[linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Heinz Mauelshagen]

Hi everybody!

Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.

Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask 
everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.

Send him mails please 8*)

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
Heinz
--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
                                                 Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
                                                 64205 Darmstadt
mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
                                                 +49 6151 886-425
                                                          FAX-386
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Marcus Ruehmann]

Hi Linus,

please put the LVM into 2.4, it is really usefull and working fine.
People with need for lots of disk space (database people) are needing
it.

Features like this are strongly needed to make Linux ready for the
enterprise!

Greetings

Marcus

Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
> 
> Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask
> everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.
> 
> Send him mails please 8*)
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Heinz
> --
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 
> Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
>                                                  Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
> Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
> Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
>                                                  64205 Darmstadt
> mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
>                                                  +49 6151 886-425
>                                                           FAX-386
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[James Pattinson]

I would also like to register my interest - I believe this feature should
be in the stock kernel. It is proving to be incredible useful for me and
many others!

Cheers

James

On Sat, 21 Aug 1999, Marcus Ruehmann wrote:

> Hi Linus,
> 
> please put the LVM into 2.4, it is really usefull and working fine.
> People with need for lots of disk space (database people) are needing
> it.
> 
> Features like this are strongly needed to make Linux ready for the
> enterprise!
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Marcus
> 
> Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> > 
> > Hi everybody!
> > 
> > Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> > into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
> > 
> > Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask
> > everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.
> > 
> > Send him mails please 8*)
> > 
> > Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > Heinz
> > --
> > 
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > 
> > Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
> >                                                  Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
> > Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
> > Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
> >                                                  64205 Darmstadt
> > mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
> >                                                  +49 6151 886-425
> >                                                           FAX-386
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Shane Shrybman]

Hi,

Has there been any further discussion or a resolution on how to "cast our
votes" for lvm to be included in 2.[34] ?

Should I send a message to Linus asking him to include it ? 

Should I get everyone I know who uses or wants use lvm with linux to also
send Linus a note ?

Shane

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Jonny B.]

Sorry if you think this is dumb, but if I were Linus, I would like one 
note with a couple of reasons why LVM should be in the kernel and then a 
list of names of the people who support that position.  (Kinda like a 
petition.)

 brassow

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are more than 1,000 chemicals in coffee; of those, 26 have
been tested, of the 26, 1/2 cause cancer in laboratory rats.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Shane Shrybman wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has there been any further discussion or a resolution on how to "cast our
> votes" for lvm to be included in 2.[34] ?
> 
> Should I send a message to Linus asking him to include it ? 
> 
> Should I get everyone I know who uses or wants use lvm with linux to also
> send Linus a note ?
> 
> Shane
> 

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!

[Shane Shrybman]

On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Jonny B. wrote:

> Sorry if you think this is dumb, but if I were Linus, I would like one 
> note with a couple of reasons why LVM should be in the kernel and then a 
> list of names of the people who support that position.  (Kinda like a 
> petition.)
> 
>  brassow
> 

I can not think of anything better. 

Comments?

Shane

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Luca Berra]

On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 03:28:45PM -0500, Jonny B. wrote:
> Sorry if you think this is dumb, but if I were Linus, I would like one 
> note with a couple of reasons why LVM should be in the kernel and then a 
> list of names of the people who support that position.  (Kinda like a 
> petition.)

This is exactly what i was thinking about!!!!

Regards,
L.

-- 
Luca Berra -- bluca@comedia.it
    Communications Media & Services S.r.l.

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Heinz Mauelshagen]

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has there been any further discussion or a resolution on how to "cast our
> votes" for lvm to be included in 2.[34] ?

I'm sorry, it has not.

But i'ld appreciate any ideas how to push LVM into the stock kernel.

> 
> Should I send a message to Linus asking him to include it ? 

As far as i understood Alan Cox, Linus wants to know, if many people
like to have the LVM in the stock kernel.

My idea just was: "let's send him mails to tell him 8*)"


Maybe there are much better ways.
I'm open to them.

> 
> Should I get everyone I know who uses or wants use lvm with linux to also
> send Linus a note ?
> 

Yes, please!

