From: Brian Geffon <bgeffon@google.com>
To: Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@google.com>
Cc: Anshuman Khandual <anshuman.khandual@arm.com>,
Tim Murray <timmurray@google.com>,
Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.com>,
Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com>,
Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>,
Sonny Rao <sonnyrao@google.com>,
linux-api@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/7] introduce memory hinting API for external process
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:20 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADyq12xwNwYOXeFadR+ibnaBtdDJHhA1Pgk4Wz=rz0DY7V-j5g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALvZod6ioRxSi7tHB-uSTxN1-hsxD+8O3mfFAjaqdsimjUVmcw@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5235 bytes --]
To expand on the ChromeOS use case we're in a very similar situation to
Android. For example, the Chrome browser uses a separate process for each
individual tab (with some exceptions) and over time many tabs remain open
in a back-grounded or idle state. Given that we have a lot of information
about the weight of a tab, when it was last active, etc, we can benefit
tremendously from per-process reclaim. We're working on getting real world
numbers but all of our initial testing shows very promising results.
On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 5:57 AM Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@google.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 7:55 PM Anshuman Khandual
> <anshuman.khandual@arm.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 05/20/2019 10:29 PM, Tim Murray wrote:
> > > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 11:37 PM Anshuman Khandual
> > > <anshuman.khandual@arm.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Or Is the objective here is reduce the number of processes which get
> killed by
> > >> lmkd by triggering swapping for the unused memory (user hinted)
> sooner so that
> > >> they dont get picked by lmkd. Under utilization for zram hardware is
> a concern
> > >> here as well ?
> > >
> > > The objective is to avoid some instances of memory pressure by
> > > proactively swapping pages that userspace knows to be cold before
> > > those pages reach the end of the LRUs, which in turn can prevent some
> > > apps from being killed by lmk/lmkd. As soon as Android userspace knows
> > > that an application is not being used and is only resident to improve
> > > performance if the user returns to that app, we can kick off
> > > process_madvise on that process's pages (or some portion of those
> > > pages) in a power-efficient way to reduce memory pressure long before
> > > the system hits the free page watermark. This allows the system more
> > > time to put pages into zram versus waiting for the watermark to
> > > trigger kswapd, which decreases the likelihood that later memory
> > > allocations will cause enough pressure to trigger a kill of one of
> > > these apps.
> >
> > So this opens up bit of LRU management to user space hints. Also because
> the app
> > in itself wont know about the memory situation of the entire system, new
> system
> > call needs to be called from an external process.
> >
> > >
> > >> Swapping out memory into zram wont increase the latency for a hot
> start ? Or
> > >> is it because as it will prevent a fresh cold start which anyway will
> be slower
> > >> than a slow hot start. Just being curious.
> > >
> > > First, not all swapped pages will be reloaded immediately once an app
> > > is resumed. We've found that an app's working set post-process_madvise
> > > is significantly smaller than what an app allocates when it first
> > > launches (see the delta between pswpin and pswpout in Minchan's
> > > results). Presumably because of this, faulting to fetch from zram does
> >
> > pswpin 417613 1392647 975034 233.00
> > pswpout 1274224 2661731 1387507 108.00
> >
> > IIUC the swap-in ratio is way higher in comparison to that of swap out.
> Is that
> > always the case ? Or it tend to swap out from an active area of the
> working set
> > which faulted back again.
> >
> > > not seem to introduce a noticeable hot start penalty, not does it
> > > cause an increase in performance problems later in the app's
> > > lifecycle. I've measured with and without process_madvise, and the
> > > differences are within our noise bounds. Second, because we're not
> >
> > That is assuming that post process_madvise() working set for the
> application is
> > always smaller. There is another challenge. The external process should
> ideally
> > have the knowledge of active areas of the working set for an application
> in
> > question for it to invoke process_madvise() correctly to prevent such
> scenarios.
> >
> > > preemptively evicting file pages and only making them more likely to
> > > be evicted when there's already memory pressure, we avoid the case
> > > where we process_madvise an app then immediately return to the app and
> > > reload all file pages in the working set even though there was no
> > > intervening memory pressure. Our initial version of this work evicted
> >
> > That would be the worst case scenario which should be avoided. Memory
> pressure
> > must be a parameter before actually doing the swap out. But pages if
> know to be
> > inactive/cold can be marked high priority to be swapped out.
