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From: Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org>
To: Rob Wilkens <robw@optonline.net>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:45:15 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030113094515.GT27709@mea-ext.zmailer.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1042424368.3162.322.camel@RobsPC.RobertWilkens.com>

On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 09:19:28PM -0500, Rob Wilkens wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 20:51, Nuno Monteiro wrote:
> > You dont realistically expect to learn how to program reading 
> > Documentation/CodingStyle, do you? CodingStyle merely serves as general 
> 
> No, but I would expect rules of kernel coding to be in there.  For
> example, we were talking about using return mid-function.  I always
> considerred that perfectly OK.  Others were saying that's a no-no.  If
> it's a no-no, it should be documented.  That is, if it's a no-no.  That
> may be a situational thing though.


That document is short for several reasons.

- It has been written for particular needs, and updated rarely

- Most long-time kernel coders really don't need detailed guidelines,
  although newcomers (like yourself) apparently want something..



Things you need to understand include at least:

- Linux kernel is one of the most complicated codes that gcc compiler
  is ever put to work on, and over the years we have unearthed tons of
  optimizer bugs.    Many of somewhat odd looking coding details do
  originate from circumventions of those compiler bugs.

- Advanced optimizer hinting features, like   unlikely()  attribute
  are very new in (this) compiler, and while they in theory move the 
  "unlikely" codes out of the fast-path, such things have been buggy
  in the past, and we are worried of bug effects...

- Why code in a manner, where the optimizer needs to work very hard to
  produce fast code, when simplified structures, like those with 'goto'
  in them, can result the same with much less effort ?

- Knowing effects of those optimizations requires profiling, and studying
  produced assembly code on different target systems.

- Linux is multi-CPU-architecture kernel, looking at it via "intel-only,
  lattest Pentium-XIV" viewpoint is not going to cover all cases.  Making
  changes that bloat code will make system that much harder to fit into
  smaller embedded machines.

- Sometimes you need to code differently to achieve higher performance
  at different processors.  See   drivers/md/xor.c   and header files
  it includes.  Especially all  include/asm-*/xor.h  files, including
  include/asm-generic/xor.h ...   (That shows to you how different
  approaches work at different systems.  What works fast in register-
  rich processors does not necessarily be fast in register-poor things,
  like i386 series.)

- Adding function classifiers like "static inline" do change rules 
  somewhat. (Especially things like "mid-function return".)

- Larger code, either with manually replicated exit cleanup (which
  are pain to maintain, when some large-scale change is needed), or
  via excessive use of "static inline", will pressure caches, and
  makes it more likely to drop soon to be again needed code (or data)
  from cache.    Cases where cache-miss costs your tens, or hundreds
  of processor clock cycles that is really important question.

- Explaining things like GCC asm() statement syntaxes isn't a thing
  for Linux kernel documentation.  (Those vary from target processor
  to another!)


I repeat:

To understand effects of various coding details, you need to study produced
assembly code, and keep in mind that in modern processors a branch out of
straight-line execution path (after optimizations) is expensive (in time),
and cache-misses are even more expensive.

Then you need to benchmark those codes with different loads (where 
applicable) to find out what caches affect them -- and when you must
bypass caches (they are limited resource, after all) in order to give
overall improved system performance, when your code does not cause
actively used code or data to be evicted from caches unnecessarily.


