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From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
To: Nick Kralevich <nnk@google.com>
Cc: Lokesh Gidra <lokeshgidra@google.com>,
	Jeffrey Vander Stoep <jeffv@google.com>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>,
	Iurii Zaikin <yzaikin@google.com>,
	Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab+samsung@kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andy Shevchenko <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	Sebastian Andrzej Siewior <bigeasy@linutronix.de>,
	Peter Xu <peterx@redhat.com>, Mike Rapoport <rppt@linux.ibm.com>,
	Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>, Shaohua Li <shli@fb.com>,
	linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux FS Devel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Tim Murray <timmurray@google.com>,
	Minchan Kim <minchan@google.com>,
	Sandeep Patil <sspatil@google.com>,
	kernel@android.com, Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>,
	Kalesh Singh <kaleshsingh@google.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] Add a new sysctl knob: unprivileged_userfaultfd_user_mode_only
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:40:07 -0400
Message-ID: <20200724093852-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFJ0LnGfrzvVgtyZQ+UqRM6F3M7iXOhTkUBTc+9sV+=RrFntyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 05:13:28PM -0700, Nick Kralevich wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 10:30 AM Lokesh Gidra <lokeshgidra@google.com> wrote:
> > From the discussion so far it seems that there is a consensus that
> > patch 1/2 in this series should be upstreamed in any case. Is there
> > anything that is pending on that patch?
> 
> That's my reading of this thread too.
> 
> > > > Unless I'm mistaken that you can already enforce bit 1 of the second
> > > > parameter of the userfaultfd syscall to be set with seccomp-bpf, this
> > > > would be more a question to the Android userland team.
> > > >
> > > > The question would be: does it ever happen that a seccomp filter isn't
> > > > already applied to unprivileged software running without
> > > > SYS_CAP_PTRACE capability?
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > > Android uses selinux as our primary sandboxing mechanism. We do use
> > > seccomp on a few processes, but we have found that it has a
> > > surprisingly high performance cost [1] on arm64 devices so turning it
> > > on system wide is not a good option.
> > >
> > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module/202006011116.3F7109A@keescook/T/#m82ace19539ac595682affabdf652c0ffa5d27dad
> 
> As Jeff mentioned, seccomp is used strategically on Android, but is
> not applied to all processes. It's too expensive and impractical when
> simpler implementations (such as this sysctl) can exist. It's also
> significantly simpler to test a sysctl value for correctness as
> opposed to a seccomp filter.

Given that selinux is already used system-wide on Android, what is wrong
with using selinux to control userfaultfd as opposed to seccomp?


> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If answer is "no" the behavior of the new sysctl in patch 2/2 (in
> > > > subject) should be enforceable with minor changes to the BPF
> > > > assembly. Otherwise it'd require more changes.
> 
> It would be good to understand what these changes are.
> 
> > > > Why exactly is it preferable to enlarge the surface of attack of the
> > > > kernel and take the risk there is a real bug in userfaultfd code (not
> > > > just a facilitation of exploiting some other kernel bug) that leads to
> > > > a privilege escalation, when you still break 99% of userfaultfd users,
> > > > if you set with option "2"?
> 
> I can see your point if you think about the feature as a whole.
> However, distributions (such as Android) have specialized knowledge of
> their security environments, and may not want to support the typical
> usages of userfaultfd. For such distributions, providing a mechanism
> to prevent userfaultfd from being useful as an exploit primitive,
> while still allowing the very limited use of userfaultfd for userspace
> faults only, is desirable. Distributions shouldn't be forced into
> supporting 100% of the use cases envisioned by userfaultfd when their
> needs may be more specialized, and this sysctl knob empowers
> distributions to make this choice for themselves.
> 
> > > > Is the system owner really going to purely run on his systems CRIU
> > > > postcopy live migration (which already runs with CAP_SYS_PTRACE) and
> > > > nothing else that could break?
> 
> This is a great example of a capability which a distribution may not
> want to support, due to distribution specific security policies.
> 
> > > >
> > > > Option "2" to me looks with a single possible user, and incidentally
> > > > this single user can already enforce model "2" by only tweaking its
> > > > seccomp-bpf filters without applying 2/2. It'd be a bug if android
> > > > apps runs unprotected by seccomp regardless of 2/2.
> 
> Can you elaborate on what bug is present by processes being
> unprotected by seccomp?
> 
> Seccomp cannot be universally applied on Android due to previously
> mentioned performance concerns. Seccomp is used in Android primarily
> as a tool to enforce the list of allowed syscalls, so that such
> syscalls can be audited before being included as part of the Android
> API.
> 
> -- Nick
> 
> -- 
> Nick Kralevich | nnk@google.com


  reply index

Thread overview: 29+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-04-23  0:26 [PATCH 0/2] Control over userfaultfd kernel-fault handling Daniel Colascione
2020-04-23  0:26 ` [PATCH 1/2] Add UFFD_USER_MODE_ONLY Daniel Colascione
2020-07-24 14:28   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2020-07-24 14:46     ` Lokesh Gidra
2020-07-26 10:09       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2020-04-23  0:26 ` [PATCH 2/2] Add a new sysctl knob: unprivileged_userfaultfd_user_mode_only Daniel Colascione
2020-05-06 19:38   ` Peter Xu
2020-05-07 19:15     ` Jonathan Corbet
2020-05-20  4:06       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2020-05-08 16:52   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2020-05-08 16:54     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2020-05-20  4:59       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2020-05-20 18:03         ` Kees Cook
2020-05-20 19:48           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2020-05-20 19:51             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2020-05-20 20:17               ` Lokesh Gidra
2020-05-20 21:16                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2020-07-17 12:57                   ` Jeffrey Vander Stoep
2020-07-23 17:30                     ` Lokesh Gidra
2020-07-24  0:13                       ` Nick Kralevich
2020-07-24 13:40                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin [this message]
2020-08-06  0:43                           ` Nick Kralevich
2020-08-06  5:44                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2020-08-17 22:11                               ` Lokesh Gidra
2020-09-04  3:34                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2020-09-05  0:36                                   ` Lokesh Gidra
2020-09-19 18:14                                     ` Nick Kralevich
2020-07-24 14:01 ` [PATCH 0/2] Control over userfaultfd kernel-fault handling Michael S. Tsirkin
2020-07-24 14:41   ` Lokesh Gidra

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