Expanding the use of DMA buffers in 3.3

Expanding the use of DMA buffers in 3.3

[Robert Morell]

The DMA buffer infrastructure (dma-buf) currently exposes its interface
with EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.  The documentation for EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL says:
    "It implies that the function is considered an internal
    implementation issue, and not really an interface."
This interface is clearly not just an "implementation issue" but an
interface to be used across drivers/subsystems, so I think it makes
sense for it to use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

Work on dma-buf was originally started with the goal of unifying several
competing "memory management" systems developed with different ARM SoCs
in mind.  It would be unfortunate if restricting its use to only
GPL-licensed modules caused dma-buf adoption to be limited.

For convenience, I'll send the trivial patch to implement this change.
I'd like to see this in the first release with dma-buf in 3.3.

Thanks,
Robert

[PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>
---
 drivers/base/dma-buf.c |   16 ++++++++--------
 1 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)

diff --git a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
index e38ad24..4ed5a5d 100644
--- a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
+++ b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
@@ -101,7 +101,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_export(void *priv, struct dma_buf_ops *ops,
 
 	return dmabuf;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_export);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_export);
 
 
 /**
@@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ int dma_buf_fd(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 
 	return fd;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_fd);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_fd);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_get - returns the dma_buf structure related to an fd
@@ -152,7 +152,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_get(int fd)
 
 	return file->private_data;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_get);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_get);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_put - decreases refcount of the buffer
@@ -167,7 +167,7 @@ void dma_buf_put(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
 
 	fput(dmabuf->file);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_put);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_put);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_attach - Add the device to dma_buf's attachments list; optionally,
@@ -213,7 +213,7 @@ err_attach:
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	return ERR_PTR(ret);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_attach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_attach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_detach - Remove the given attachment from dmabuf's attachments list;
@@ -235,7 +235,7 @@ void dma_buf_detach(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct dma_buf_attachment *attach)
 	mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
 	kfree(attach);
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_detach);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_detach);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_map_attachment - Returns the scatterlist table of the attachment;
@@ -265,7 +265,7 @@ struct sg_table *dma_buf_map_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 
 	return sg_table;
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
 
 /**
  * dma_buf_unmap_attachment - unmaps and decreases usecount of the buffer;might
@@ -288,4 +288,4 @@ void dma_buf_unmap_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
 	mutex_unlock(&attach->dmabuf->lock);
 
 }
-EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
-- 
1.7.3.4

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Semwal, Sumit]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.

+ Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.

Best regards,
~Sumit.
<snip>

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:08:17 -0800
Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:

> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>

Please get a Signed-off-by: from the original authors. In some eyes you
are making what is a licensing change, and that needs the rights holders
permissions.

So this patch at the very least needs approval from TI and Linaro.

Re: Expanding the use of DMA buffers in 3.3

[Alan Cox]

> in mind.  It would be unfortunate if restricting its use to only
> GPL-licensed modules caused dma-buf adoption to be limited.

You appear confused. I'll say this again is my lawyer advises me that for
the benefit of any future enforcement actions I should remind people
each time it comes up.

For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.

We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.

While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
encourage those either.

NAK

	Arnd

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>> > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>>
>> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
>
> We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
> that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
> subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
> with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.
>
> While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
> not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
> by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
> Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
> of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
> encourage those either.

The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
don't forsee that happening.

>From an X.org point of view it would be useful to end-users to allow
this sort of thing, nouveau is a good solution its just not going to
beat the binary driver in a lot of ways, just not sure whether I care
enough yet.

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em 18-01-2012 10:14, Arnd Bergmann escreveu:
> On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>>> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>>> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>>> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>>
>> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
> 
> We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
> that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
> subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
> with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.
> 
> While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
> not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
> by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
> Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
> of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
> encourage those either.
> 
> NAK

I fully agree with Arnd.

A bug on a driver using such low-level interface could cause side effects
at the wrong places. In order to handle such bugs, the developers and the
maintainers of both subsystems need to see the source code of the entire
pipeline, with is not possible if is there any non-GPL'd driver.

