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From: Elijah Newren <newren@gmail.com>
To: Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>
Cc: "Johannes Schindelin" <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>,
	"Phillip Wood" <phillip.wood@dunelm.org.uk>,
	"Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget" <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
	"Git Mailing List" <git@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Denton Liu" <liu.denton@gmail.com>,
	"Junio C Hamano" <gitster@pobox.com>,
	"Pavel Roskin" <plroskin@gmail.com>,
	"Alban Gruin" <alban.gruin@gmail.com>,
	"SZEDER Gábor" <szeder.dev@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 15/15] rebase: change the default backend from "am" to "merge"
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 13:30:38 -0800
Message-ID: <CABPp-BHiYDLRgPX4A1-8f-zgfsDqf6PkToStaV3ukC5Dsq=3-w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200116203521.GA71299@google.com>

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Of course, arguing against myself, we could always tell them to just
> > implement a post-rewrite hook.
>
> That's an interesting facet I hadn't thought about before.
>
> It's tempting since it kind of minimizes the blast surface while
> providing people a way to keep doing what they had wanted.
>
> Historically "git cherry-pick" ran "git commit", causing it to run the

What do you mean "historically"?  I'm pretty sure this piece of code
is shared in the sequencer between rebase -i, rebase --merge, and
cherry-pick, so all three currently call post-commit unless I'm
mistaken.

> post-commit hook.  There's some related discussion at
> https://lore.kernel.org/git/20f33df8-7ba8-af26-e0c8-16152345c85b@talktalk.net/
> of other side effects of having run "git commit".
>
> ... oh! git cherry-pick doesn't run post-rewrite.  Interesting.
>
> To summarize what we've discussed so far:
>
>  A. run post-commit hook consistently in rebase --am and --merge modes

Could you spell these out a bit more?  I think by this option you mean
"Always run post-commit when commits are created", which includes
whether those commits were created by git-commit, git-rebase (any
backend), git-merge, git-cherry-pick, git-revert, git-am, etc. (but
with a glaring exception for fast-import and things that call it, much
like the exception post-rewrite already carves out for it).

Much as I don't see a reason to make rebase --merge different than
rebase --am, I don't see a reason to differentiate between git-merge
and git-commit.  I also don't see why rebase --am should be different
than am.

>     Advantages:
>     * consistent with historic "rebase -i" behavior
>     * supports hooks like ctags generation that want to update state to
>       match what has been committed in the worktree (especially when
>       preparing for the rebase to stop due to conflicts)
>     * consistent with other commands like "git cherry-pick" that run the
>       post-commit hook
>
>     Disadvantages:
>     * invokes hooks more often in a setting they are not used to being
>       invoked in
>     * slows down rebase
>     * when post-commit hooks are used for deployment, exposes
>       intermediate states in the middle of a rebase to the deployment
>       environment
>     * inconsistent with "git am"

I don't want to introduce additional inconsistencies.  git-am and git
merge should be changed at the same time if we go this route.

>     Mitigations:
>     * could go through the normal warn about change, opt-in config,
>       opt-out config cycle to make the change smoother
>     * could provide new hooks (e.g., one run after a batch of objects
>       is created for applications similar to "git gc --auto", one run
>       when HEAD is updated for applications like the ctags one, one
>       run on ref update for applications like the deployment case) and
>       encourage authors to migrate to them
>     * could run the post-commit hook in "git am", too



>  B. stop running the post-commit hook in rebase

AND sometimes in both cherry-pick and git-revert, depending on the
number of commit(s) picked/reverted (see below).

Also, even if we go this route, I think the post-commit hook should be
added to git-merge whenever it creates a merge commit.

>     Advantages:
>     * makes --am and --merge consistent with minimal user impact

...and also makes --interactive and --exec and other cases consistent too.

