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From: David Howells <dhowells@cambridge.redhat.com>
To: Jan Harkes <jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu>
Cc: David Howells <dhowells@cambridge.redhat.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] AFS filesystem for Linux (2/2)
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:13:22 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <16811.1033719202@warthog.cambridge.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Message from Jan Harkes <jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu>  of "Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:53:04 EDT." <20021003165304.GA25718@ravel.coda.cs.cmu.edu>


Hi Jan,

> Coda 'solves' the page-aliasing issues by passing the kernel the same file
> descriptor as it is using itself to put the data into the container (cache)
> file. You could do the same and tell the kernel what the 'expected size' is,
> it can then block or trigger further fetches when that part of the file
> isn't available yet.

True. But how should I tell when a page isn't available yet, if I do as Coda
appears to do and directly use a file on another local filesystem (for Coda,
this doesn't matter since it maintains the entire file in its cache).

As for writing, surely Coda's solution is even worse? Since the pages in
question are "owned" by the backing cache file as far as the VM is concerned,
and all writes to a Coda file are ducted directly through to the backing cache
file, how do you (a) tell when the file has changed, and (b) tell which bits
of the file need to be sent back to the server? Do you send the entire file
back every time it gets changed? Do you keep a copy and "diff" the two?

> Basically when you open a file O_RDWR and write some data, and anyone else
> 'commits' an update to the file before you close the filehandle. Your client
> writes back the previously committed data, which it has proactively fetched,
> but with the local metadata (i.e. i_size).

This appears to be a flaw in the protocol, and it's going to be a problem, no
matter where the writes are done.