> -Rob

/Matti Aarnio

  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-01-13  9:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 201+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-01-10 16:10 any chance of 2.6.0-test*? William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-10 16:28 ` Dave Jones
2003-01-10 16:41   ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-10 17:08     ` Dave Jones
2003-01-10 17:19 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-10 16:40   ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-10 17:06   ` Dave Jones
2003-01-10 17:25     ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-10 17:29     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-10 18:47       ` J.A. Magallon
2003-01-10 19:37         ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-10 19:51         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-14  1:39       ` James H. Cloos Jr.
2003-01-15 21:46         ` [PATCH][RESEND w/ reasonable Subject] alsa before oss in Kconfig James H. Cloos Jr.
2003-01-10 18:16     ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Alan Cox
2003-01-10 17:37   ` Jochen Friedrich
2003-01-10 17:38     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12  9:27   ` Greg KH
2003-01-12 16:55     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-12 17:05     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 17:17       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-12 19:15         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 19:34           ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 19:37             ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 19:53               ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-12 20:03                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 15:43                   ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-13 15:49                     ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 16:25                       ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-13 16:26                         ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 16:41                           ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-13 16:43                             ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 17:00                               ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-13 18:48                                 ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-13 22:14                                   ` Keith Owens
2003-01-13 22:42                                     ` John Levon
2003-01-13 22:49                                   ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-13 23:32                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-13 23:43                                       ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-12 20:44                 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-12 20:45                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-13 13:14                   ` Bernd Schmidt
2003-01-12 21:22                 ` David Woodhouse
2003-01-18 13:04                 ` Folkert van Heusden
2003-01-12 19:38             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 19:59               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 20:18                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-12 20:23                   ` yodaiken
2003-01-12 20:26                   ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-12 20:32                   ` Sean Neakums
2003-01-12 20:51                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-13  0:54                     ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-12 20:46                   ` Kevin Puetz
2003-01-13  0:48                   ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-18 13:07                   ` Folkert van Heusden
2003-01-12 20:20                 ` David Ford
2003-01-12 20:22                 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-12 20:33                   ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 20:33                     ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-13 10:54                       ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-13 11:09                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-13 14:34                         ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-13 23:23                         ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-12 20:48                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 20:59                     ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-12 22:48                     ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? -> goto example Willy Tarreau
2003-01-13  0:53                       ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13  1:31                         ` Willy Tarreau
2003-01-13 16:10                           ` Alexander Kellett
2003-01-14 10:36                             ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-12 23:11                     ` Coding style - (Was Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?) John Bradford
2003-01-13 11:07                     ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Helge Hafting
2003-01-13  3:30                   ` yodaiken
2003-01-12 21:29                 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-13  0:03                 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-13  0:38                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13  3:06                     ` [OT] " J Sloan
2003-01-13 16:51                     ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-13  0:38                 ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-12 19:41             ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-12 19:41               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 19:58                 ` David Ford
2003-01-12 20:07                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 20:31                     ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 20:34                     ` David Ford
2003-01-12 20:31             ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 21:02               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:15             ` Matti Aarnio
2003-01-12 21:27               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:40                 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-12 21:44                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:49                     ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 22:07                       ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:18                         ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 22:34                           ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:52                             ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 23:11                               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:31                                 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 23:39                                 ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 23:46                                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:57                                     ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-13  0:08                                       ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 16:02                                         ` Terje Eggestad
2003-01-12 22:53                             ` Sean Neakums
2003-01-12 23:06                             ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 23:48                             ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-12 21:58                     ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 22:12                       ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:29                         ` Olivier Galibert
2003-01-12 23:21                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-12 22:12                     ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:18                       ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-01-12 22:35                         ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13  8:15                     ` Jens Axboe
2003-01-12 21:49                 ` David Ford
2003-01-13 19:22                   ` [OffTopic] [apology] " Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 21:59                 ` Adam Kropelin
2003-01-12 22:21                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:33                     ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-12 22:36                     ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 22:38                     ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:42                     ` romieu
2003-01-13  1:06                     ` Randy Dunlap
2003-01-13  1:21                       ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13  1:51                         ` Nuno Monteiro
2003-01-13  2:19                           ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13  2:51                             ` Marcelo Pacheco
2003-01-13  3:37                               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13  4:53                               ` Billy Rose
2003-01-13  3:06                             ` Jochen Striepe
2003-01-13  3:40                               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13  9:45                             ` Matti Aarnio [this message]
2003-01-13  3:48                         ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-13  4:37                   ` Billy Rose
2003-01-12 22:06                 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:22                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 22:43                     ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 22:51                       ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:00                         ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 23:16                           ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 23:16                           ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-12 23:05                         ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 23:23                           ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-12 23:45                             ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-12 23:45                             ` Emiliano Gabrielli
2003-01-13 20:01                             ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-12 23:16                         ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-13  2:00                         ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-13  3:09                           ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-14  2:13                             ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-12 22:58                     ` Robert Love
2003-01-12 22:28                 ` Matti Aarnio
2003-01-13  1:26                 ` David Lang
2003-01-13  2:00                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-13 11:08                 ` How to avoid the woord 'goto' (was Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?) Bernd Petrovitsch
2003-01-13 14:56                   ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 22:02                 ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Val Henson
2003-01-13 10:32             ` gotos in kernel [Was: Re: any chance of 2.6.0-test*?] Horst von Brand
2003-01-13 14:53               ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 13:08             ` any chance of 2.6.0-test*? Dave Jones
2003-01-13 13:40               ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-13 13:49               ` Oliver Neukum
2003-01-14  6:52               ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-14  7:12                 ` Brian Tinsley
2003-01-13 15:23             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13  6:23           ` Greg KH
2003-01-13 16:35             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-13 18:33               ` Alan Cox
2003-01-13 18:01                 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-01-13 19:17                 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-12 17:37       ` Russell King
2003-01-13  1:08 ` Michael Kingsbury
2003-01-13  1:52   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-01-10 16:39 Shawn Starr
2003-01-10 17:00 ` Dave Jones
2003-01-11 20:10 ` Horst von Brand
     [not found] <20030110144325.T26554@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk>
     [not found] ` <20030110.130023.08256524.davem@redhat.com>
2003-01-10 21:48   ` Matthew Wilcox
     [not found] <20030110165441$1a8a@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <20030110165505$38d9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-11 12:27   ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 13:01     ` Russell King
2003-01-11 13:13       ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 14:39     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-11 14:06       ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 15:31         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-11 15:25           ` Andi Kleen
2003-01-11 19:18             ` Alan Cox
2003-01-13  3:33               ` Paul Mackerras
2003-01-13 14:59                 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-13 18:36                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2003-01-19 16:05         ` Pavel Machek
2003-01-12 18:02 David Truog
     [not found] <3C6BEE8B5E1BAC42905A93F13004E8AB017DE60F@mailse01.axis.se>
2003-01-12 20:58 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-13 20:37 Manfred Spraul
2003-01-13 22:37 Albert D. Cahalan
     [not found] <20030112201009$1534@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <20030112204005$7287@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-14 19:53   ` Kai Henningsen
2003-01-15 15:07     ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-15 15:18       ` Marcelo Pacheco
2003-01-18 10:12       ` Kai Henningsen
2003-01-15 19:44     ` Werner Almesberger
     [not found] <20030112205008$7a5d@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <20030113112009$52fd@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <20030113144017$68de@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-14 20:01     ` Kai Henningsen
     [not found] <20030112193012$71b2@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <20030113020015$6883@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <20030113023015$66a6@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <20030113030011$6563@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <20030113035007$451e@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-14 20:18         ` Kai Henningsen
     [not found] <20030113001006$005c@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <20030113005007$4766@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <20030113170014$20a1@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-01-18 10:21     ` Kai Henningsen

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