From: Terje Eggestad <terje.eggestad@scali.com>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>,
Robert Love <rml@tech9.net>, Rob Wilkens <robw@optonline.net>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?
Date: 13 Jan 2003 15:34:00 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1042468439.5404.24.camel@pc-16.office.scali.no> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m14r8dgvbe.fsf@frodo.biederman.org>
On man, 2003-01-13 at 12:09, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com> writes:
>
> > On 12 Jan 2003, Robert Love wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 15:22, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > >
> > > > No, you've been brainwashed by CS people who thought that Niklaus
> > > > Wirth actually knew what he was talking about. He didn't. He
> > > > doesn't have a frigging clue.
> > >
> > > I thought Edsger Dijkstra coined the "gotos are evil" bit in his
> > > structured programming push?
> >
>
> Actually Edsger Dijkstra wrote a paper entitled "Goto considered Harmful"
> He never called them evil. And the title was more for shock value to
> grab peoples attention. For the beginners Dijkstra did not
> distinguish between goto, break, return, and continue.
>
> You can find many of his papers at:
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/
>
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd02xx/EWD215.PDF
to be exact. Reading it you can tell exactly how much of an
mathematician Dijkstra really was. At these times It's best to keep in
mind a quote:
"I used to understand the Theory of Relativity, but then the
mathematicians got hold of it."
-- Albert Einstein
> What he was after was simple and maintainable code, and from
> everything I have read, I think he would have no major problems with
> the Linux kernel code.
>
Well, in the formentioned paper he made the case that while - do, and
do-while are superfluous; we should all use recursion instead.
Out of respect of the dead, I'm not going to say what I think of that.
Since C don't allow goto beyond it's function, most of what was
problematic of goto's aren't legal anyway.
But I submit that those that think goto's are evil never had to deal
with smp locks.
Most goto's I've seen deal with error handling, and I guess much could
be "solved/hidden" with a "on_return { };" clause, but...
An on_return would be a simplified try/trow/catch that is limited to the
function.
IMHO: a trow that is catch'ed somewhere up the call stack, is just as
much an evil as goto.
> > So
> > these days I can only rant about Niklaus Wirth, who took the "structured
> > programming" thing and enforced it in his languages (Pascal and Modula-2),
> > and thus forced his evil on untold generations of poor CS students who had
> > to learn langauges that weren't actually useful for real work.
>
> Now that is something worth criticizing!
>
Considering that students are bottled on Java these day, they're still
learning a language unusable for real work.
> >
> > (Yeah, yeah, most _practical_ versions of Pascal ended up having all the
> > stuff necessary to break structure, but as you may be able to tell, I was
> > one of the unwashed masses who had to write in "standard Pascal" in my
> > youth. I'm scarred for life).
>
>
> Well you seem to be coping well. Just a little Pascal phobia there...
>
> Eric
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
--
_________________________________________________________________________
Terje Eggestad mailto:terje.eggestad@scali.no
Scali Scalable Linux Systems http://www.scali.com
Olaf Helsets Vei 6 tel: +47 22 62 89 61 (OFFICE)
P.O.Box 150, Oppsal +47 975 31 574 (MOBILE)
N-0619 Oslo fax: +47 22 62 89 51
NORWAY
_________________________________________________________________________
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-01-13 14:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 201+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-01-10 16:10 any chance of 2.6.0-test*? William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-10 16:28 ` Dave Jones
2003-01-10 16:41 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-10 17:08 ` Dave Jones
2003-01-10 17:19 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-10 16:40 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-10 17:06 ` Dave Jones
2003-01-10 17:25 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-10 17:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-10 18:47 ` J.A. Magallon
2003-01-10 19:37 ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-10 19:51 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-14 1:39 ` James H. Cloos Jr.
2003-01-15 21:46 ` [PATCH][RESEND w/ reasonable Subject] alsa before oss in Kconfig James H. Cloos Jr.