NAK

Mauro.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Ilija Hadzic]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:

>
> The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> don't forsee that happening.
>

Please correct me if I blab a nonsense here, but just the other day, we 
have seen a different thread in which it was decided that user cannot turn 
on buffer sharing at compile time explicitly, but rather a driver that 
needs it would turn it on automatically.

Doesn't that alone exclude out-of-tree drivers? In other words if you have 
two out-of-tree drivers that want to use DMA buffer sharing, and no other 
enabled driver in the kernel enables it implicitly, then such a kernel 
won't make it possible for said two drivers to work.

On a related note, EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL will still happily link with 
out-of-tree driver, for as long as that driver comes under GPL-compatible 
license. So it's not really a question of whether the driver is 
out-of-tree or in-tree, but it's a question of driver's license.

Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is 
kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to 
EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to 
license controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To 
me it's about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly 
phylosophical reasons) agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link 
against non-GPL module.

>From that angle, I am not sure if it is ethical at all to modify how the 
symbol is exported without explicit consent of the original author 
(regardless of what we think about GPL/proprietary modules covtroversy). 
So if NVidia needs to link DMA buffer sharing against their proprietary 
driver, they should have explicit permission from the original author to 
turn its symbols into EXPORT_SYMBOL.

-- Ilija

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Ilija Hadzic
<ihadzic@research.bell-labs.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:
>
>>
>> The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
>> subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
>> Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
>> and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
>> don't forsee that happening.
>>
>
> Please correct me if I blab a nonsense here, but just the other day, we have
> seen a different thread in which it was decided that user cannot turn on
> buffer sharing at compile time explicitly, but rather a driver that needs it
> would turn it on automatically.
>
> Doesn't that alone exclude out-of-tree drivers? In other words if you have
> two out-of-tree drivers that want to use DMA buffer sharing, and no other
> enabled driver in the kernel enables it implicitly, then such a kernel won't
> make it possible for said two drivers to work.

Well the use case at least on x86 would be open x86 driver sharing
with closed nvidia driver, if two closed drivers wanted to share I'd
except them to do it internally anyways.

> Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is
> kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to
> EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to license
> controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To me it's
> about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly phylosophical reasons)
> agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link against non-GPL module.
>
> From that angle, I am not sure if it is ethical at all to modify how the
> symbol is exported without explicit consent of the original author
> (regardless of what we think about GPL/proprietary modules covtroversy). So
> if NVidia needs to link DMA buffer sharing against their proprietary driver,
> they should have explicit permission from the original author to turn its
> symbols into EXPORT_SYMBOL.

Which is the point of their patch, to ask permission from the author.

Dave.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Ilija Hadzic wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:
> 
> >
> > The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> > subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> > Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> > and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> > don't forsee that happening.
> >

A lot of good stuff is coming out of nvidia these days regarding for
their tegra ARM socs. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the same
boat as Intel and AMD regarding their support for free drivers in
the near future and I think it's worth supporting the people inside
of nvidia that are fighting for that instead of the others that are
against it.

Having more interesting features in nouveau that are not in the
proprietary driver would probably help on that front, too.

> Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is 
> kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to 
> EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to 
> license controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To 
> me it's about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly 
> phylosophical reasons) agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link 
> against non-GPL module.

The controversy is about whether a module is a derived work of the kernel
when you link it in. Traditionally, some modules were not considered
derived works by a lot of people arguing that we have a public module
interface that acts as a barrier for the license in the same way that
the syscall interface lets you run proprietary applications.

The EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is all about symbols that are too low-level
to be considered part of that public module API (assuming that this
API exists). The argument is that symbols which are not meant to be
used in third-party modules can never be a license barrier and
anything using them is a derived work even if you consider other
modules not to be a derived work of the kernel. Note that this
argument can still hold for low-level symbols that are marked as
EXPORT_SYMBOL, using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL just makes it explicit.

	Arnd

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 06:00:54AM -0800, Dave Airlie wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Ilija Hadzic
> <ihadzic@research.bell-labs.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dave Airlie wrote:
> >> The problem is the x86 nvidia binary driver does sit outside of
> >> subsystems, and I forsee wanting to share buffers with it from the
> >> Intel driver in light of the optimus hardware. Although nouveau exists
> >> and I'd much rather nvidia get behind that wrt the kernel stuff, I
> >> don't forsee that happening.

