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* Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
@ 2020-04-19  6:48 Helge Kreutzmann
  2020-04-20  8:13 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-19  6:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mtk.manpages; +Cc: linux-man

Dear manpages maintainers.
the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
well for a large variety of target languages.

During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.

We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
each and every issue.

Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
your source format.

Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
them.

I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
future reports should use another channel, please let me know.

**

We cannot understand the last sentence. What is "forward spacing"?

"This option causes the B<MTEOM> operation to be sent directly to the drive, "
"potentially speeding up the operation but causing the driver to lose track "
"of the current file number normally returned by the B<MTIOCGET> request.  If "
"B<MT_ST_FAST_EOM> is false, the driver will respond to an B<MTEOM> request "
"by forward spacing over files."

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content Helge Kreutzmann
@ 2020-04-20  8:13 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-20 15:51   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20  8:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Helge Kreutzmann; +Cc: mtk.manpages, linux-man, Kai Mäkisara

[CC += Kai]

(Kai, I got a pile of queries from a downstream translation project)

On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> Dear manpages maintainers.
> the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
> man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
> well for a large variety of target languages.
> 
> During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
> original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
> typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
> not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.
> 
> We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
> least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
> distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
> the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
> already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
> if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
> the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
> each and every issue.
> 
> Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
> i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
> groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
> possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
> your source format.
> 
> Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
> not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
> problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
> them.
> 
> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
> issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
> future reports should use another channel, please let me know.
> 
> **
> 
> We cannot understand the last sentence. What is "forward spacing"?
> 
> "This option causes the B<MTEOM> operation to be sent directly to the drive, "
> "potentially speeding up the operation but causing the driver to lose track "
> "of the current file number normally returned by the B<MTIOCGET> request.  If "
> "B<MT_ST_FAST_EOM> is false, the driver will respond to an B<MTEOM> request "
> "by forward spacing over files."

Perhaps Kai can help. I do not have a good explanation.

Thanks,

Michael


-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-20  8:13 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-20 15:51   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  2020-04-20 18:29     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)" @ 2020-04-20 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man



> On 20. Apr 2020, at 11.13, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [CC += Kai]
> 
> (Kai, I got a pile of queries from a downstream translation project)
> 
> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>> Dear manpages maintainers.
>> 
...
>> We cannot understand the last sentence. What is "forward spacing"?
>> 
>> "This option causes the B<MTEOM> operation to be sent directly to the drive, "
>> "potentially speeding up the operation but causing the driver to lose track "
>> "of the current file number normally returned by the B<MTIOCGET> request.  If "
>> "B<MT_ST_FAST_EOM> is false, the driver will respond to an B<MTEOM> request "
>> "by forward spacing over files."
> 
> Perhaps Kai can help. I do not have a good explanation.
> 
Spacing in tape terminology means going to the next file (or record or set mark).
The drives usually support a command to go to the end of the tape. The
drawback is that no information is obtained about the number of files skipped.
If the driver spaces forward over files one by one, it can count how many
files have been skipped.

This is the technical description. But the text also says what is the consequence
for a user that does not care about technology. Spacing is mentions also
earlier in the text.

Thanks,
Kai


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-20 15:51   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
@ 2020-04-20 18:29     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-20 18:51       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man

Hello Kai,

On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 17:51, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
<kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 20. Apr 2020, at 11.13, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [CC += Kai]
> >
> > (Kai, I got a pile of queries from a downstream translation project)
> >
> > On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >> Dear manpages maintainers.
> >>
> ...
> >> We cannot understand the last sentence. What is "forward spacing"?
> >>
> >> "This option causes the B<MTEOM> operation to be sent directly to the drive, "
> >> "potentially speeding up the operation but causing the driver to lose track "
> >> "of the current file number normally returned by the B<MTIOCGET> request.  If "
> >> "B<MT_ST_FAST_EOM> is false, the driver will respond to an B<MTEOM> request "
> >> "by forward spacing over files."
> >
> > Perhaps Kai can help. I do not have a good explanation.
> >
> Spacing in tape terminology means going to the next file (or record or set mark).
> The drives usually support a command to go to the end of the tape. The
> drawback is that no information is obtained about the number of files skipped.
> If the driver spaces forward over files one by one, it can count how many
> files have been skipped.
>
> This is the technical description. But the text also says what is the consequence
> for a user that does not care about technology. Spacing is mentions also
> earlier in the text.