> >
> > > file pages preemptively and did cause a noticeable slowdown (~15%) for
> > > that case; this patch set avoids that slowdown. Finally, the benefit
> > > from avoiding cold starts is huge. The performance improvement from
> > > having a hot start instead of a cold start ranges from 3x for very
> > > small apps to 50x+ for larger apps like high-fidelity games.
> >
> > Is there any other real world scenario apart from this app based
> ecosystem where
> > user hinted LRU management might be helpful ? Just being curious. Thanks
> for the
> > detailed explanation. I will continue looking into this series.
>
> Chrome OS is another real world use-case for this user hinted LRU
> management approach by proactively reclaiming reclaim from tabs not
> accessed by the user for some time.
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-05-22 4:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 138+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-05-20 3:52 [RFC 0/7] introduce memory hinting API for external process Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 3:52 ` [RFC 1/7] mm: introduce MADV_COOL Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 8:16 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-20 8:19 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-20 15:08 ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-05-20 22:55 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 22:54 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:04 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 9:11 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 10:05 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 8:53 ` Hillf Danton
2019-05-28 10:58 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 3:52 ` [RFC 2/7] mm: change PAGEREF_RECLAIM_CLEAN with PAGE_REFRECLAIM Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 16:50 ` Johannes Weiner
2019-05-20 22:57 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 3:52 ` [RFC 3/7] mm: introduce MADV_COLD Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 8:27 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-20 23:00 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:08 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 9:13 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 14:54 ` Hillf Danton
2019-05-30 0:45 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 3:52 ` [RFC 4/7] mm: factor out madvise's core functionality Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 14:26 ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2019-05-21 1:26 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:36 ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2019-05-21 6:50 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 7:06 ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2019-05-21 10:52 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 11:00 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 11:24 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 11:32 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 10:49 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 10:55 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-20 3:52 ` [RFC 5/7] mm: introduce external memory hinting API Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 9:18 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 2:41 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:17 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 10:32 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 9:01 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-21 11:35 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 11:51 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-21 15:31 ` Oleg Nesterov
2019-05-27 7:43 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-27 15:12 ` Oleg Nesterov
2019-05-27 23:33 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 7:23 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-29 3:41 ` Hillf Danton
2019-05-30 0:38 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 3:52 ` [RFC 6/7] mm: extend process_madvise syscall to support vector arrary Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 9:22 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 2:48 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:24 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 10:26 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 10:37 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-27 7:49 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-29 10:08 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-29 10:33 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-30 2:17 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-30 6:57 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-30 8:02 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-30 16:19 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-30 18:47 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-29 4:14 ` Hillf Danton
2019-05-30 0:35 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 3:52 ` [RFC 7/7] mm: madvise support MADV_ANONYMOUS_FILTER and MADV_FILE_FILTER Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 9:28 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 2:55 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:26 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-27 7:58 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-27 12:44 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 3:26 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 6:29 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 8:13 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 8:31 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-28 8:49 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 9:08 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 9:39 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-28 10:33 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 11:21 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-28 11:49 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 12:11 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-28 12:32 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 10:32 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 10:41 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 11:12 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 11:28 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 11:42 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-28 11:56 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 12:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-28 12:38 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 12:10 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 11:44 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 11:51 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-28 12:06 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 12:22 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-28 11:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-21 15:33 ` Johannes Weiner
2019-05-22 1:50 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-29 4:36 ` Hillf Danton
2019-05-30 1:00 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 6:37 ` [RFC 0/7] introduce memory hinting API for external process Anshuman Khandual
2019-05-20 16:59 ` Tim Murray
2019-05-21 2:55 ` Anshuman Khandual
2019-05-21 5:14 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 10:34 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-28 10:50 ` Anshuman Khandual
2019-05-21 12:56 ` Shakeel Butt
2019-05-22 4:15 ` Brian Geffon [this message]
2019-05-22 4:23 ` Brian Geffon
2019-05-20 9:28 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-20 14:42 ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2019-05-21 2:56 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-20 16:46 ` Johannes Weiner
2019-05-21 4:39 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:32 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 1:44 ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-05-21 5:01 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 6:34 ` Michal Hocko
2019-05-21 8:42 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-21 11:05 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 11:30 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-21 11:39 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-22 5:11 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-22 8:22 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-22 13:16 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-22 14:52 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-22 15:17 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-22 15:48 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-22 15:57 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-22 16:01 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-22 16:01 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-05-23 13:07 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-27 8:06 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 11:41 ` Minchan Kim
2019-05-21 12:04 ` Christian Brauner
2019-05-21 12:15 ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2019-05-21 12:53 ` Shakeel Butt
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