Yes, this is one potential use case that I have in mind.

This is digressing a bit, but the binary nvidia driver is the best way
that I see that we can support our users with a feature set compatible
to that available to other operating systems.  For technical reasons,
we've chosen to leverage a lot of common code written internally, which
allows us to release support for new hardware and software features much
more quickly than if those of us working on the Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris
drivers wrote it all from scratch.  This means that we share a lot with
other NVIDIA drivers, but we for better or worse can't share much
infrastructure like DRI.

> > Please correct me if I blab a nonsense here, but just the other day, we have
> > seen a different thread in which it was decided that user cannot turn on
> > buffer sharing at compile time explicitly, but rather a driver that needs it
> > would turn it on automatically.
> >
> > Doesn't that alone exclude out-of-tree drivers? In other words if you have
> > two out-of-tree drivers that want to use DMA buffer sharing, and no other
> > enabled driver in the kernel enables it implicitly, then such a kernel won't
> > make it possible for said two drivers to work.
> 
> Well the use case at least on x86 would be open x86 driver sharing
> with closed nvidia driver, if two closed drivers wanted to share I'd
> except them to do it internally anyways.

Correct.  Right now, that covers Optimus laptops with Intel integrated
graphics and an NVIDIA GPU.  We'd only use the dma-buf interface in the
case of interoperating with the Intel device.

I only see such hardware becoming more common.  For example, in the
future, if we can't agree on using EXPORT_SYMBOL, then if somebody were
to introduce a laptop that had a Tegra GPU (which uses GPL-compatible
open-source Linux drivers) and a GeForce GPU (which is, as described
above, supported by our existing binary driver) then I imagine we'd have
no choice but to re-implement a different open-source buffer allocation
mechanism for Tegra that could be used between the two, or just continue
using our existing nvhost code.  This, along with every other SoC's
version, is exactly what the dma-buf project was intended to replace.

> > Frankly, I never understood this "low-level interface" argument that is
> > kicked around when EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL topic is brought up. My view to
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL vs. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is that it really boils down to license
> > controversy about binary/proprietary modules in Linux kernel. To me it's
> > about whether the authors of certain code (for mostly phylosophical reasons)
> > agree that their (GPL) code is OK or not OK to link against non-GPL module.
> >
> > From that angle, I am not sure if it is ethical at all to modify how the
> > symbol is exported without explicit consent of the original author
> > (regardless of what we think about GPL/proprietary modules covtroversy). So
> > if NVidia needs to link DMA buffer sharing against their proprietary driver,
> > they should have explicit permission from the original author to turn its
> > symbols into EXPORT_SYMBOL.
> 
> Which is the point of their patch, to ask permission from the author.

Right.  I never intended to submit this patch behind anyone's back, I
just wanted to bring this to their attention and ask if the change could
be made so that we could better serve shared-graphics users.

Thanks,
Robert

Re: Expanding the use of DMA buffers in 3.3

[Pekka Enberg]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> The DMA buffer infrastructure (dma-buf) currently exposes its interface
> with EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.  The documentation for EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL says:
>    "It implies that the function is considered an internal
>    implementation issue, and not really an interface."
> This interface is clearly not just an "implementation issue" but an
> interface to be used across drivers/subsystems, so I think it makes
> sense for it to use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>
> Work on dma-buf was originally started with the goal of unifying several
> competing "memory management" systems developed with different ARM SoCs
> in mind.  It would be unfortunate if restricting its use to only
> GPL-licensed modules caused dma-buf adoption to be limited.
>
> For convenience, I'll send the trivial patch to implement this change.
> I'd like to see this in the first release with dma-buf in 3.3.

How about you open up your driver code instead? You'd get access to
all EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL symbols instantly!