Kind regards,
Heinz

--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
                                                 Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
                                                 64205 Darmstadt
mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
                                                 +49 6151 886-425
                                                          FAX-386
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Ulrik De Bie]

> Hi Linus,
> 
> please put the LVM into 2.4, it is really usefull and working fine.
> People with need for lots of disk space (database people) are needing
> it.
> 
> Features like this are strongly needed to make Linux ready for the
> enterprise!
Once, there was an idea called partitions. People never considered
big hard disks, changing disk space needs etc. Now we still have
this same system, while a lot of unices already are using lvm-like
stuff.

I think lvm is the only good long term solution for the diskspace
problem, and a lot of people will be happy having it.

Kind regards,
Ulrik De Bie
winmute@atlantique.venturi.net

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[pamvdam]

On Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 10:39:30PM +0000, Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
> 
> Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask 
> everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.
> 
> Send him mails please 8*)

Will do so, but there might be still problems with LVM and the 2.3.14+
kernels. The bad_lvm_ptr and the Oops: lvm_request messages.

Now I'll bring my LVM wishes to Linus.

Best regards,

	Pascal


> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Heinz
> --
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 
> Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
>                                                  Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
> Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
> Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
>                                                  64205 Darmstadt
> mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
>                                                  +49 6151 886-425
>                                                           FAX-386
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Heinz Mauelshagen]

Hi Pascal,

saw your mail today concerned with writes beyond the end of the device,
Have seen this a couple of times before 8*(

It was a kernel problem in the block i/o layer these days not forced
by the LVM but brougt to the surface by the heavy i/o load LVM striped 
LVs pushed to the system.

Do you see the same trouble with LVM 0.7 in older kernel releases?

Regards,
Heinz

> 
> On Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 10:39:30PM +0000, Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> > 
> > Hi everybody!
> > 
> > Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> > into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
> > 
> > Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask 
> > everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.
> > 
> > Send him mails please 8*)
> 
> Will do so, but there might be still problems with LVM and the 2.3.14+
> kernels. The bad_lvm_ptr and the Oops: lvm_request messages.
> 
> Now I'll bring my LVM wishes to Linus.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 	Pascal
> 
> 
> > 
> > Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > Heinz
> > --
> > 
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > 
> > Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
> >                                                  Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
> > Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
> > Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
> >                                                  64205 Darmstadt
> > mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
> >                                                  +49 6151 886-425
> >                                                           FAX-386
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 


--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
                                                 Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
                                                 64205 Darmstadt
mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
                                                 +49 6151 886-425
                                                          FAX-386
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[pamvdam]

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 01:14:36PM +0000, Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> 
> Hi Pascal,
> 
> saw your mail today concerned with writes beyond the end of the device,
> Have seen this a couple of times before 8*(
> 
> It was a kernel problem in the block i/o layer these days not forced
> by the LVM but brougt to the surface by the heavy i/o load LVM striped 
> LVs pushed to the system.

It was a problem.... Mmmm. In 2.3.14 it still is.

> 
> Do you see the same trouble with LVM 0.7 in older kernel releases?

2.3.13 and the 2.3.14-pre release gave the same problem. I don't
know about earlier releases. Shall we bring this up to the linux kernel list? The MD users should have noticed it too. Indeed there was VERY heavy I/O
on the stripes.

BTW: 2.3.14 needed a little extra patch wrt the 2.3.13 LVM patch. Some-
body will have ported it too, if not say so, and I'll mail you the diff.

Best regards,

	Pascal





> 
> Regards,
> Heinz

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Heinz Mauelshagen]

Hi Pascal and all 8*)

> 
> On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 01:14:36PM +0000, Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Pascal,
> > 
> > saw your mail today concerned with writes beyond the end of the device,
> > Have seen this a couple of times before 8*(
> > 
> > It was a kernel problem in the block i/o layer these days not forced
> > by the LVM but brougt to the surface by the heavy i/o load LVM striped 
> > LVs pushed to the system.
> 
> It was a problem.... Mmmm. In 2.3.14 it still is.
> 
> > 
> > Do you see the same trouble with LVM 0.7 in older kernel releases?
> 
> 2.3.13 and the 2.3.14-pre release gave the same problem. I don't
> know about earlier releases.

