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From: luto@kernel.org (Andy Lutomirski)
To: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org
Subject: [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 09:39:08 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALCETrXwp1faWnqRJ5iLeo6bOOrRS_-L74_xnRAN1Md1YZW8Tg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CACdnJuuGRRUt-a3i89o906ka3RDOhs+_7tz_G8LTG8Jc0DXAyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 9:22 AM, Matthew Garrett <mjg59@google.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 6:52 AM Theodore Y. Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 04, 2018 at 02:33:37PM +0100, David Howells wrote:
>> > Theodore Y. Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Whoa.  Why doesn't lockdown prevent kexec?  Put another away, why
>> > > isn't this a problem for people who are fearful that Linux could be
>> > > used as part of a Windows boot virus in a Secure UEFI context?
>> >
>> > Lockdown mode restricts kexec to booting an authorised image (where the
>> > authorisation may be by signature or by IMA).
>
>> If that's true, then Matthew's assertion that lockdown w/o secure boot
>> is insecure goes away, no?
>
> If you don't have secure boot then an attacker with root can modify your
> bootloader or kernel, and on next boot lockdown can be silently disabled.

This has been rebutted over and over and over.  Secure boot is not the
only verified boot mechanism in the world.  Other, better, much more
auditable, and much simpler mechanisms have been around for a long,
long time.

>> The fact that this Verified Boot on, lockdown off causes trouble
>> points to a clear problem.   User owns the hardware they should have
>> the right to defeat secureboot if they wish to.
>
> Which is why Shim allows you to disable validation if you prove physical
> user presence.

And that's a giant hack.  The actual feature should be that a user
proves physical presence and thus disables lockdown *without*
disabling verification.

--Andy
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  reply	other threads:[~2018-04-04 16:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-03-30 23:29 [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot David Howells
2018-03-31  0:46 ` James Morris
2018-04-03  0:37   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03  0:59     ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03  1:47       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03  7:06   ` David Howells
2018-04-03 15:11     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 15:41       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-03 16:26         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 16:29       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 16:45         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 18:45           ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 19:01             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:07               ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 19:29           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:51             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 18:42               ` Peter Jones
2018-04-04 20:01                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-04-04 20:18                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 18:47                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-06  4:42                 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-03 17:16         ` David Howells
2018-04-03 19:01           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:49           ` David Howells
2018-04-03 21:58             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:32             ` David Howells
2018-04-03 22:39               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:46                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 22:51                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 22:53                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 23:09                       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:08                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:10                       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:17                       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:26                         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:39                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:47                             ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:02                               ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:04                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:08                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:12                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 14:58                                       ` Alan Cox
2018-04-04  0:22                                   ` David Howells
2018-04-05 17:59                                   ` Alan Cox
2018-04-05 18:03                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:45                           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:55                             ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:59                               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:06                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:10                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:15                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:16                                       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:18                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04  0:19                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  9:04                                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04  0:25                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:33                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:46                                             ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:56                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  1:13                                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  1:43                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  4:30                                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 12:57                                                       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:02                                                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:34                                                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:57                                                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:29                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2018-04-04 16:20                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 13:33                                                       ` David Howells
2018-04-04 13:52                                                         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 16:22                                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:39                                                             ` Andy Lutomirski [this message]
2018-04-04 16:42                                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:46                                                               ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-05  0:05                                                             ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-05  0:20                                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 13:57                                                         ` David Howells
2018-04-04 16:09                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 16:17                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  6:56                                                   ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-04 16:26                                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05  1:28                                                       ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-04  1:36                                                 ` Justin Forbes
     [not found]                                                 ` <CAFbkSA0ursG3RGWU19LQiD6u30h5V=Aqj3oVyHQCiX6MLopYUg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-04-04  1:58                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:17                                   ` Jann Horn
2018-04-04  0:23                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04  8:05                                     ` David Howells
2018-04-04 14:35                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 14:44                                       ` David Howells
2018-04-04 15:43                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-04-03 23:56                         ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:58                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:39                 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:48                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 23:12               ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:27                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:42                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 20:53         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 20:54           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:08               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:21                 ` Al Viro
2018-04-03 21:37                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:26                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:32                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-03-31 10:20 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 13:25   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-04-03 21:48     ` James Morris
2018-04-05 17:53     ` Alan Cox
2018-11-21 12:05 ` [PATCH next-lockdown 0/1] debugfs EPERM fix for 'Kernel lockdown for secure boot' patch series Vasily Gorbik
2018-11-21 12:05   ` [PATCH next-lockdown 1/1] debugfs: avoid EPERM when no open file operation defined Vasily Gorbik
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-04-04  2:34 [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-04  4:31 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-08  7:44   ` joeyli
2018-04-08  8:07 ` joeyli
2018-04-09  3:40   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-09  8:14     ` Daniel Borkmann
2018-04-09 13:55     ` joeyli
2017-10-26 16:37 David Howells
2017-10-26 18:22 ` Mimi Zohar
2017-10-26 19:20 ` James Morris

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