff King
2008-08-26 15:34         ` Kristian Høgsberg
2008-08-26 15:59           ` David Woodhouse
2008-08-26 16:04             ` Matthias Kestenholz
2008-08-26 16:25               ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-26 16:45                 ` Andi Kleen
2008-08-26 17:04                   ` Jeff King
2008-08-26 17:05                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-26 17:27                     ` Andi Kleen
2008-08-27  6:04                       ` Ulrich Windl
2008-08-26 17:10                   ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-26 17:11                     ` [PATCH] bash completion: Hide more plumbing commands Petr Baudis
2008-08-26 17:24                       ` Shawn O. Pearce
2008-08-26 17:43                         ` Jakub Narebski
2008-08-26 18:25                         ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-26 18:27                           ` Shawn O. Pearce
2008-08-26 19:04                           ` Daniel Barkalow
2008-08-26 19:07                             ` Shawn O. Pearce
2008-08-26 19:23                               ` Daniel Barkalow
2008-09-03 22:23                           ` Petr Baudis
2008-09-03 22:31                             ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-26 17:38                       ` Jakub Narebski
2008-09-03 17:56                         ` Petr Baudis
2008-09-04  4:57                           ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-26 21:53                       ` Matthieu Moy
2008-08-27  9:09                         ` Karl Hasselström
2008-08-26 17:12                     ` [kernel.org users] [RFD] On deprecating "git-foo" for builtins Shawn O. Pearce
2008-08-26 17:16                       ` Jeff King
2008-08-26 17:47                         ` Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy
2008-08-26 21:06                         ` Willy Tarreau
2008-08-27 20:24                           ` Jeff Garzik
2008-08-27 20:27                             ` Jeff King
2008-08-27 20:38                               ` Jeff Garzik
2008-08-27 20:53                                 ` Jeff King
2008-08-27 21:05                                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-08-27 21:13                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-27 21:22                                     ` Jeff King
2008-08-27 22:29                                       ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-27 21:23                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-27 23:49                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2008-08-28  6:51                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2008-08-28  7:46                                       ` git-show vs git-log (or: git show vs git log) Dominik Brodowski
2008-08-28 14:44                                       ` [kernel.org users] [RFD] On deprecating "git-foo" for builtins Alex Riesen
2008-08-28  5:43                                 ` Mike Hommey
2008-08-27 20:50                             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-27  6:00                   ` Ulrich Windl
2008-08-27  7:59                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-08-27 19:14                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-08-27 19:43                     ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-27 19:50                       ` Jeff King
2008-08-27 19:54                         ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-27 20:43                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-08-27 21:19                             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-08-27 23:27                               ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-27 23:53                                 ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28  0:05                                   ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28  9:04                                     ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-28 10:33                                       ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 10:42                                         ` David Woodhouse
2008-08-28 19:56                                           ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 10:47                                         ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-28 16:35                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-28 19:24                                           ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 19:52                                             ` Teemu Likonen
2008-08-28 20:23                                               ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 20:44                                                 ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-28 20:57                                                   ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 21:23                                                 ` Jeff King
2008-08-28 21:41                                                   ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 21:53                                                     ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-28 21:59                                                     ` Jeff King
2008-08-28 22:33                                                       ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 23:04                                                         ` Jeff King
2008-08-28 23:22                                                           ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 23:36                                                             ` Jeff King
2008-08-28 23:24                                                           ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-28 23:28                                                             ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 23:30                                                             ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-28 23:41                                                             ` git-* in test scripts (was On deprecating "git-foo" for builtins) Jeff King
2008-08-29  0:04                                                               ` git-* in test scripts Junio C Hamano
2008-08-29  0:10                                                                 ` Jeff King
2008-08-29  7:51                                                           ` [kernel.org users] [RFD] On deprecating "git-foo" for builtins Andreas Ericsson
2008-08-29  8:05                                                             ` Matthieu Moy