                        Pekka

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Dave Airlie]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
<mchehab@redhat.com> wrote:
> Em 18-01-2012 10:14, Arnd Bergmann escreveu:
>> On Wednesday 18 January 2012, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>>>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>>>> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>>>> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>>>> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>>>
>>> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>>> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>>> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
>>
>> We discussed this before. The reason for using EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL here is
>> that the interface is low-level and that it's meant to be used by
>> subsystems that export user-level interface based on that and come
>> with their own device driver interface, such as V4L or DRM.
>>
>> While there is an eternal debate over whether there should or should
>> not be out of tree device drivers, I think there is very little to gain
>> by allowing dma_buf to be used by out of tree *subsystems*.
>> Further, a device driver that tries to use the interface but sits outside
>> of the regular subsystems is a bad technical choice and we should not
>> encourage those either.
>>
>> NAK
>
> I fully agree with Arnd.
>
> A bug on a driver using such low-level interface could cause side effects
> at the wrong places. In order to handle such bugs, the developers and the
> maintainers of both subsystems need to see the source code of the entire
> pipeline, with is not possible if is there any non-GPL'd driver.

Just as an aside you shouldn't be debugging tainted kernels anyways.

The thing is if we don't provide the interface that is known working
for this, then we end up requiring the nvidia binary to jump through
hoops which is more likely to make thing unstable.

At that point I'd start to seriously consider whether drm needs
dma-buf since one of the things I will get pressure to share buffers
with is for optimus. The pressure isn't from nvidia, but from users
and customers.

I'd like to at least remove debuggabilty from the argument, that is
why we have tainting, if you ignore taint + lsmod output then
export_symbol won't matter.

Dave.

>
> NAK
>
> Mauro.
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Robert Morell]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> 
> + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
> suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.

This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?

Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Robert

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:04:57AM -0800, Robert Morell wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> > 
> > + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I

I am going to defer to what David Airlie recommends.

> > suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
> 
> This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?
> 
> Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
> dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
> proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
> the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
> argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
> technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
> can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
> will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
> appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions.
> 
> Thanks,
> Robert

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Daniel Vetter]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:04:57AM -0800, Robert Morell wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> > > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> > > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> > > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> > > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
> > 
> > + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
> > EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
> > suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
> 
> This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?
> 
> Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
> dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
> proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
> the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
> argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
> technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
> can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
> will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
> appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.

Given that I've participated quite a bit in the design of dma_buf as-is,
let me throw in my totally irrelevant opinion, too ;-)

I'll refrain from comment on the actual patch, it's obviously a hot topic.
Furthermore I might need to ask Intel's legal dep for guidance to asses
things wrt my own contributions to dma_buf.

Otoh I'd like nvidia to be on board, especially when we're desingned
additions to dma_buf required to make it really work for multiple gpus. In
additions it looks like that the nvidia blob will only be an importer of a
dma_buf, at least for the use-cases discussed here.

So why don't you just ditch this patch here and add a small shim to your
blob to interface with drm's prime as an importing driver? I personally
would deem that acceptable and I think Dave wouldn't mind too much,
either.

Yours, Daniel

Disclaimer: This is my own opinion and I do not speak as an Intel employee
here.
-- 
Daniel Vetter
Mail: daniel@ffwll.ch
Mobile: +41 (0)79 365 57 48

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Semwal, Sumit]

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:04:57AM -0800, Robert Morell wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:10:04AM -0800, Semwal, Sumit wrote:
>> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
>> > > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
>> > > issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
>> > > explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
>> > > should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.
>> >
>> > + Konrad, Arnd, Mauro: there were strong objections on using
>> > EXPORT_SYMBOL in place of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL by all 3 of them; I
>> > suggest we first arrive at a consensus before merging this patch.
>>
>> This discussion seems to have stagnated; how do we move forward here?
>>
>> Sumit, as the primary author and new maintainer (congrats!) of the
>> dma-buf infrastructure, it seems like it's really your call how to
>> proceed.  I'd still like to see this be something that we can use from
>> the nvidia and fglrx drivers for Xorg buffer sharing, as I and Dave have
>> argued in this thread.  It really seems to me that this change on a
>> technical level won't have any adverse effect on the scenarios where it
>> can be used today, but it will allow it to be used more widely, which
>> will prevent duplication and fragmentation in the future and be greatly
>> appreciated by users of hardware such as Optimus.
>
> Given that I've participated quite a bit in the design of dma_buf as-is,
> let me throw in my totally irrelevant opinion, too ;-)
>
> I'll refrain from comment on the actual patch, it's obviously a hot topic.
> Furthermore I might need to ask Intel's legal dep for guidance to asses
> things wrt my own contributions to dma_buf.
>
> Otoh I'd like nvidia to be on board, especially when we're desingned
> additions to dma_buf required to make it really work for multiple gpus. In
> additions it looks like that the nvidia blob will only be an importer of a
> dma_buf, at least for the use-cases discussed here.
>
> So why don't you just ditch this patch here and add a small shim to your
> blob to interface with drm's prime as an importing driver? I personally
> would deem that acceptable and I think Dave wouldn't mind too much,
> either.