>     Disadvantages:
>     * meaning of the post-commit hook remains a muddle

Why?  "Commands which create no more than one commit (git-commit,
git-merge, maybe single-commit git-revert or git-cherry-pick) call
post-commit, commands which create several commits derived from others
(git-am, git-rebase, git-cherry-pick, sometimes git-revert ) call
post-rewrite instead for performance reasons" (with the standard
exception for fast-import; also, git-merge could probably call
post-rewrite in fast-forward cases since no new commit is created to
call post-commit on).

Or we could just say that commands which can create multiple commits
(cherry-pick & revert) only call post-rewrite even in cases where they
are only called with one commit (since am and rebase can also be
called on just one commit).

>     * in particular, "git am" and "git rebase" would not be consistent
>       with "git cherry-pick"

Yeah, I'd rather not introduce more inconsistencies; we should pick a
rule and enforce it universally.  Thus, I'd say option B would
probably be thought of as the "always creates at most one commit" vs.
"creates multiple commits" split for post-commit vs. post-rewrite.

>     Mitigations:
>     * could provide new hooks for people to migrate to to replace that
>       muddle
>
>  C. stop running the post-commit hook in rebase --merge or commit --amend
>
>     Advantages:
>     * produces a consistent definition of post-commit ("it's about new
>       commits only")

But cherry-pick never creates "new" commits if commit --amend doesn't,
so we'd also want to turn the post-commit hook off for cherry-pick,
right?  And we'd want to turn post-commit on for git-merge, at least
for non-fast-forward cases since those create new commits.

>     * hook authors get the same expressiveness using the post-rewrite hook

Isn't this also an advantage for case B?  Any reason it was left off up there?

>     Disadvantages:
>     * the change to historical "git commit --amend" behavior is likely
>       to be surprising

That is certainly one issue, but I'd say this case is riddled with
problems and is the most muddled of all.  Once you change git commit
--amend behavior because it's about *new* commits only then you've got
a huge can of worms from rebase -i:

For interactive rebases, we have to avoid the post-commit hook for
anything that is a pick, but if they break or edit and insert new
commits then we have to call the post-commit hook for those.  If the
rebase stops due to a merge conflict, then the next commit created
needs to avoid the post-commit hook.  If they pick to squash or fixup
commits, then we have to deploy rename/break detection to determine
whether the commit is "new" or not and thus whether the post-commit
hook should be triggered for it.  Actually, maybe we need the
rename/break-detection logic when the rebase stops at a conflict too
due to user edits.  And then we start getting into questions about
whether the normal heuristics for rename/break-detection apply or if
"new-ness" should have its own set of heuristics...

Also,  I can't tell if a reverted commit count as "new" or not.  Even
if it does, what about the case of a reverted revert, or higher order
iterations of reverts (which I see occasionally)?

Does this definition mean we should use the git-cherry machinery on
any new commits to search for "newness" (maybe even with an extension
to search across all branches) before we decide whether to call the
post-commit hook?

I think case C is opening up a pandora's box of craziness.

>     Mitigations:
>     * could go through the warn, opt-in config, opt-out config cycle
>
> Any bits I've missed?
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan


I think it was useful to phrase it this way and list the various
advantages, disadvantages, and mitigations; thanks.

Is there anything I've missed in my additional details?  Anything
sound crazy (beyond what I said I think case C leads to)?


