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From: Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>
To: Paul Davis <paul@linuxaudiosystems.com>
Cc: Con Kolivas <kernel@kolivas.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	lkml@s2y4n2c.de, rlrevell@joe-job.com, arjanv@redhat.com,
	joq@io.com, chrisw@osdl.org, mpm@selenic.com, hch@infradead.org,
	mingo@elte.hu, alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] [request for inclusion] Realtime LSM
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:14:52 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1105679692.5402.125.camel@npiggin-nld.site> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200501140445.j0E4j94k001522@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 23:45 -0500, Paul Davis wrote:
> >Alternatively, could you grant the required capabilities to use real
> >RT scheduling and not foul up the scheduler?
> 
> this is precisely the point i was making. either you agree that
> unprivileged users can get easy access to a scheduling class that can
> reliably DOS the system, or they can't. if they can't, what kind of
> scheduling class can they access easily?
> 
> according to andrew, and i agree with his conclusion, many people
> agree that its OK for them to get access to the DOS class, but there's
> little agreement on the security model to allow this. Con is
> suggesting that they are not, but instead get a different scheduling
> class that is functionally equivalent except that it can't
> (theoretically) be used to DOS the system.

Well IMO that would be preferable if there are no other objections.
I can't think how any sort of unprivileged "real time" scheduling
would have a place on multi-user systems.

And if it is only really used on single user systems then presumably
the priority elevation isn't a big problem provided it can be properly
managed. So this would appear to be the better solution.

Supposing you do want some sort of DOS prevention in the system, I'd
much prefer it be handled by a trusted user-space daemon for example,
rather than scheduler smarts (which may require a little bit of work
to limit priorities but would be relatively straightforward).