Hi Everyone!

(Apologies for delay in replying; was OoO for past couple of days)

Thanks very much for this discussion - a couple of things:

1. I am definitely willing to make changes as needed to get as many
devices / subsystems / frameworks to use the dma-buf infrastructure.
This could include changing the way symbols are exported, if that is
the *only* way to get things done.

2. With that premise, I quite like the idea that Daniel gave (of
course, in his capacity as one of the top contributors behind dma-buf
infrastructure, and like he said, not as an Intel employee) - so let
me ask the following:

Robert, Dave,
Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?

Also, if some of you are going to be at ELC mid-Feb at SFO, we could
meet up face-to-face and thrash out possible ways forward.
>
> Yours, Daniel
Thanks, and best regards,
~Sumit.
>
> Disclaimer: This is my own opinion and I do not speak as an Intel employee
> here.
> --
> Daniel Vetter
> Mail: daniel@ffwll.ch
> Mobile: +41 (0)79 365 57 48

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Alan Cox]

> Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
> symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
> shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
> Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?

The GPL requires all the code of a work is source. All of it, no shims no
magic glue. EXPORT_SYMBOL isn't an indication you can use it for binary
modules. The GPL licence is quite clear on what is covered.

Since you've asked this I'm advised by my lawyer to respond to all such
assumptions of legality of binary modules...

For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.

Alan

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em 25-01-2012 10:30, Alan Cox escreveu:
>> Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
>> symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
>> shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
>> Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?
> 
> The GPL requires all the code of a work is source. All of it, no shims no
> magic glue. EXPORT_SYMBOL isn't an indication you can use it for binary
> modules. The GPL licence is quite clear on what is covered.

Agreed. Such patch won't change anything. The discussions, patch reviews,
etc were under the assumption that the code will be GPL'd, plus the
subsystems that are exposed by this interface also assumes that. Any trials
to circumvent it seem to violate Kernel owner's rights.

> Since you've asked this I'm advised by my lawyer to respond to all such
> assumptions of legality of binary modules...
> 
> For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
> public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
> for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
> contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
> magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
> containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
> licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.
> 
> Alan

I second Alan:
	For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
	public license v2 (in a few cases, where explicitly said GPLv2 or later 
	or dual GNU/BSD), I have never given permission for that code to be
	used as part of a combined or derivative work which contains binary chunks.

Regards,
Mauro.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em 25-01-2012 11:46, Mauro Carvalho Chehab escreveu:
> Em 25-01-2012 10:30, Alan Cox escreveu:
>>> Technically speaking, is there no way that the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPLed
>>> symbols can be used by the binary blobs, possibly with an open-sourced
>>> shim which provides the buffer-sharing interface to the binary blobs?
>>> Are there any reasons to not consider this approach?
>>
>> The GPL requires all the code of a work is source. All of it, no shims no
>> magic glue. EXPORT_SYMBOL isn't an indication you can use it for binary
>> modules. The GPL licence is quite clear on what is covered.
> 
> Agreed. Such patch won't change anything. The discussions, patch reviews,
> etc were under the assumption that the code will be GPL'd, plus the
> subsystems that are exposed by this interface also assumes that.

>  Any trials to circumvent it seem to violate Kernel owner's rights.