Elijah

  reply index

Thread overview: 161+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-12-20 17:09 [PATCH 00/15] rebase: make the default backend configurable Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 01/15] rebase: extend the options for handling of empty commits Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 21:29   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-21  0:32     ` Elijah Newren
2019-12-21 18:52       ` Elijah Newren
2019-12-21 23:49       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 02/15] t3406: simplify an already simple test Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 03/15] rebase, sequencer: remove the broken GIT_QUIET handling Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 21:34   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 04/15] rebase: make sure to pass along the quiet flag to the sequencer Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 05/15] rebase: fix handling of restrict_revision Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 21:37   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 06/15] t3432: make these tests work with either am or merge backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-22  5:11   ` Denton Liu
2019-12-23 17:17     ` Elijah Newren
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 07/15] rebase: allow more types of rebases to fast-forward Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 08/15] git-rebase.txt: add more details about behavioral differences of backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 09/15] rebase: move incompatibility checks between backend options a bit earlier Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 10/15] rebase: add an --am option Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 11/15] contrib: change the prompt for am-based rebases Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 23:07   ` SZEDER Gábor
2019-12-21  0:17     ` Elijah Newren
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 12/15] rebase tests: mark tests specific to the am-backend with --am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 13/15] rebase tests: repeat some tests using the merge backend instead of am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 14/15] rebase: make the backend configurable via config setting Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 17:09 ` [PATCH 15/15] rebase: change the default backend from "am" to "merge" Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-20 18:51 ` [PATCH 00/15] rebase: make the default backend configurable Alban Gruin
2019-12-20 18:55   ` Elijah Newren
2019-12-23 18:49 ` [PATCH v2 " Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 01/15] rebase: extend the options for handling of empty commits Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 02/15] t3406: simplify an already simple test Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 03/15] rebase, sequencer: remove the broken GIT_QUIET handling Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 04/15] rebase: make sure to pass along the quiet flag to the sequencer Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 05/15] rebase: fix handling of restrict_revision Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 06/15] t3432: make these tests work with either am or merge backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 07/15] rebase: allow more types of rebases to fast-forward Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 08/15] git-rebase.txt: add more details about behavioral differences of backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 09/15] rebase: move incompatibility checks between backend options a bit earlier Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 10/15] rebase: add an --am option Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 11/15] contrib: change the prompt for interactive-based rebases Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 22:00     ` Denton Liu
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 12/15] rebase tests: mark tests specific to the am-backend with --am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 13/15] rebase tests: repeat some tests using the merge backend instead of am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 14/15] rebase: make the backend configurable via config setting Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-23 18:49   ` [PATCH v2 15/15] rebase: change the default backend from "am" to "merge" Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54   ` [PATCH v3 00/15] rebase: make the default backend configurable Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 01/15] rebase: extend the options for handling of empty commits Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-07 14:37       ` Phillip Wood
2020-01-07 19:15         ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-08 14:27           ` Phillip Wood
2020-01-09 21:32             ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 02/15] t3406: simplify an already simple test Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 03/15] rebase, sequencer: remove the broken GIT_QUIET handling Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 04/15] rebase: make sure to pass along the quiet flag to the sequencer Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 05/15] rebase: fix handling of restrict_revision Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 06/15] t3432: make these tests work with either am or merge backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 07/15] rebase: allow more types of rebases to fast-forward Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 08/15] git-rebase.txt: add more details about behavioral differences of backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 09/15] rebase: move incompatibility checks between backend options a bit earlier Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 10/15] rebase: add an --am option Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-07 14:43       ` Phillip Wood
2020-01-07 19:26         ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-07 20:11           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-08 14:32             ` Phillip Wood
2020-01-08 17:18               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-08 18:55                 ` Phillip Wood
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 11/15] git-prompt: change the prompt for interactive-based rebases Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 12/15] rebase tests: mark tests specific to the am-backend with --am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 13/15] rebase tests: repeat some tests using the merge backend instead of am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 14/15] rebase: make the backend configurable via config setting Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2019-12-24 19:54     ` [PATCH v3 15/15] rebase: change the default backend from "am" to "merge" Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-10 23:14       ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-01-11  1:16         ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-11 14:41           ` Phillip Wood
2020-01-12 17:59             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-01-16  6:32               ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-16  7:58                 ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-01-16  8:06                   ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-01-16 16:18                     ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-16 20:35                       ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-01-16 21:30                         ` Elijah Newren [this message]
