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* [RFC] fixed files
@ 2020-02-08 13:28 Pavel Begunkov
  2020-02-08 20:15 ` Jens Axboe
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Begunkov @ 2020-02-08 13:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe, io-uring

Hi,

As you remember, splice(2) needs two fds, and it's a bit of a pain
finding a place for the second REQ_F_FIXED_FILE flag. So, I was
thinking, can we use the last (i.e. sign) bit to mark an fd as fixed? A
lot of userspace programs consider any negative result of open() as an
error, so it's more or less safe to reuse it.

e.g.
fill_sqe(fd) // is not fixed
fill_sqe(buf_idx | LAST_BIT) // fixed file


-- 
Pavel Begunkov

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] fixed files
  2020-02-08 13:28 [RFC] fixed files Pavel Begunkov
@ 2020-02-08 20:15 ` Jens Axboe
  2020-02-09 12:18   ` Pavel Begunkov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2020-02-08 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Begunkov, io-uring

On 2/8/20 6:28 AM, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> As you remember, splice(2) needs two fds, and it's a bit of a pain
> finding a place for the second REQ_F_FIXED_FILE flag. So, I was
> thinking, can we use the last (i.e. sign) bit to mark an fd as fixed? A
> lot of userspace programs consider any negative result of open() as an
> error, so it's more or less safe to reuse it.
> 
> e.g.
> fill_sqe(fd) // is not fixed
> fill_sqe(buf_idx | LAST_BIT) // fixed file

Right now we only support 1024 fixed buffers anyway, so we do have some
space there. If we steal a bit, it'll still allow us to expand to 32K of
fixed buffers in the future.

It's a bit iffy, but like you, I don't immediately see a better way to
do this that doesn't include stealing an IOSQE bit or adding a special
splice flag for it. Might still prefer the latter, to be honest...

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] fixed files
  2020-02-08 20:15 ` Jens Axboe
@ 2020-02-09 12:18   ` Pavel Begunkov
  2020-02-09 17:04     ` Jens Axboe
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Begunkov @ 2020-02-09 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe, io-uring

On 2/8/2020 11:15 PM, Jens Axboe wrote:
> On 2/8/20 6:28 AM, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As you remember, splice(2) needs two fds, and it's a bit of a pain
>> finding a place for the second REQ_F_FIXED_FILE flag. So, I was
>> thinking, can we use the last (i.e. sign) bit to mark an fd as fixed? A
>> lot of userspace programs consider any negative result of open() as an
>> error, so it's more or less safe to reuse it.
>>
>> e.g.
>> fill_sqe(fd) // is not fixed
>> fill_sqe(buf_idx | LAST_BIT) // fixed file
> 
> Right now we only support 1024 fixed buffers anyway, so we do have some
> space there. If we steal a bit, it'll still allow us to expand to 32K of
> fixed buffers in the future.
> 
> It's a bit iffy, but like you, I don't immediately see a better way to
> do this that doesn't include stealing an IOSQE bit or adding a special
> splice flag for it. Might still prefer the latter, to be honest...

"fixed" is clearly a per-{fd,buffer} attribute. If I'd now design it
from the scratch, I would store fixed-resource index in the same field
as fds and addr (but not separate @buf_index), and have per-resource
switch-flag somewhere. And then I see 2 convenient ways:

1. encode the fixed bit into addr and fd, as supposed above.

2. Add N generic IOSQE_FIXED bits (i.e. IOSQE_FIXED_RESOURSE{1,2,...}),
which correspond to resources (fd, buffer, etc) in order of occurrence
in an sqe. I wouldn't expect having more than 3-4 flags.

And then IORING_OP_{READ,WRITE}_FIXED would have been the same opcode as
the corresponding non-fixed version. But backward-compatibility is a pain.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] fixed files
  2020-02-09 12:18   ` Pavel Begunkov
@ 2020-02-09 17:04     ` Jens Axboe
  2020-02-09 17:53       ` Pavel Begunkov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2020-02-09 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Begunkov, io-uring

