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From: tglx@linutronix.de (Thomas Gleixner)
To: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org
Subject: [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 22:01:47 +0200 (CEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.21.1804042148480.1492@nanos.tec.linutronix.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180404184255.exdrtpqnxlqme7tl@redhat.com>

On Wed, 4 Apr 2018, Peter Jones wrote:
> That is to say, as a result of the way malware has been written, our way
> of thinking about it is often that it's a way to build a boot loader for
> a malicious kernel, so that's how we wind up talking about it.  Are we
> concerned with malware stealing your data?  Yes, but Secure Boot is only
> indirectly about that.  It's primarily about denying the malware easy
> mechanisms to build a persistence mechanism.  The uid-0 != ring-0 aspect
> is useful independent of Secure Boot, but Secure Boot without it falls
> way short of accomplishing its goal.

I think we can all agree that

  The uid-0 != ring-0 aspect is useful independent of Secure Boot

There is probably resonable consensus about the second part of this
sentence as well:

   but Secure Boot without it falls way short of accomplishing its goal.

Now where the disagreement lies is the way how the uid/ring0 aspect is tied
to secure boot, which makes it impossible to be useful independent of
Secure Boot.

So the real question is, how can we make 'lockdown' usable and useful
without Secure Boot and at the same time not violate the constraints of
the Secure Boot scenario.

If we can agree on the above then I hope that we can focus on the technical
problems instead of arguing in circles.

Thanks,

	tglx
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  reply	other threads:[~2018-04-04 20:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-03-30 23:29 [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot David Howells
2018-03-31  0:46 ` James Morris
2018-04-03  0:37   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03  0:59     ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03  1:47       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03  7:06   ` David Howells
2018-04-03 15:11     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 15:41       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-03 16:26         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 16:29       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 16:45         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 18:45           ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 19:01             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:07               ` Kees Cook
2018-04-03 19:29           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:51             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 18:42               ` Peter Jones
2018-04-04 20:01                 ` Thomas Gleixner [this message]
2018-04-04 20:18                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 18:47                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-06  4:42                 ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-03 17:16         ` David Howells
2018-04-03 19:01           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 19:49           ` David Howells
2018-04-03 21:58             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:32             ` David Howells
2018-04-03 22:39               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 22:46                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 22:51                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 22:53                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 23:09                       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:08                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:10                       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:17                       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:26                         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:39                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:47                             ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:02                               ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:04                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:08                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:12                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05 14:58                                       ` Alan Cox
2018-04-04  0:22                                   ` David Howells
2018-04-05 17:59                                   ` Alan Cox
2018-04-05 18:03                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:45                           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 23:55                             ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:59                               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:06                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:10                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:15                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:16                                       ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:18                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04  0:19                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  9:04                                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04  0:25                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:33                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:46                                             ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  0:56                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  1:13                                                 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  1:43                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  4:30                                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 12:57                                                       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:02                                                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:34                                                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 13:57                                                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-04-04 13:29                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2018-04-04 16:20                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 13:33                                                       ` David Howells
2018-04-04 13:52                                                         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-04 16:22                                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:39                                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 16:42                                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 16:46                                                               ` Justin Forbes
2018-04-05  0:05                                                             ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-05  0:20                                                               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04 13:57                                                         ` David Howells
2018-04-04 16:09                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04 16:17                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-04  6:56                                                   ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-04 16:26                                                     ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-05  1:28                                                       ` Peter Dolding
2018-04-04  1:36                                                 ` Justin Forbes
     [not found]                                                 ` <CAFbkSA0ursG3RGWU19LQiD6u30h5V=Aqj3oVyHQCiX6MLopYUg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-04-04  1:58                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-04  0:17                                   ` Jann Horn
2018-04-04  0:23                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04  8:05                                     ` David Howells
2018-04-04 14:35                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-04 14:44                                       ` David Howells
2018-04-04 15:43                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-04-03 23:56                         ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:58                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:39                 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:48                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 23:12               ` David Howells
2018-04-03 23:27                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 23:42                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-04-03 20:53         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 20:54           ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:08               ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:21                 ` Al Viro
2018-04-03 21:37                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-03 21:26                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-04-03 21:32                   ` Matthew Garrett
2018-03-31 10:20 ` David Howells
2018-04-03 13:25   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-04-03 21:48     ` James Morris
2018-04-05 17:53     ` Alan Cox
2018-11-21 12:05 ` [PATCH next-lockdown 0/1] debugfs EPERM fix for 'Kernel lockdown for secure boot' patch series Vasily Gorbik
2018-11-21 12:05   ` [PATCH next-lockdown 1/1] debugfs: avoid EPERM when no open file operation defined Vasily Gorbik
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-04-04  2:34 [GIT PULL] Kernel lockdown for secure boot Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-04  4:31 ` Matthew Garrett
2018-04-08  7:44   ` joeyli
2018-04-08  8:07 ` joeyli
2018-04-09  3:40   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-04-09  8:14     ` Daniel Borkmann
2018-04-09 13:55     ` joeyli
2017-10-26 16:37 David Howells
2017-10-26 18:22 ` Mimi Zohar
2017-10-26 19:20 ` James Morris

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