Oops, should have been more precise 8*)

I ment earlier versions because i've observed the 'beyond end of device'
behaviour with 2.3.13 by myself.

> Shall we bring this up to the linux kernel list?

Yes please.
Do it.

> The MD users should
> have noticed it too. Indeed there was VERY heavy I/O
> on the stripes.
> 
> BTW: 2.3.14 needed a little extra patch wrt the 2.3.13 LVM patch. Some-
> body will have ported it too, if not say so, and I'll mail you the diff.
> 
--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
                                                 Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
                                                 64205 Darmstadt
mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
                                                 +49 6151 886-425
                                                          FAX-386
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Klaus Strebel]

Hi Linus,

Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
So, you wanna hear from people who're using LVM on Linux? 

Here, we are! Let's get rid of that damned partitioning fuzz. With LVM i
actually only need three 'partitions' on my boot-drive: root, swap and
my physical volume of lvm. I can create, increase, shrink and drop now
logical volumes just to test new filesystems (is there any gfs guy on
the list? I use Antimatter Ant with patch 3 on a lv and it works great
now!) or other new software. Another evident thing for me is, that i can
use Oracle8's autoextension without fear to fill my root!

So, give everybody his LVM !

Thanks for your great work

Ciao
Klaus
-- 
Klaus Strebel
stb@ep-ag.com
EIGNER + PARTNER AG   - The Engineering Warehouse Company -
<http://www.ep-ag.com>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Luca Berra]

On Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 10:39:30PM +0000, Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
> 
> Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask 
> everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.
> 
> Send him mails please 8*)
> 
Heinz,

I agree with you that LVM should go into the mainstream kernel,
but i'd prefer a better method than flooding linus with emails
tho have this accomplished.

Regards,
Luca


-- 
Luca Berra -- bluca@comedia.it
    Communications Media & Services S.r.l.

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Marcus Ruehmann]

Hi,

Luca Berra wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 10:39:30PM +0000, Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> >
> > Hi everybody!
> >
> > Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> > into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
> >
> > Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask
> > everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.
> >
> > Send him mails please 8*)
> >
> Heinz,
> 
> I agree with you that LVM should go into the mainstream kernel,
> but i'd prefer a better method than flooding linus with emails
> tho have this accomplished.
Well, what would you propose instead? I guess Alan Cox proposed to
convince Linus, that there
are lots of successful users around.

Marcus
> 
> Regards,
> Luca
> 
> --
> Luca Berra -- bluca@comedia.it
>     Communications Media & Services S.r.l.

RE: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Adams, Mark]

Linus,

I agree, please put LVM in the stock kernel, it is VERY usefull and stable!

-Mark Adams
madams@jewels.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Marcus Ruehmann [SMTP:m.ruehmann@mail.isis.de]
> Sent:	Saturday, August 21, 1999 5:18 PM
> To:	Heinz Mauelshagen
> Cc:	linux-lvm@msede.com; mge@ts1.ez-darmstadt.telekom.de;
> torvalds@transmeta.com
> Subject:	Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?
> 
> Hi Linus,
> 
> please put the LVM into 2.4, it is really usefull and working fine.
> People with need for lots of disk space (database people) are needing
> it.
> 
> Features like this are strongly needed to make Linux ready for the
> enterprise!
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Marcus
> 
> Heinz Mauelshagen wrote:
> > 
> > Hi everybody!
> > 
> > Dirk Hohndel told me last week, that Linus wants to wait before putting LVM
> > into the stock kernel to see if enough people are interested to have this.
> > 
> > Because a feature freeze for 2.4 is already comming up, i hereby kindly ask
> > everybody to convince Linus to put the LVM into the stock kernel.
> > 
> > Send him mails please 8*)
> > 
> > Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > Heinz
> > --
> > 
> >
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > 
> > Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
> >                                                  Entwicklungszentrum
> Darmstadt
> > Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
> > Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
> >                                                  64205 Darmstadt
> > mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
> >                                                  +49 6151 886-425
> >                                                           FAX-386
> >
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!