  reply	other threads:[~2005-01-14  5:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 266+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-12-30  2:43 [PATCH] [request for inclusion] Realtime LSM Lee Revell
2005-01-03 14:03 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-03 14:15   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 16:40     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-04 18:16   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-04 18:20     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-04 18:55       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-04 18:59         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  0:01           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-05  1:28             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:30             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:50             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  1:55               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  2:05                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  2:58                   ` Kyle Moffett
2005-01-05  3:45                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  4:06                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05 11:52                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-05 15:19                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 15:21                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 12:56                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 13:04                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 14:16                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 14:26                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 14:38                             ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 14:42                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 15:27                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 15:33                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 15:41                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:03                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 16:20                                         ` Takashi Iwai
2005-01-08  5:36                                           ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-08  6:21                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 16:20                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 21:12                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 21:49                                             ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-07 22:07                                               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-07 22:36                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 23:01                                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-07 23:20                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-07 23:34                                                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-10 21:05                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 22:10                                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 22:26                                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 22:29                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-08  6:12                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-08 16:56                                                     ` ross
2005-01-08 18:25                                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-08 22:20                                                       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-08 22:27                                                         ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-08 22:14                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-10 21:20                                                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 13:05                                                       ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 16:28                                                         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 18:59                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 20:47                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-11 21:07                                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 19:17                                                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 19:42                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 20:50                                                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 20:58                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 21:14                                                               ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:27                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 22:13                                                                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:26                                                                     ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-12  3:21                                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-12  4:29                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-13  5:44                                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13  6:34                                                                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-13 19:17                                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14 20:52                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-15  0:42                                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  2:19                                                                             ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-01-15  4:06                                                                               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 13:49                                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-15 23:02                                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 23:38                                                                         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16 23:13                                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-16 23:57                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-17  9:17                                                                               ` Sytse Wielinga
2005-01-17 14:36                                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-17 10:06                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-18  5:02                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-18  8:02                                                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-18 17:05                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-19  8:24                                                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-19 14:39                                                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-19 17:45                                                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-19 18:32                                                                                             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-20  8:07                                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-20  8:05                                                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 14:30                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 19:50                                                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 19:57                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 20:05                                                             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 20:29                                                               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 20:47                                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:10                                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 21:20                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:28                                                                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 21:38                                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 21:41                                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-11 22:51                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 23:05                                                                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-12  1:43                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-12  7:49                                                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-12 21:12                                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-01-13  0:44                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13  7:28                                                                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 21:04                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13 21:07                                                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 21:25                                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-13 21:43                                                                                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 23:31                                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14  0:33                                                                                               ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14  0:50                                                                                               ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  1:20                                                                                                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14  1:27                                                                                                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14 17:20                                                                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2005-01-15  1:14                                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  8:06                                                                                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2005-01-15 23:48                                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14  2:05                                                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:08                                                                                             ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  2:23                                                                                               ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  2:35                                                                                               ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:42                                                                                                 ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:20                                                                                                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  3:28                                                                                                     ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  3:26                                                                                                   ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:24                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  2:40                                                                                               ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  2:57                                                                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:12                                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  3:18                                                                                                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:30                                                                                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  3:38                                                                                                       ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:51                                                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  4:00                                                                                                           ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  4:16                                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  4:04                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:31                                                                                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:34                                                                                                       ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  4:11                                                                                                       ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  4:23                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  4:45                                                                                                           ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  5:14                                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin [this message]
2005-01-14  9:21                                                                                                       ` Will Dyson
2005-01-14  9:54                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  6:57                                                                                                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14  7:04                                                                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  7:55                                                                                                       ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14 20:10                                                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14 20:55                                                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14 23:04                                                                                                         ` Chris Wright
2005-01-15  0:58                                                                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 22:05                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 21:42                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:16                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 22:21                                                                         ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:36                                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-11 22:41                                                                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:17                                                                     ` utz
2005-01-11 22:48                                                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 23:06                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-12  2:13                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-12 19:09                                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-12 21:25                                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 20:19                                                             ` Chris Friesen
2005-01-11 22:45                                                           ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 21:21                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-12  2:10                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  4:56                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 14:43                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-15 23:10                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16  1:48                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16  4:30                                                               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16 23:22                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-07 23:00                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 22:22                                               ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 22:44                                               ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-07 16:03                                       ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:22                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-08 13:04                                           ` Paul Jakma
2005-01-07 14:47                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 15:26                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:08                                   ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:14                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:29                                       ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:36                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 17:06                                           ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:29                                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 17:32                                               ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:38                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 19:55                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 16:37                                         ` Takashi Iwai
2005-01-07 16:41                                           ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:53                                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 18:01                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05 18:18                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05  4:04             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05 11:25           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 17:32             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 19:11               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 11:20         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-04 18:57       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:35         ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-05  4:18           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-05  5:50             ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-05 12:06               ` Herbert Poetzl
2005-01-07  1:13                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07  1:55                   ` Alan Cox
2005-01-07 20:05                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-05 20:09               ` Olaf Dietsche
2005-01-07  1:18             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07  2:36               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07  5:54               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 20:02                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 20:21                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 20:27                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 20:46                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 20:55                       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 21:20                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 21:29                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 20:45                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 11:39           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 17:35             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 19:11               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 11:24         ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found] <20050112185258.GG2940@waste.org>
2005-01-12 21:16 ` Paul Davis
2005-03-08  3:50   ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  3:55     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08  4:16       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  4:22         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  4:28           ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  4:32             ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08  4:47               ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  4:58                 ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08 18:55               ` Lee Revell
2005-03-08 19:11                 ` Paul Davis
2005-03-08 20:29                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08 21:20                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08 21:34                   ` Lee Revell
2005-03-08 23:55                     ` James Morris
2005-03-08  5:19           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-08  4:33     ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  4:40       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  5:30         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-08  6:33           ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-09  3:39             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-09  3:44               ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-09  4:04                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-10 14:01           ` Pavel Machek
2005-03-08  5:40         ` Peter Williams
2005-03-08  5:49           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:28             ` Peter Williams
2005-03-08  6:40               ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:42                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:00           ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:18           ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  5:38       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:45       ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:49         ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  6:55       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  8:45         ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08 19:17       ` utz lehmann

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