So, no text changes needed here, right?

Thanks,

Michael
-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-20 18:29     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-20 18:51       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  2020-04-25 10:15         ` Helge Kreutzmann
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)" @ 2020-04-20 18:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man



> On 20. Apr 2020, at 21.29, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Kai,
> 
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 17:51, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
> <kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20. Apr 2020, at 11.13, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [CC += Kai]
>>> 
>>> (Kai, I got a pile of queries from a downstream translation project)
>>> 
>>> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>>>> Dear manpages maintainers.
>>>> 
>> ...
>>>> We cannot understand the last sentence. What is "forward spacing"?
>>>> 
>>>> "This option causes the B<MTEOM> operation to be sent directly to the drive, "
>>>> "potentially speeding up the operation but causing the driver to lose track "
>>>> "of the current file number normally returned by the B<MTIOCGET> request.  If "
>>>> "B<MT_ST_FAST_EOM> is false, the driver will respond to an B<MTEOM> request "
>>>> "by forward spacing over files."
>>> 
>>> Perhaps Kai can help. I do not have a good explanation.
>>> 
>> Spacing in tape terminology means going to the next file (or record or set mark).
>> The drives usually support a command to go to the end of the tape. The
>> drawback is that no information is obtained about the number of files skipped.
>> If the driver spaces forward over files one by one, it can count how many
>> files have been skipped.
>> 
>> This is the technical description. But the text also says what is the consequence
>> for a user that does not care about technology. Spacing is mentions also
>> earlier in the text.
> 
> So, no text changes needed here, right?
> 
I don’t think changes are needed. But the discussion in my other answer applies
also here.

Thanks,
Kai


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-20 18:51       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
@ 2020-04-25 10:15         ` Helge Kreutzmann
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-25 10:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  Cc: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages), linux-man, Mario Blättermann


[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2610 bytes --]

Hello Kai,
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 09:51:11PM +0300, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)" wrote:
> > On 20. Apr 2020, at 21.29, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 17:51, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
> > <kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
> >>> On 20. Apr 2020, at 11.13, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> [CC += Kai]
> >>> 
> >>> (Kai, I got a pile of queries from a downstream translation project)
> >>> 
> >>> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >>>> Dear manpages maintainers.
> >>>> 
> >> ...
> >>>> We cannot understand the last sentence. What is "forward spacing"?
> >>>> 
> >>>> "This option causes the B<MTEOM> operation to be sent directly to the drive, "
> >>>> "potentially speeding up the operation but causing the driver to lose track "
> >>>> "of the current file number normally returned by the B<MTIOCGET> request.  If "
> >>>> "B<MT_ST_FAST_EOM> is false, the driver will respond to an B<MTEOM> request "
> >>>> "by forward spacing over files."
> >>> 
> >>> Perhaps Kai can help. I do not have a good explanation.
> >>> 
> >> Spacing in tape terminology means going to the next file (or record or set mark).
> >> The drives usually support a command to go to the end of the tape. The
> >> drawback is that no information is obtained about the number of files skipped.
> >> If the driver spaces forward over files one by one, it can count how many
> >> files have been skipped.
> >> 
> >> This is the technical description. But the text also says what is the consequence
> >> for a user that does not care about technology. Spacing is mentions also
> >> earlier in the text.
> > 
> > So, no text changes needed here, right?
> > 
> I don’t think changes are needed. But the discussion in my other answer applies
> also here.

Thanks for the explanation. I added a note in the translation file,
updated the translation accordingly and put the current translator in
charge in CC so he is aware of this discussion.

So for my side this issue can be closed.

Greetings

          Helge

P.S. For this issue I tried to search for the term "space over" but
     did not find the right pages, including Wikipedia (but I might
     have missed the right search keys).