[Drew Smith]

	Hi Linus,

	(OBGush) Thanks for Linux, man - been using it for just under five
years, and it's made my life a helluva lot better; got me my job as a
unix consultant, and given order to the piles of PCs in my bedroom.

	This note is just to let you know that I'm finding LVM to be extrememly
useful, and that many of the server admins I talk to daily are very
interested in seeing this come as part of the stock distribution - many
AIX and HP/UX people that are pretty tired of paying five-figure prices
for software and support, and won't use Linux because it doesn't offer
enough familiar support for large amounts of storage.

	Just my vote; I really beleive this will help the coming of Linux into
the REALLY big server rooms of the world. :)

	Cheers,
	- Drew.

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Shane Shrybman]

Hi Everyone !

We do not want LVM to miss the 2.4 bandwagon! It sounds like Jonny B.'s
idea of a petition is the best course of action, (I have not heard any
other suggestions). This petition should include a concise list of the
pros and cons of including LVM in the kernel, and a list of people who
agree with these points.

Before we submit our petition, we should have a LVM that works with the
2.3 series. Heinz, what is the status on this and a 0.8 release?

Here is my list of pros and cons.

PROS
- LVM is almost a necessity when managing large amounts of storage.
- Many unix people think that storage layout is one of the most difficult
aspects of maintaining a system. LVM simply makes storage management much
more flexible by allowing storage to be reallocated easily at anytime.
- Folks coming to Linux from other UNIXes which use an LVM (HP, AIX etc..)
will be familiar and comfortable with LVM concepts and will more readily
embrace the penguin.
- The "out of storage space" is a very common problem for users especially
new users. LVM makes resizing allocated space easier. This is perhaps the
most common problem I here about from new users.
- LVM is not a new concept and has been proven to be indispensible in
other OSes, (ie. It is not just some hair-brained scheme that just makes
things harder to learn and more complicated).

CONS
- Using LVM is by definition adding a another logical layer for storage.
Users not already familiar with an LVM will have to do some learning, or
not use LVM.

Comments ?

Please feel free to edit and add your own points!

Shane

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Heinz Mauelshagen]

On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:33:40 -0400 (EDT), Shane Shrybman wrote:

> 
> Hi Everyone !
> 
> We do not want LVM to miss the 2.4 bandwagon! It sounds like Jonny B.'s
> idea of a petition is the best course of action, (I have not heard any
> other suggestions). This petition should include a concise list of the
> pros and cons of including LVM in the kernel, and a list of people who
> agree with these points.
> 
> Before we submit our petition, we should have a LVM that works with the
> 2.3 series. Heinz, what is the status on this and a 0.8 release?

A 2.3.13(+) patch is available but i've heard of instabilities
during heavy i/o (trying to write beyond the end of the device).

Well, we faced this problem back in the 2.1.x age and i already
hoped never seeing it again 8*(

Have to test with more recent upcoming kernels...

Do to activities related to upcoming events (Linux Storage Management
Workshop/Linux Congress), i don't see 0.8 before end of september 8*(

> 
> Here is my list of pros and cons.
> 
> PROS
> - LVM is almost a necessity when managing large amounts of storage.

- it is one of the key enablers to open enterprise doors

> - Many unix people think that storage layout is one of the most difficult
> aspects of maintaining a system. LVM simply makes storage management much
> more flexible by allowing storage to be reallocated easily at anytime.
> - Folks coming to Linux from other UNIXes which use an LVM (HP, AIX etc..)
> will be familiar and comfortable with LVM concepts and will more readily
> embrace the penguin.
> - The "out of storage space" is a very common problem for users especially
> new users. LVM makes resizing allocated space easier. This is perhaps the
> most common problem I here about from new users.
> - LVM is not a new concept and has been proven to be indispensible in
> other OSes, (ie. It is not just some hair-brained scheme that just makes
> things harder to learn and more complicated).