David

  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-10-04  8:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 316+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <7146.1033580256@warthog.cambridge.redhat.com>
2002-10-03  0:36 ` [PATCH] AFS filesystem for Linux (2/2) Linus Torvalds
2002-10-03  9:05   ` David Howells
2002-10-03 16:53     ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-03 17:45       ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-03 21:46       ` David Howells
2002-10-04  8:13       ` David Howells [this message]
     [not found]       ` <15381.1033681790@warthog.cambridge.redhat.com>
2002-10-04 14:02         ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-04 14:40           ` Trond Myklebust
2002-10-04 15:35             ` David Howells
2002-10-04 15:53               ` Trond Myklebust
2002-10-04 15:56                 ` David Howells
2002-10-04 16:03                   ` Trond Myklebust
2002-10-04 16:17                     ` David Howells
2002-10-04 17:04                       ` Trond Myklebust
2002-10-04 17:29                         ` David Howells
2002-10-07 14:14                         ` David Howells
2002-10-07 14:54                           ` Trond Myklebust
2002-10-07 15:36                             ` David Howells
2002-10-04 16:30               ` Andreas Dilger
2002-10-04 15:34           ` David Howells
2002-10-04 16:07             ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-04 16:56               ` David Howells
2002-10-04 17:36                 ` Jan Harkes
2002-10-07  9:14                   ` David Howells
2002-10-06 16:49     ` Troy Benjegerdes
2002-10-07  9:16       ` David Howells
2002-10-04 14:11   ` [patch] [kkern] " Patrick Audley
2001-05-14 19:19 LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-14 19:36 ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-14 19:57   ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-14 20:04     ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-14 20:09     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 20:24       ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-14 20:27         ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-14 22:21           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 23:43             ` Jan Niehusmann
2001-05-14 23:48               ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 20:29         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-14 20:55           ` Neil Brown
2001-05-14 21:20             ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 21:37               ` Neil Brown
2001-05-14 21:24             ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-14 21:33               ` Neil Brown
2001-05-15  6:41             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15  8:57               ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15  9:08                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15  9:26                   ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15  9:49                     ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15  9:51                       ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 10:12                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 10:36                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 15:16                         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 20:55                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 15:10                     ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 15:29                       ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 17:21                       ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 17:25                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 17:29                           ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 17:32                             ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 17:44                               ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 18:18                                 ` Ingo Oeser
2001-05-15 18:36                                   ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 18:42                                 ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-16  8:29                                 ` Helge Hafting
2001-05-16 17:16                                   ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 21:46                               ` Chip Salzenberg
2001-05-15 21:50                                 ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 18:04                             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 18:58                               ` Johannes Erdfelt
2001-05-15 19:17                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 19:23                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 19:43                                   ` Johannes Erdfelt
2001-05-15 21:58                                     ` Chip Salzenberg
2001-05-16  8:51                                     ` Helge Hafting
2001-05-17 10:20                                     ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-18 17:32                                       ` Johannes Erdfelt
2001-05-19 10:21                                         ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-19  8:18                                     ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-17 20:40                                 ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-17 22:46                                   ` Johannes Erdfelt
2001-05-15 20:03                               ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 20:06                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 20:28                                   ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 21:20                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-15 21:28                                       ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 21:31                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 21:43                                         ` Johannes Erdfelt
2001-05-15 21:49                                           ` James Simmons
2001-05-16  7:05                                           ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-15 22:07                                         ` Alan Cox
2001-05-16  7:11                                         ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-16  7:43                                           ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-16  9:45                                             ` Malcolm Beattie
2001-05-16  0:59                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2001-05-16  1:34                                         ` Nicolas Pitre
2001-05-16  1:51                                           ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-16 11:34                                         ` Erik Mouw
2001-05-17 17:07                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2001-05-17 19:30                                           ` Jeff Randall
2001-05-16  7:17                                       ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-15 20:14                                 ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 20:30                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 20:41                                     ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 20:51                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-16  1:01                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2001-05-16  1:04                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 20:37                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 20:56                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-15 21:22                                     ` James Simmons
2001-05-17 10:42                                     ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-18 18:32                                       ` James Simmons
2001-05-19 10:23                                         ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants] Pavel Machek
2001-05-19 19:00                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-19 19:17                                             ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-19 19:35                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-19 19:43                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-19 20:31                                                   ` Tim Jansen
2001-05-19 23:57                                                 ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-20  7:18                                                   ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending DeviceNumber Registrants] Abramo Bagnara
2001-05-20  7:41                                                     ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-20  8:30                                                       ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending DeviceNumberRegistrants] Abramo Bagnara
2001-05-20 10:09                                                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-20  0:01                                               ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants] Alexander Viro
2001-05-20 11:17                                                 ` handling network using filesystem [was Re: no ioctls for serial ports?] Pavel Machek
2001-05-20  9:53                                               ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Num Kai Henningsen
2001-05-20 13:40                                                 ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-20 14:27                                                   ` Tim Jansen
2001-05-20 14:30                                                   ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending DeviceNum Abramo Bagnara
2001-05-20 14:45                                                     ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-20 15:00                                                       ` Abramo Bagnara
2001-05-20 15:18                                                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-20 15:40                                                           ` Abramo Bagnara
2001-05-20 16:01                                                             ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-20 15:26                                                       ` Jakob Østergaard