2020-01-16 22:39                           ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-01-16 23:19                             ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-16 23:25                           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-17  0:51                             ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-16 15:35                   ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-16 20:05                   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-16 10:48                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-01-12 21:23             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-15 19:50             ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-01-15 21:59               ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-16  6:14     ` [PATCH v4 00/19] rebase: make the default backend configurable Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 01/19] git-rebase.txt: update description of --allow-empty-message Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-09 15:59         ` Phillip Wood
2020-02-13 18:35           ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 02/19] t3404: directly test the behavior of interest Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 03/19] rebase (interactive-backend): make --keep-empty the default Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-09 15:59         ` Phillip Wood
2020-02-13 18:52           ` Elijah Newren
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 04/19] rebase (interactive-backend): fix handling of commits that become empty Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-10 14:27         ` Phillip Wood
2020-02-13 18:54           ` Elijah Newren
2020-02-16 14:46             ` Phillip Wood
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 05/19] t3406: simplify an already simple test Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 06/19] rebase, sequencer: remove the broken GIT_QUIET handling Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 07/19] rebase: make sure to pass along the quiet flag to the sequencer Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 08/19] rebase: fix handling of restrict_revision Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 09/19] t3432: make these tests work with either am or merge backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 10/19] rebase: allow more types of rebases to fast-forward Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 11/19] git-rebase.txt: add more details about behavioral differences of backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 12/19] rebase: move incompatibility checks between backend options a bit earlier Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 13/19] rebase: add an --am option Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 14/19] git-prompt: change the prompt for interactive-based rebases Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 15/19] rebase: drop '-i' from the reflog " Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 16/19] rebase tests: mark tests specific to the am-backend with --am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 17/19] rebase tests: repeat some tests using the merge backend instead of am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 18/19] rebase: make the backend configurable via config setting Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-16  6:14       ` [PATCH v4 19/19] rebase: change the default backend from "am" to "merge" Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-01-17 16:58       ` [PATCH v4 00/19] rebase: make the default backend configurable Phillip Wood
2020-02-05 21:06         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-05 22:38           ` Elijah Newren
2020-02-15 21:36       ` [PATCH v5 00/20] rebase: make the default backend configurable and change the default Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 01/20] git-rebase.txt: update description of --allow-empty-message Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 02/20] t3404: directly test the behavior of interest Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 03/20] rebase (interactive-backend): make --keep-empty the default Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 04/20] rebase (interactive-backend): fix handling of commits that become empty Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 05/20] t3406: simplify an already simple test Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 06/20] rebase, sequencer: remove the broken GIT_QUIET handling Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 07/20] rebase: make sure to pass along the quiet flag to the sequencer Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 08/20] rebase: fix handling of restrict_revision Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 09/20] t3432: make these tests work with either am or merge backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 10/20] rebase: allow more types of rebases to fast-forward Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 11/20] git-rebase.txt: add more details about behavioral differences of backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 12/20] rebase: move incompatibility checks between backend options a bit earlier Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 13/20] rebase: add an --am option Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 14/20] git-prompt: change the prompt for interactive-based rebases Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 15/20] rebase: drop '-i' from the reflog " Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 16/20] rebase tests: mark tests specific to the am-backend with --am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 17/20] rebase tests: repeat some tests using the merge backend instead of am Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 18/20] rebase: make the backend configurable via config setting Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 19/20] rebase: change the default backend from "am" to "merge" Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-02-15 21:36         ` [PATCH v5 20/20] rebase: rename the two primary rebase backends Elijah Newren via GitGitGadget
2020-03-12 15:13           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-03-12 16:33             ` Elijah Newren
2020-03-12 17:55               ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-03-12 18:39                 ` Elijah Newren
2020-03-12 18:46                   ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-03-12 19:31                     ` Elijah Newren
2020-03-17  2:58                       ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-03-17  4:45                         ` Elijah Newren
2020-03-12 19:54                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-12 19:07               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-12 19:12                 ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-03-12 19:12               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-12 19:29                 ` Elijah Newren
2020-03-12 20:37                   ` Jeff King
2020-03-12 21:27                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-12 22:06                       ` Elijah Newren
2020-03-13  0:04                         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-12 23:30                       ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-02-16 15:01         ` [PATCH v5 00/20] rebase: make the default backend configurable and change the default Phillip Wood

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Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://nntp.lore.kernel.org/org.kernel.vger.git


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git