On 2/9/20 5:18 AM, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> On 2/8/2020 11:15 PM, Jens Axboe wrote:
>> On 2/8/20 6:28 AM, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> As you remember, splice(2) needs two fds, and it's a bit of a pain
>>> finding a place for the second REQ_F_FIXED_FILE flag. So, I was
>>> thinking, can we use the last (i.e. sign) bit to mark an fd as fixed? A
>>> lot of userspace programs consider any negative result of open() as an
>>> error, so it's more or less safe to reuse it.
>>>
>>> e.g.
>>> fill_sqe(fd) // is not fixed
>>> fill_sqe(buf_idx | LAST_BIT) // fixed file
>>
>> Right now we only support 1024 fixed buffers anyway, so we do have some
>> space there. If we steal a bit, it'll still allow us to expand to 32K of
>> fixed buffers in the future.
>>
>> It's a bit iffy, but like you, I don't immediately see a better way to
>> do this that doesn't include stealing an IOSQE bit or adding a special
>> splice flag for it. Might still prefer the latter, to be honest...
> 
> "fixed" is clearly a per-{fd,buffer} attribute. If I'd now design it
> from the scratch, I would store fixed-resource index in the same field
> as fds and addr (but not separate @buf_index), and have per-resource
> switch-flag somewhere. And then I see 2 convenient ways:
> 
> 1. encode the fixed bit into addr and fd, as supposed above.
> 
> 2. Add N generic IOSQE_FIXED bits (i.e. IOSQE_FIXED_RESOURSE{1,2,...}),
> which correspond to resources (fd, buffer, etc) in order of occurrence
> in an sqe. I wouldn't expect having more than 3-4 flags.
> 
> And then IORING_OP_{READ,WRITE}_FIXED would have been the same opcode as
> the corresponding non-fixed version. But backward-compatibility is a pain.

It's always much easier looking back, hindsight is much clearer. I'd also
expand the sqe flags bits to 16 at least, but oh well.

I do think that for this particular case we add a SPLICE_F_FD1_FIXED and
ditto for fd2, and just have the direct splice/vmsplice syscalls reject
them as invalid. Both splice and vmsplice -EINVAL for unknown flags,
which makes this possible.

That seems cleaner to me than trying to shoe-horn this information into
the sqe itself, and it can easily be done as a prep patch to adding
splice support.

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] fixed files
  2020-02-09 17:04     ` Jens Axboe
@ 2020-02-09 17:53       ` Pavel Begunkov
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Begunkov @ 2020-02-09 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe, io-uring

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On 09/02/2020 20:04, Jens Axboe wrote:
> On 2/9/20 5:18 AM, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>> On 2/8/2020 11:15 PM, Jens Axboe wrote:
>>> On 2/8/20 6:28 AM, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> As you remember, splice(2) needs two fds, and it's a bit of a pain
>>>> finding a place for the second REQ_F_FIXED_FILE flag. So, I was
>>>> thinking, can we use the last (i.e. sign) bit to mark an fd as fixed? A
>>>> lot of userspace programs consider any negative result of open() as an
>>>> error, so it's more or less safe to reuse it.
>>>>
>>>> e.g.
>>>> fill_sqe(fd) // is not fixed
>>>> fill_sqe(buf_idx | LAST_BIT) // fixed file
>>>
>>> Right now we only support 1024 fixed buffers anyway, so we do have some
>>> space there. If we steal a bit, it'll still allow us to expand to 32K of
>>> fixed buffers in the future.
>>>
>>> It's a bit iffy, but like you, I don't immediately see a better way to
>>> do this that doesn't include stealing an IOSQE bit or adding a special
>>> splice flag for it. Might still prefer the latter, to be honest...
>>
>> "fixed" is clearly a per-{fd,buffer} attribute. If I'd now design it
>> from the scratch, I would store fixed-resource index in the same field
>> as fds and addr (but not separate @buf_index), and have per-resource
>> switch-flag somewhere. And then I see 2 convenient ways:
>>
>> 1. encode the fixed bit into addr and fd, as supposed above.
>>
>> 2. Add N generic IOSQE_FIXED bits (i.e. IOSQE_FIXED_RESOURSE{1,2,...}),
>> which correspond to resources (fd, buffer, etc) in order of occurrence
>> in an sqe. I wouldn't expect having more than 3-4 flags.
>>
>> And then IORING_OP_{READ,WRITE}_FIXED would have been the same opcode as
>> the corresponding non-fixed version. But backward-compatibility is a pain.
> 
> It's always much easier looking back, hindsight is much clearer. I'd also
> expand the sqe flags bits to 16 at least, but oh well.

Totally agree. And I didn't meant I could have done better

BTW, we can extend sqe flags into free bits at the end of sqe, would need a bit
of packing/unpacking though.
e.g. int flags = sqe1_flags | (sqe2_flags << 8)

> I do think that for this particular case we add a SPLICE_F_FD1_FIXED and
> ditto for fd2, and just have the direct splice/vmsplice syscalls reject
> them as invalid. Both splice and vmsplice -EINVAL for unknown flags,
> which makes this possible.

Yes, I remember that from the splice thread.

> That seems cleaner to me than trying to shoe-horn this information into
> the sqe itself, and it can easily be done as a prep patch to adding
> splice support.
> 

-- 
Pavel Begunkov


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

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Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2020-02-08 13:28 [RFC] fixed files Pavel Begunkov
2020-02-08 20:15 ` Jens Axboe
2020-02-09 12:18   ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-02-09 17:04     ` Jens Axboe
2020-02-09 17:53       ` Pavel Begunkov

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