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From: Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Cc: Roland Dreier <roland@kernel.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>,
	ksummit@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 18:03:09 +0000
Message-ID: <YIG6XaUrdt6jUezJ@zeniv-ca.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210422055948.GA4171859@infradead.org>

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 06:59:48AM +0100, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:32:33PM -0700, Roland Dreier wrote:
> > I also think there does need to be a strong sanction against this UMN
> > research group, since we need to make sure there are strong incentives
> > against wasting everyone's time with stunts like this.  Hopefully on
> > the academic side it can be made clear that this is not ethical
> > research - for example, why did IEEE think this was an acceptable
> > paper?
> 
> I wholeheartedly disagree.  Demonstrating this kind of "attack" has
> been long overdue, and kicked off a very important discussion.  Even
> more so as in this area malice is almost indistinguishable from normal
> incompetence.  I think they deserve a medel of honor.

Demonstrating this kind of attack would be very useful, if they bothered to
provide the raw data and their protocol.

They'd done neither, AFAICS.  There's no way to actually look at how the
submissions went, timings, etc.  We are offered what could (very generously)
be called aggregate stats illustrating the problems, along with bloody
worthless suggestions of improvements.  Use of the technics in question
is not limited to introducing UAF bugs; it's certainly possible to use
a (real or not) UAF bug as an excuse to get in something designed _not_
to be caught by any of their suggested scler^Whardening patches, etc.

There certainly are very real problems with review process, and examining
their data might provide useful insights - had any of that data been
given.

There are tons of problems with their paper, and not in the ethics part.

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 153+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-04-21 18:35 James Bottomley
2021-04-21 18:46 ` Christian Borntraeger
2021-04-21 18:51 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2021-04-21 18:53   ` Christian Borntraeger
2021-04-21 19:06 ` Al Viro
2021-04-21 19:14 ` James Bottomley
2021-04-21 19:22 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-21 19:26   ` Kees Cook
2021-04-21 19:32   ` Roland Dreier
2021-04-21 19:55     ` Julia Lawall
2021-04-21 20:28       ` Stephen Hemminger
2021-04-21 20:37         ` Julia Lawall
2021-04-21 20:45           ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-21 20:50             ` Julia Lawall
2021-04-21 21:03               ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-21 21:37           ` James Morris
2021-04-22  7:34             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-04-22  7:51               ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22  8:45                 ` Christian Brauner
2021-04-22 15:27                   ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22  9:39                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22  9:55               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 12:01                 ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 12:26                   ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 12:35                     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 12:52                       ` Hans Verkuil
2021-04-22 13:33                       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 13:42                         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 12:18                 ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 15:38                   ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-23  9:06                     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23 17:17                       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-23 22:41                       ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22  5:59     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-22  6:28       ` Tomasz Figa
2021-04-22  7:05         ` Al Viro
2021-04-22  7:46           ` Al Viro
2021-04-22  7:06         ` H. Peter Anvin
2021-04-22  7:05       ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22 16:05       ` Roland Dreier
2021-04-22 16:24         ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2021-04-22 18:03       ` Al Viro [this message]
2021-04-22 22:35         ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 22:53           ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-20 16:26             ` Kernel sustainability (was Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches) Daniel Vetter
2021-04-21 19:30 ` [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches Jiri Kosina
2021-04-21 20:28   ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-21 22:18     ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-21 23:17       ` Guenter Roeck
2021-04-21 23:21         ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-21 19:47 ` Dan Carpenter
2021-04-22  9:34   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22  9:59     ` Johannes Berg
2021-04-22 10:52       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 12:16         ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22 13:41           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 20:15       ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-04-23  0:09         ` Randy Dunlap
2021-04-21 19:49 ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-04-22  2:05 ` Martin K. Petersen
2021-04-22  3:04   ` Joe Perches
2021-04-22 10:13     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 12:07     ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 16:42     ` Bart Van Assche
2021-04-22 17:58       ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22  4:21 ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22  4:56   ` Al Viro
2021-04-22  5:52     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22  6:05     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-22  6:03   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-22  6:18     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22  9:20   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 11:34     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:22       ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 13:47         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:51           ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 14:12         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 14:51           ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:29       ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 13:58         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 14:20         ` Rob Herring
2021-04-23  6:04           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23  6:46             ` Joe Perches
2021-04-23  7:13               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23  7:20                 ` [PATCH RFC] scripts: add a script for sending patches Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23 14:52                 ` Better tools for sending patches (was: Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches) Doug Anderson
2021-04-23 16:03                   ` Mark Brown
2021-04-23 17:12                     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-26 23:50                       ` Simon Glass
2021-04-22 12:53     ` [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 13:08       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:27         ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 13:41           ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 16:28           ` Serge E. Hallyn
2021-04-22 17:56       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 18:05         ` backfilling threads with b4 (was: Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches) Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-23  7:19       ` [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches Greg KH
2021-04-23  7:31       ` Christian Brauner
2021-04-23 18:50         ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 12:40   ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 12:54     ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22 13:23       ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 15:19         ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 21:19           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 21:36             ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 22:39               ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-23  0:26                 ` Joe Perches
2021-04-23  6:15           ` Greg KH
2021-04-23  6:50             ` Dan Williams
2021-04-23  7:13             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-04-23 14:41               ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-23  9:12             ` Michal Hocko
2021-04-22 14:51       ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-04-22 15:14         ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22 15:17           ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-04-22 15:35             ` Al Viro
2021-04-22 15:32           ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22 10:35 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 11:03   ` Sudip Mukherjee
2021-04-22 14:00     ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 14:07       ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22 15:31         ` Sudip Mukherjee
2021-04-22 21:33           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 20:28     ` Andrew Morton
2021-04-22 20:46       ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 12:32   ` Martin K. Petersen
2021-04-22 15:11     ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-04-22 15:28     ` James Bottomley
2021-04-22 15:35       ` Johannes Berg
2021-04-22 15:36       ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 15:40         ` James Bottomley
2021-04-23  9:27         ` Dan Carpenter
2021-04-22 13:24   ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 14:31     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 15:34   ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22 15:42     ` James Bottomley
2021-04-22 15:48       ` James Bottomley
2021-04-22 15:52         ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 16:08           ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22 16:13           ` Jan Kara
2021-04-22 17:04             ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 17:08             ` Martin K. Petersen
2021-04-23 11:16               ` Jan Kara
2021-04-23 12:57                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23  7:58           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23 10:54             ` Greg KH
2021-04-23 17:09             ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 16:23         ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 16:38       ` Bart Van Assche
2021-04-22 16:57         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 18:03         ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22 21:26           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 21:36             ` Jiri Kosina

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