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From: "Jack O'Quin" <joq@io.com>
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	paul@linuxaudiosystems.com, mpm@selenic.com,
	cfriesen@nortelnetworks.com, chrisw@osdl.org,
	rlrevell@joe-job.com, arjanv@redhat.com,
	alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] [request for inclusion] Realtime LSM
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 23:19:55 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87r7iqsohw.fsf@sulphur.joq.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20050308042242.GA15356@elte.hu> (Ingo Molnar's message of "Tue, 8 Mar 2005 05:22:42 +0100")


> * Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org> wrote:
>
>> Still.  It seems to be what we deserve if all that fancy stuff we have
>> cannot address this very simple and very real-world problem.

Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> writes:
> please describe this "very simple and very real-world problem" in simple
> terms. Lets make sure "problem" and "solution" didnt become detached.

Linux audio users need to run large, complex low-latency desktop audio
applications without granting them full root privileges.  These
applications require reliable SCHED_FIFO (or equivalent) scheduling,
and the ability to lock process images into memory.  We need to be
able to drop and reacquire these privileges from time to time.  We
strongly prefer using the POSIX realtime interfaces.

For desktop musicians this needs to be simple to administer, yet still
reasonably secure.  Denial of service attacks are not a serious threat
in our environment, but we really don't want people turning our
systems into open spam relays or creating hidden setuid root shells.

Ours is *not* a timesharing multiuser environment.  Multiple users may
access these systems, but only one at a time.  Many musicians have a
Mac or Windows background, systems which grant realtime privileges to
all tasks indiscriminantly.  The realtime LSM allows us to grant
similar privileges while maintaining better control over who gets
them, a significant improvement over our competition.

AFAICT, video and probably some other desktop multimedia applications
have similar needs, but others should speak for them.  I do know that
audio is highly sensitive to realtime performance glitches.

We believe that this LSM meets our needs, because hundreds of us have
used it successfully for over a year.  This is the last missing piece
that allows us to reap the benefits of the excellent kernel latency
improvements Ingo, Andrew and others have made over the last several
years.
-- 
  joq