2003-01-10 18:16 ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Alan Cox
2003-01-10 17:37 ` Jochen Friedrich
2003-01-10 17:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 9:27 ` Greg KH
2003-01-12 16:55 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-12 17:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 17:17 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-12 19:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 19:34 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 19:37 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 19:53 ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-12 20:03 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 15:43 ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-13 15:49 ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 16:25 ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-13 16:26 ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 16:41 ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-13 16:43 ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 17:00 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-13 18:48 ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 22:14 ` Keith Owens
2003-01-13 22:42 ` John Levon
2003-01-13 22:49 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-13 23:32 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-13 23:43 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-12 20:44 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-12 20:45 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-13 13:14 ` Bernd Schmidt
2003-01-12 21:22 ` David Woodhouse
2003-01-18 13:04 ` Folkert van Heusden
2003-01-12 19:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 19:59 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 20:18 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-12 20:23 ` yodaiken
2003-01-12 20:26 ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-12 20:32 ` Sean Neakums
2003-01-12 20:51 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-13 0:54 ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-12 20:46 ` Kevin Puetz
2003-01-13 0:48 ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-18 13:07 ` Folkert van Heusden
2003-01-12 20:20 ` David Ford
2003-01-12 20:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 20:33 ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 20:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-13 10:54 ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-13 11:09 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-13 14:34 ` Terje Eggestad [this message]
2003-01-13 23:23 ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-12 20:48 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 20:59 ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-12 22:48 ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? -> goto example Willy Tarreau
2003-01-13 0:53 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 1:31 ` Willy Tarreau
2003-01-13 16:10 ` Alexander Kellett
2003-01-14 10:36 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-12 23:11 ` Coding style - (Was Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?) John Bradford
2003-01-13 11:07 ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Helge Hafting
2003-01-13 3:30 ` yodaiken
2003-01-12 21:29 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-13 0:03 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-13 0:38 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 3:06 ` [OT] " J Sloan
2003-01-13 16:51 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-13 0:38 ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-12 19:41 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-12 19:41 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 19:58 ` David Ford
2003-01-12 20:07 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 20:31 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 20:34 ` David Ford
2003-01-12 20:31 ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 21:02 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:15 ` Matti Aarnio
2003-01-12 21:27 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:40 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-12 21:44 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:49 ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 22:07 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:18 ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 22:34 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:52 ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 23:11 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:31 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 23:39 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 23:46 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:57 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-13 0:08 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 16:02 ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-12 22:53 ` Sean Neakums
2003-01-12 23:06 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 23:48 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-12 21:58 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 22:12 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:29 ` Olivier Galibert
2003-01-12 23:21 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-12 22:12 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:18 ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 22:35 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 8:15 ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-12 21:49 ` David Ford
2003-01-13 19:22 ` [OffTopic] [apology] " Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:59 ` Adam Kropelin
2003-01-12 22:21 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:33 ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-12 22:36 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 22:38 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:42 ` romieu
2003-01-13 1:06 ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-13 1:21 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 1:51 ` Nuno Monteiro
2003-01-13 2:19 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 2:51 ` Marcelo Pacheco
2003-01-13 3:37 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 4:53 ` Billy Rose
2003-01-13 3:06 ` Jochen Striepe
2003-01-13 3:40 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 9:45 ` Matti Aarnio
2003-01-13 3:48 ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-13 4:37 ` Billy Rose
2003-01-12 22:06 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:22 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:43 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:51 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:00 ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 23:16 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:16 ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-12 23:05 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 23:23 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 23:45 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 23:45 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-13 20:01 ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-12 23:16 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-13 2:00 ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-13 3:09 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-14 2:13 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-12 22:58 ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 22:28 ` Matti Aarnio
2003-01-13 1:26 ` David Lang
2003-01-13 2:00 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-13 11:08 ` How to avoid the woord 'goto' (was Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?) Bernd Petrovitsch
2003-01-13 14:56 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 22:02 ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Val Henson
2003-01-13 10:32 ` gotos in kernel [Was: Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?] Horst von Brand
2003-01-13 14:53 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 13:08 ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Dave Jones
2003-01-13 13:40 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-13 13:49 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-14 6:52 ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-14 7:12 ` Brian Tinsley
2003-01-13 15:23 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13 6:23 ` Greg KH
2003-01-13 16:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-13 18:33 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-13 18:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-13 19:17 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-12 17:37 ` Russell King
2003-01-13 1:08 ` Michael Kingsbury
2003-01-13 1:52 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-10 16:39 Shawn Starr
2003-01-10 17:00 ` Dave Jones
2003-01-11 20:10 ` Horst von Brand
[not found] <20030110144325.T26554@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk>
[not found] ` <20030110.130023.08256524.davem@redhat.com>
2003-01-10 21:48 ` Matthew Wilcox
[not found] <20030110165441$1a8a@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030110165505$38d9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-11 12:27 ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 13:01 ` Russell King
2003-01-11 13:13 ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 14:39 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-11 14:06 ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 15:31 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-11 15:25 ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 19:18 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-13 3:33 ` Paul Mackerras
2003-01-13 14:59 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-13 18:36 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2003-01-19 16:05 ` Pavel Machek
2003-01-12 18:02 David Truog
[not found] <3C6BEE8B5E1BAC42905A93F13004E8AB017DE60F@mailse01.axis.se>
2003-01-12 20:58 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 20:37 Manfred Spraul
2003-01-13 22:37 Albert D. Cahalan
[not found] <20030112201009$1534@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030112204005$7287@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-14 19:53 ` Kai Henningsen
2003-01-15 15:07 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-15 15:18 ` Marcelo Pacheco
2003-01-18 10:12 ` Kai Henningsen
2003-01-15 19:44 ` Werner Almesberger
[not found] <20030112205008$7a5d@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113112009$52fd@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113144017$68de@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-14 20:01 ` Kai Henningsen
[not found] <20030112193012$71b2@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113020015$6883@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113023015$66a6@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113030011$6563@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113035007$451e@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-14 20:18 ` Kai Henningsen
[not found] <20030113001006$005c@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113005007$4766@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030113170014$20a1@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-18 10:21 ` Kai Henningsen
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