2008-08-29  8:23                                                               ` Andreas Ericsson
2008-08-29  8:27                                                               ` Matthias Kestenholz
2008-08-29  9:02                                                                 ` Matthieu Moy
2008-08-28 23:12                                                         ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-29 15:24                                                           ` Aidan Van Dyk
2008-08-29 16:11                                                             ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-29 16:24                                                               ` Aidan Van Dyk
2008-08-29 16:28                                                                 ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-29 16:41                                                                   ` Aidan Van Dyk
2008-08-30  8:13                                                                   ` Andreas Ericsson
2008-08-28 23:31                                                         ` Jakub Narebski
2008-08-29  9:33                                                   ` Wincent Colaiuta
2008-08-30 13:24                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-08-30 13:50                                                       ` Teemu Likonen
2008-08-30 14:08                                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-08-26 17:07                 ` Jeff King
2008-08-26 17:42                   ` Teemu Likonen
2008-08-26 16:17             ` Kristian Høgsberg
2008-08-26 16:23             ` Jean Delvare
2008-08-26 16:50               ` Takashi Iwai
2008-08-26 17:20                 ` Jean Delvare
2008-08-27  7:42                   ` Andreas Ericsson
2008-08-27  8:21                     ` Jean Delvare
2008-08-27 15:14                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-08-26 20:14               ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-08-27  7:42                 ` Jean Delvare
2008-08-27  8:32                 ` Andreas Ericsson [this message]
2008-08-26 17:03             ` [kernel.org users] " Linus Torvalds
2008-08-26 17:29               ` Bruce Stephens
2008-08-26 17:35                 ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-26 17:38                   ` Bruce Stephens
2008-08-28 15:21                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2008-08-26 17:34               ` Takashi Iwai
2008-08-26 18:09               ` Dominik Brodowski
2008-08-26 18:19                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-26 18:55                   ` Al Viro
2008-08-26 19:04                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-26 19:22                       ` Al Viro
2008-08-26 19:11                     ` Teemu Likonen
2008-08-28 15:24                     ` Johannes Schindelin
2008-08-26 21:08                   ` Dominik Brodowski
2008-08-26 21:28                   ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-26 21:38                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-26 23:21                   ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-27 15:27                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-08-27 23:09                       ` Russell King
2008-08-27 23:53                         ` Stefan Richter
2008-08-28 19:19                           ` Russell King
2008-08-28 20:10                             ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-28 20:30                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-08-28 20:36                               ` Petr Baudis
2008-08-28 20:57                             ` Stefan Richter
2008-08-28 21:05                               ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28  1:25                         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-08-27  0:34               ` A Large Angry SCM
2008-08-27 12:23           ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-08-26 20:39         ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-26 21:03           ` Jeff King
2008-08-27  2:24             ` Jay Soffian
2008-08-27 14:49               ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-08-26 23:36           ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-26 23:45           ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-08-28 15:32             ` Johannes Schindelin
2008-08-27  0:17           ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-08-27 22:52             ` Russell King
2008-08-28 15:34               ` Johannes Schindelin
2008-08-28 16:10                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-08-28 19:18                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2008-08-28 19:27                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-08-27 23:38             ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-28  0:09               ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-28  0:44                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-08-28  7:14               ` David Woodhouse
2008-08-28  8:17                 ` Junio C Hamano
2008-08-28  8:32                   ` David Woodhouse
2008-08-28  8:57                     ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-28 11:54                       ` Al Viro
2008-08-28 13:15                         ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-28 13:34                           ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-28 13:45                             ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2008-08-28 16:37                             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-28 20:42                               ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 23:03                                 ` Jakub Narebski
2008-08-28 23:14                                   ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-28 23:45                                     ` Jeff King
2008-08-28 23:55                                       ` Perry Wagle
2008-08-29 14:12                               ` Felipe Contreras
2008-08-28 14:06                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-08-28 14:13                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-08-28 16:17                     ` Linus Torvalds
2008-08-26  2:58   ` A Large Angry SCM
2008-08-26  7:17     ` Jean Delvare
2008-08-26 11:12       ` A Large Angry SCM
2008-08-26 11:56         ` Stefan Richter
2008-08-26 21:00           ` Steven Rostedt
2008-08-26 14:28         ` Shawn O. Pearce
2008-08-26 14:46       ` Jeff King

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