In time, let me rephrase it:

Any trial to circumvent it seems to be an attempt to violate Kernel owner's rights.

> 
>> Since you've asked this I'm advised by my lawyer to respond to all such
>> assumptions of legality of binary modules...
>>
>> For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
>> public license v2 (in some cases or later), I have never given permission
>> for that code to be used as part of a combined or derivative work which
>> contains binary chunks. I have never said that modules are somehow
>> magically outside the GPL and I am doubtful that in most cases a work
>> containing binary modules for a Linux kernel is compatible with the
>> licensing, although I accept there may be some cases that it is.
>>
>> Alan
> 
> I second Alan:
> 	For a Linux kernel containing any code I own the code is under the GNU
> 	public license v2 (in a few cases, where explicitly said GPLv2 or later 
> 	or dual GNU/BSD), I have never given permission for that code to be
> 	used as part of a combined or derivative work which contains binary chunks.
> 
> Regards,
> Mauro.

Re: [PATCH] dma-buf: Use EXPORT_SYMBOL

[Rob Clark]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com> wrote:
> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is intended to be used for "an internal implementation
> issue, and not really an interface".  The dma-buf infrastructure is
> explicitly intended as an interface between modules/drivers, so it
> should use EXPORT_SYMBOL instead.


We discussed this topic at the kernel-gfx mini-summit at ELC.
Following the discussion, I agree that dma-buf infrastructure is
intended as an interface between driver subsystems.  And because (for
now) all the other arm SoC gl(es) stacks unfortunately involve a
closed src userspace, and since I consider userspace and kernel as
tightly coupled in the realm of graphics stacks, I don't think we can
really claim the moral high-ground here.  So I can't object to use of
EXPORT_SYMBOL() instead of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL().

That said, I expect the dma-buf infrastructure to still be evolving
and it is the responsibility for out-of-tree users of the API (GPL or
otherwise) to adapt as the dma-buf API changes.  And there isn't much
the in-tree drivers can do when it comes to debugging of buffer
sharing issues with out-of-tree drivers (binary or otherwise), leaving
the debugging responsibility to the owners of different out-of-tree
drivers.

BR,
-R

> Signed-off-by: Robert Morell <rmorell@nvidia.com>
> ---
>  drivers/base/dma-buf.c |   16 ++++++++--------
>  1 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
> index e38ad24..4ed5a5d 100644
> --- a/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
> +++ b/drivers/base/dma-buf.c
> @@ -101,7 +101,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_export(void *priv, struct dma_buf_ops *ops,
>
>        return dmabuf;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_export);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_export);
>
>
>  /**
> @@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ int dma_buf_fd(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
>
>        return fd;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_fd);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_fd);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_get - returns the dma_buf structure related to an fd
> @@ -152,7 +152,7 @@ struct dma_buf *dma_buf_get(int fd)
>
>        return file->private_data;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_get);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_get);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_put - decreases refcount of the buffer
> @@ -167,7 +167,7 @@ void dma_buf_put(struct dma_buf *dmabuf)
>
>        fput(dmabuf->file);
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_put);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_put);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_attach - Add the device to dma_buf's attachments list; optionally,
> @@ -213,7 +213,7 @@ err_attach:
>        mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
>        return ERR_PTR(ret);
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_attach);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_attach);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_detach - Remove the given attachment from dmabuf's attachments list;
> @@ -235,7 +235,7 @@ void dma_buf_detach(struct dma_buf *dmabuf, struct dma_buf_attachment *attach)
>        mutex_unlock(&dmabuf->lock);
>        kfree(attach);
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_detach);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_detach);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_map_attachment - Returns the scatterlist table of the attachment;
> @@ -265,7 +265,7 @@ struct sg_table *dma_buf_map_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
>
>        return sg_table;
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_map_attachment);
>
>  /**
>  * dma_buf_unmap_attachment - unmaps and decreases usecount of the buffer;might
> @@ -288,4 +288,4 @@ void dma_buf_unmap_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
>        mutex_unlock(&attach->dmabuf->lock);
>
>  }
> -EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
> +EXPORT_SYMBOL(dma_buf_unmap_attachment);
> --
> 1.7.3.4
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/