- LVM provides the information to check i/o bottlenecks in a more fine
  grained manner and enables the user to solve them

- its implementation doesn't add much complexity to the
  block i/o layer (compared to for eg. MD) and therefore avoids instabilities


> 
> CONS
> - Using LVM is by definition adding a another logical layer for storage.
> Users not already familiar with an LVM will have to do some learning, or
> not use LVM.
> 
> Comments ?
> 
> Please feel free to edit and add your own points!
> 
> Shane
> 
> 


--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
                                                 Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
Senior Systems Engineer                          Postfach 10 05 41
                                                 64205 Darmstadt
mge@ez-darmstadt.telekom.de                      Germany
                                                 +49 6151 886-425
                                                          FAX-386
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[Mats Wichmann]

>
>PROS
>- LVM is almost a necessity when managing large amounts of storage.

although at some cost in performance since there's an additional layer of
translation before you get to the actual disk blocks....

>- Many unix people think that storage layout is one of the most difficult
>aspects of maintaining a system. LVM simply makes storage management much
>more flexible by allowing storage to be reallocated easily at anytime.

at some cost again....insulation from actual details of storage does mean you
are not necessarily making the optimal use of layout....but the benefits seem
to far outweigh these costs.

>- Folks coming to Linux from other UNIXes which use an LVM (HP, AIX etc..)
>will be familiar and comfortable with LVM concepts and will more readily
>embrace the penguin.

add at least Solaris (Solstice Disk Suite) and SGI IRIX  (xlv - a very nice
combination with the xfs filesystem) to this list.

>- The "out of storage space" is a very common problem for users especially
>new users. LVM makes resizing allocated space easier. This is perhaps the
>most common problem I here about from new users.
>- LVM is not a new concept and has been proven to be indispensible in
>other OSes, (ie. It is not just some hair-brained scheme that just makes
>things harder to learn and more complicated).
>
>CONS
>- Using LVM is by definition adding a another logical layer for storage.
>Users not already familiar with an LVM will have to do some learning, or
>not use LVM.

Not terribly familiar with Linux LVM (listening here to help become so)...other
LVMs require a large number of commands to become familar with (the AIX
LVM being the prototype which _most_ folks have followed; Solaris takes
a somewhat different approach).  Actually, a well-thought out GUI can be
a great help here.  The author of a course I teach has constructed one as
a sample which gives you drag-and-drop LVM management - in very little
tk/perl code.

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM in stock kernel!?

[S. Ryan Quick]

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On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Mats Wichmann wrote:

[deletia]

> 
> Not terribly familiar with Linux LVM (listening here to help become so)...other
> LVMs require a large number of commands to become familar with (the AIX
> LVM being the prototype which _most_ folks have followed; Solaris takes
> a somewhat different approach).  Actually, a well-thought out GUI can be
> a great help here.  The author of a course I teach has constructed one as
> a sample which gives you drag-and-drop LVM management - in very little
> tk/perl code.

While I think the GUI thing is nice, and as a proponent of the VERITAS Volume Manager despite a great affinity for IBM's
LVM, I have to say that the GUI inevitably leaves some small, but super-crucial piece out.  As a long time AIX and Veritas
consultant, I have to say I long ago gave up both smit and vxva in favor of the good old CLI.  I think that giving Linux LVM
a gui might eventually prove useful, but right now, I think it better to develop as many CLI tools as possible and stabilize
the code.  I want to see Oracle start recommending LVM (on Debian -- I'm tired of all this redhat stuff, hehehe) as a
definite boost.

Some other Pros to add:

Integration with IBM's ADSM backup allows Linux machines to be backed up "snapshot" style by simply syncing volumes and
grabbing volume data.

The ability to add a sort of volume log allows almost instant volume resyncing while maintaining an active data volume.

The (unique) ability to use either physical disks or partitions (and even flat files via the loopback device) allows for a
very flexible Volume Group makeup (e.g. I don't get stuck having to allocate all of that 18GB drive to a volume when I only
need 4GB of it, etc.).  NOTE:  This does add some cons when it comes to deporting (exporting) volumes and migrating disks,
but it should be easy enough to overcome.

Ryan

> 
> 

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