  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-03-08  5:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 266+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20050112185258.GG2940@waste.org>
2005-01-12 21:16 ` [PATCH] [request for inclusion] Realtime LSM Paul Davis
2005-03-08  3:50   ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  3:55     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08  4:16       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  4:22         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  4:28           ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  4:32             ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08  4:47               ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  4:58                 ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08 18:55               ` Lee Revell
2005-03-08 19:11                 ` Paul Davis
2005-03-08 20:29                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08 21:20                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-03-08 21:34                   ` Lee Revell
2005-03-08 23:55                     ` James Morris
2005-03-08  5:19           ` Jack O'Quin [this message]
2005-03-08  4:33     ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  4:40       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  5:30         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-08  6:33           ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-09  3:39             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-09  3:44               ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-09  4:04                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-03-10 14:01           ` Pavel Machek
2005-03-08  5:40         ` Peter Williams
2005-03-08  5:49           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:28             ` Peter Williams
2005-03-08  6:40               ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:42                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:00           ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:18           ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  5:38       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-03-08  6:45       ` Chris Wright
2005-03-08  6:49         ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08  6:55       ` Andrew Morton
2005-03-08  8:45         ` Matt Mackall
2005-03-08 19:17       ` utz lehmann
2004-12-30  2:43 Lee Revell
2005-01-03 14:03 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-03 14:15   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 16:40     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-04 18:16   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-04 18:20     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-04 18:55       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-04 18:59         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  0:01           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-05  1:28             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:30             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:50             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  1:55               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  2:05                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  2:58                   ` Kyle Moffett
2005-01-05  3:45                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05  4:06                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05 11:52                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-05 15:19                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 15:21                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 12:56                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 13:04                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 14:16                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 14:26                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 14:38                             ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 14:42                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 15:27                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 15:33                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 15:41                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:03                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-07 16:20                                         ` Takashi Iwai
2005-01-08  5:36                                           ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-08  6:21                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 16:20                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 21:12                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 21:49                                             ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-07 22:07                                               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-07 22:36                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 23:01                                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-07 23:20                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-07 23:34                                                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-10 21:05                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 22:10                                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 22:26                                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 22:29                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-08  6:12                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-08 16:56                                                     ` ross
2005-01-08 18:25                                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-08 22:20                                                       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-08 22:27                                                         ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-08 22:14                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-10 21:20                                                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 13:05                                                       ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 16:28                                                         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 18:59                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 20:47                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-11 21:07                                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 19:17                                                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 19:42                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 20:50                                                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 20:58                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 21:14                                                               ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:27                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 22:13                                                                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:26                                                                     ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-12  3:21                                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-12  4:29                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-13  5:44                                                                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13  6:34                                                                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-13 19:17                                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14 20:52                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-15  0:42                                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  2:19                                                                             ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-01-15  4:06                                                                               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 13:49                                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-15 23:02                                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 23:38                                                                         ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16 23:13                                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-16 23:57                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-17  9:17                                                                               ` Sytse Wielinga
2005-01-17 14:36                                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-17 10:06                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-18  5:02                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-18  8:02                                                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-18 17:05                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-19  8:24                                                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-19 14:39                                                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-19 17:45                                                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-19 18:32                                                                                             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-20  8:07                                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-20  8:05                                                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-11 14:30                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 19:50                                                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 19:57                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-11 20:05                                                             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 20:29                                                               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 20:47                                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:10                                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 21:20                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 21:28                                                                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 21:38                                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 21:41                                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-11 22:51                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 23:05                                                                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-12  1:43                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-12  7:49                                                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-12 21:12                                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-01-13  0:44                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13  7:28                                                                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 21:04                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-13 21:07                                                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 21:25                                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-01-13 21:43                                                                                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-13 23:31                                                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14  0:33                                                                                               ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14  0:50                                                                                               ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  1:20                                                                                                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14  1:27                                                                                                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14 17:20                                                                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2005-01-15  1:14                                                                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  8:06                                                                                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2005-01-15 23:48                                                                                                     ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-14  2:05                                                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:08                                                                                             ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  2:23                                                                                               ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  2:35                                                                                               ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:42                                                                                                 ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:20                                                                                                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  3:28                                                                                                     ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  3:26                                                                                                   ` utz lehmann
2005-01-14  2:24                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  2:40                                                                                               ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  2:57                                                                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:12                                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  3:18                                                                                                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:30                                                                                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  3:38                                                                                                       ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  3:51                                                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  4:00                                                                                                           ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  4:16                                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  4:04                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:31                                                                                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  3:34                                                                                                       ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  4:11                                                                                                       ` Con Kolivas
2005-01-14  4:23                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  4:45                                                                                                           ` Paul Davis
2005-01-14  5:14                                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  9:21                                                                                                       ` Will Dyson
2005-01-14  9:54                                                                                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-01-14  6:57                                                                                                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14  7:04                                                                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-14  7:55                                                                                                       ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14 20:10                                                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-14 20:55                                                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-14 23:04                                                                                                         ` Chris Wright
2005-01-15  0:58                                                                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 22:05                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 21:42                                                                     ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:16                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 22:21                                                                         ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:36                                                                           ` utz lehmann
2005-01-11 22:41                                                                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-11 22:17                                                                     ` utz
2005-01-11 22:48                                                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 23:06                                                                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-12  2:13                                                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-12 19:09                                                                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-12 21:25                                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-11 20:19                                                             ` Chris Friesen
2005-01-11 22:45                                                           ` Paul Davis
2005-01-11 21:21                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-12  2:10                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15  4:56                                                       ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-15 14:43                                                         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-15 23:10                                                           ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16  1:48                                                             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16  4:30                                                               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-16 23:22                                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-01-07 23:00                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 22:22                                               ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 22:44                                               ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-07 16:03                                       ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:22                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-08 13:04                                           ` Paul Jakma
2005-01-07 14:47                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 15:26                                 ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:08                                   ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:14                                     ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 16:29                                       ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 16:36                                         ` Paul Davis
2005-01-07 17:06                                           ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:29                                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 17:32                                               ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:38                                                 ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 19:55                                                 ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 16:37                                         ` Takashi Iwai
2005-01-07 16:41                                           ` Martin Mares
2005-01-07 17:53                                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 18:01                             ` Chris Wright
2005-01-05 18:18                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05  4:04             ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-05 11:25           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 17:32             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 19:11               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 11:20         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-04 18:57       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05  1:35         ` Andreas Steinmetz
2005-01-05  4:18           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-05  5:50             ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-05 12:06               ` Herbert Poetzl
2005-01-07  1:13                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07  1:55                   ` Alan Cox
2005-01-07 20:05                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-05 20:09               ` Olaf Dietsche
2005-01-07  1:18             ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07  2:36               ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07  5:54               ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 20:02                 ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 20:21                   ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 20:27                   ` Jack O'Quin
2005-01-07 20:46                     ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 20:55                       ` Lee Revell
2005-01-07 21:20                         ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-07 21:29                           ` Chris Wright
2005-01-07 20:45                   ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 11:39           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 17:35             ` Lee Revell
2005-01-05 19:11               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-05 11:24         ` Christoph Hellwig

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