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-20 15:42   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
@ 2020-04-20 18:28     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man

Hello Kai,

On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 17:42, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
<kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 20. Apr 2020, at 11.11, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [CC += Kai]
> >
> > On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >> Dear manpages maintainers.
> >> the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
> ...
> >
> > I do not know. Perhaps Kai can help.
> >
> > Kai, the text in question is
> >
> >              MT_ST_AUTO_LOCK (Default: false)
> >                     When this option is true, the drive door  is  locked
> >                     when  the  device  is opened and unlocked when it is
> >                     closed.
> >
> > I believe Helge asks whether the text should read:
> >
> >              MT_ST_AUTO_LOCK (Default: false)
> >                     When this option is true, the drive door  is  locked
> >                     when  the  device  is CLOSED and unlocked when it is
> >                     OPEN.
> >
> The orginal text is correct. This is section 4 man page meaning that it
> describes the programming interface, Opening the device means
> opening the device file, i.e., starting to use the device from the
> computer and the drive should be closed when the drive is operating.
> It can be opened when the device file is closed and the device is
> not in use.
>
> This might be clearer if the text would say “when the device file is
> opened”? I admit that the original text, while correct, may not be
> obvious to non-programmers.

Thanks. And I made your suggested wording change, which I think is
helpful to prevent misunderstandings.

Cheers,

Michael

-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-20  8:11 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-20 15:42   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  2020-04-20 18:28     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)" @ 2020-04-20 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man



> On 20. Apr 2020, at 11.11, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [CC += Kai]
> 
> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>> Dear manpages maintainers.
>> the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
...
> 
> I do not know. Perhaps Kai can help.
> 
> Kai, the text in question is
> 
>              MT_ST_AUTO_LOCK (Default: false)
>                     When this option is true, the drive door  is  locked
>                     when  the  device  is opened and unlocked when it is
>                     closed.
> 
> I believe Helge asks whether the text should read:
> 
>              MT_ST_AUTO_LOCK (Default: false)
>                     When this option is true, the drive door  is  locked
>                     when  the  device  is CLOSED and unlocked when it is
>                     OPEN.
> 
The orginal text is correct. This is section 4 man page meaning that it
describes the programming interface, Opening the device means
opening the device file, i.e., starting to use the device from the
computer and the drive should be closed when the drive is operating.
It can be opened when the device file is closed and the device is
not in use.

This might be clearer if the text would say “when the device file is
opened”? I admit that the original text, while correct, may not be
obvious to non-programmers.

Thanks,
Kai


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
  2020-04-19  6:48 Helge Kreutzmann
@ 2020-04-20  8:11 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-20 15:42   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20  8:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Helge Kreutzmann; +Cc: mtk.manpages, linux-man, Kai Mäkisara

[CC += Kai]

On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> Dear manpages maintainers.
> the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
> man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
> well for a large variety of target languages.
> 
> During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
> original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
> typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
> not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.
> 
> We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
> least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
> distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
> the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
> already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
> if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
> the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
> each and every issue.
> 
> Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
> i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
> groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
> possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
> your source format.
> 
> Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
> not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
> problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
> them.
> 
> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
> issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
> future reports should use another channel, please let me know.
> 
> **
> 
> Is the statement true or is it swapped (locked when closed)?
> 
> "When this option is true, the drive door is locked when the device is opened "
> "and unlocked when it is closed."

I do not know. Perhaps Kai can help.

Kai, the text in question is

              MT_ST_AUTO_LOCK (Default: false)
                     When this option is true, the drive door  is  locked
                     when  the  device  is opened and unlocked when it is
                     closed.

I believe Helge asks whether the text should read:

              MT_ST_AUTO_LOCK (Default: false)
                     When this option is true, the drive door  is  locked
                     when  the  device  is CLOSED and unlocked when it is
                     OPEN.

Can you help?

Thanks,

Michael



-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content
@ 2020-04-19  6:48 Helge Kreutzmann
  2020-04-20  8:11 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-19  6:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mtk.manpages; +Cc: linux-man

Dear manpages maintainers.
the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
well for a large variety of target languages.

During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.

We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
each and every issue.

Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
your source format.

Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
them.

I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
future reports should use another channel, please let me know.

**

Is the statement true or is it swapped (locked when closed)?

"When this option is true, the drive door is locked when the device is opened "
"and unlocked when it is closed."

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: st(4): Content Helge Kreutzmann
2020-04-20  8:13 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-20 15:51   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
2020-04-20 18:29     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-20 18:51       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
2020-04-25 10:15         ` Helge Kreutzmann
2020-04-19  6:48 Helge Kreutzmann
2020-04-20  8:11 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-20 15:42   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
2020-04-20 18:28     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)

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