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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: Alexandre Chartre <alexandre.chartre@oracle.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Radim Krcmar <rkrcmar@redhat.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	kvm list <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com>,
	jan.setjeeilers@oracle.com, Liran Alon <liran.alon@oracle.com>,
	Jonathan Adams <jwadams@google.com>,
	Alexander Graf <graf@amazon.de>,
	Mike Rapoport <rppt@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC v2 00/27] Kernel Address Space Isolation
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 12:33:53 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190715103353.GC3419@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrWcnJhtUsJ2nrwAqqgdbRrZG6FNLKY_T-WTETL6-B-C1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 08:06:12AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 12:06 PM Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 06:37:47PM +0200, Alexandre Chartre wrote:
> > > On 7/12/19 5:16 PM, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> >
> > > > Right. If we decide to expose more parts of the kernel mappings then that's
> > > > just adding more stuff to the existing user (PTI) map mechanics.
> > >
> > > If we expose more parts of the kernel mapping by adding them to the existing
> > > user (PTI) map, then we only control the mapping of kernel sensitive data but
> > > we don't control user mapping (with ASI, we exclude all user mappings).
> > >
> > > How would you control the mapping of userland sensitive data and exclude them
> > > from the user map? Would you have the application explicitly identify sensitive
> > > data (like Andy suggested with a /dev/xpfo device)?
> >
> > To what purpose do you want to exclude userspace from the kernel
> > mapping; that is, what are you mitigating against with that?
> 
> Mutually distrusting user/guest tenants.  Imagine an attack against a
> VM hosting provider (GCE, for example).  If the overall system is
> well-designed, the host kernel won't possess secrets that are
> important to the overall hosting network.  The interesting secrets are
> in the memory of other tenants running under the same host.  So, if we
> can mostly or completely avoid mapping one tenant's memory in the
> host, we reduce the amount of valuable information that could leak via
> a speculation (or wild read) attack to another tenant.
> 
> The practicality of such a scheme is obviously an open question.

Ah, ok. So it's some virt specific nonsense. I'll go on ignoring it then
;-)


  reply	other threads:[~2019-07-15 10:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-07-11 14:25 [RFC v2 00/27] Kernel Address Space Isolation Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 01/26] mm/x86: Introduce kernel address space isolation Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 21:33   ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-07-12  7:43     ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 02/26] mm/asi: Abort isolation on interrupt, exception and context switch Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 20:11   ` Andi Kleen
2019-07-11 20:17     ` Mike Rapoport
2019-07-11 20:41       ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12  0:05   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-12  7:50     ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 03/26] mm/asi: Handle page fault due to address space isolation Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 04/26] mm/asi: Functions to track buffers allocated for an ASI page-table Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 05/26] mm/asi: Add ASI page-table entry offset functions Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 06/26] mm/asi: Add ASI page-table entry allocation functions Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 07/26] mm/asi: Add ASI page-table entry set functions Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 08/26] mm/asi: Functions to populate an ASI page-table from a VA range Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 09/26] mm/asi: Helper functions to map module into ASI Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 10/26] mm/asi: Keep track of VA ranges mapped in ASI page-table Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 11/26] mm/asi: Functions to clear ASI page-table entries for a VA range Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 12/26] mm/asi: Function to copy page-table entries for percpu buffer Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 13/26] mm/asi: Add asi_remap() function Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 14/26] mm/asi: Handle ASI mapped range leaks and overlaps Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 15/26] mm/asi: Initialize the ASI page-table with core mappings Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 16/26] mm/asi: Option to map current task into ASI Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 17/26] rcu: Move tree.h static forward declarations to tree.c Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 18/26] rcu: Make percpu rcu_data non-static Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 19/26] mm/asi: Add option to map RCU data Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 20/26] mm/asi: Add option to map cpu_hw_events Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 21/26] mm/asi: Make functions to read cr3/cr4 ASI aware Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 22/26] KVM: x86/asi: Introduce address_space_isolation module parameter Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 23/26] KVM: x86/asi: Introduce KVM address space isolation Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 24/26] KVM: x86/asi: Populate the KVM ASI page-table Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 25/26] KVM: x86/asi: Switch to KVM address space on entry to guest Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:25 ` [RFC v2 26/26] KVM: x86/asi: Map KVM memslots and IO buses into KVM ASI Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 14:40 ` [RFC v2 00/27] Kernel Address Space Isolation Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-11 22:38 ` Dave Hansen
2019-07-12  8:09   ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12 13:51     ` Dave Hansen
2019-07-12 14:06       ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12 15:23         ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-07-12 10:44   ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-07-12 11:56     ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12 12:50       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-07-12 13:43         ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12 13:58           ` Dave Hansen
2019-07-12 14:36           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-14 18:17             ` Alexander Graf
2019-07-12 13:54         ` Dave Hansen
2019-07-12 15:20           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-07-12 15:16         ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-07-12 16:37           ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12 16:45             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-14 17:11               ` Mike Rapoport
2019-07-12 19:06             ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-07-14 15:06               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-15 10:33                 ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2019-07-12 19:48             ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-07-15  8:23               ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-15  8:28                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-07-12 16:00       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-07-12 11:44 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-07-12 12:17   ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12 12:36     ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-07-12 12:47       ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-12 13:07         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-07-12 13:46           ` Alexandre Chartre
2019-07-31 16:31             ` Dario Faggioli
2019-08-22 12:31               ` Alexandre Chartre
2020-07-01 13:55 hackapple
2020-07-01 14:00 黄金海
2020-07-01 14:02 黄金海

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