2001-05-20 15:42                                                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-21 17:45                                                       ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-05-21 18:14                                                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-21 18:37                                                           ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-05-21 18:49                                                             ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-21 19:08                                                               ` Oliver Xymoron
2001-05-22  5:56                                                   ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Num Pavel Machek
2001-05-19 20:11                                             ` no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending DeviceNumber Registrants] Abramo Bagnara
2001-05-15 20:57                                   ` LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants James Simmons
2001-05-17 20:33                                   ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-15 20:17                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 21:59                                 ` Chip Salzenberg
2001-05-15 22:51                                   ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 21:22                               ` Jan Harkes
2001-05-15 21:39                               ` Martin Dalecki
2001-05-15 18:02                       ` Ingo Oeser
2001-05-15 19:31                       ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-15 19:37                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 20:10                         ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 21:41                         ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-15 21:47                           ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 22:14                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 22:24                           ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-15 22:27                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 22:38                             ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 22:28                           ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-15 22:32                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 22:33                             ` Alan Cox
2001-05-16  7:21                           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-05-16 18:22                           ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 19:36                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 20:01                             ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 20:05                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 20:18                               ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-16 20:44                               ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 20:54                               ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 21:36                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 22:11                                   ` Ingo Oeser
2001-05-16 22:13                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 22:21                                       ` Jens Axboe
2001-05-16 23:03                                     ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 23:25                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 23:37                                       ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 23:38                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 23:41                                         ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 23:43                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 23:49                                           ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-16 23:55                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-17 21:12                                             ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-17 21:06                               ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-16 23:51                             ` Alan Cox
2001-05-16 23:58                             ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-17  0:12                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-17  0:24                               ` Alan Cox
2001-05-17  1:35                               ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-17  9:33                                 ` Guest section DW
2001-05-15 20:58                       ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 21:42                       ` Chip Salzenberg
2001-05-15 21:46                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15 21:57                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 22:07                             ` Chip Salzenberg
2001-05-15 22:11                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 22:18                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 21:40                     ` Chip Salzenberg
2001-05-15 22:12                       ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 22:19                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 22:28                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 22:34                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 23:39                         ` Chip Salzenberg
2001-05-16 20:37                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 22:49                       ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 23:22                       ` Kenneth Johansson
2001-05-15  9:28                   ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 15:15                     ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 15:19                       ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-15 15:45                         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 17:27                           ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 17:43                             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 18:04                               ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-15 18:15                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 19:36                                   ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-15 20:18                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 20:26                                       ` Dan Hollis
2001-05-15 22:14                                         ` Miles Lane
2001-05-15 21:29                                       ` Alex Bligh - linux-kernel
2001-05-15 21:36                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15 22:03                                         ` Jeff Mahoney
2001-05-15 22:42                                         ` Andreas Dilger
2001-05-15 21:51                                       ` Mark Frazer
2001-05-15 22:35                                       ` Bob Glamm
2001-05-16  0:56                                       ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-16  2:31                                         ` Andrew Morton
2001-05-16  6:56                                         ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-16  8:02                                           ` Vojtech Pavlik
2001-05-16 12:20                                           ` Bogdan Costescu
2001-05-16 14:37                                           ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-16 14:57                                             ` Vojtech Pavlik
2001-05-16 15:24                                             ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-16  7:24                                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-05-16 23:26                                         ` Alan Cox
2001-05-16 23:31                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-16 23:53                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-17  0:21                                             ` Alan Cox
2001-05-17  7:57                                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-05-17 16:26                                               ` James Simmons
2001-05-17  6:43                                             ` Thomas Sailer
2001-05-17 16:58                                               ` Tim Jansen
2001-05-17 17:18                                                 ` James Simmons
2001-05-17 17:29                                                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-05-17 17:41                                                   ` Tim Jansen
2001-05-17 22:03                                                 ` Oliver Neukum
2001-05-16 23:52                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-17  1:26                                           ` Joel Becker
2001-05-16 16:04                                       ` Michael Meissner
2001-05-16 21:36                                         ` Andreas Dilger
2001-05-18  2:18                                     ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-19 17:36                                       ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-20  9:37                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2001-05-20 14:16                                         ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-05-20 15:54                                         ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-20 15:57                                         ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-19 17:45                                       ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-05-19  8:42                                     ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-17 21:23                                   ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-15 19:33                                 ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-16  7:25                                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-05-15 18:19                               ` James Simmons
2001-05-15 20:23                               ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 20:28                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-15 21:52                               ` Andreas Dilger
2001-05-15 20:02                             ` Dan Hollis
2001-05-15 11:44               ` Neil Brown
2001-05-15 15:34                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-16  1:00                   ` Daniel Phillips
2001-05-16 12:58                     ` Jens Axboe
2001-05-16  3:25                   ` Neil Brown
2001-05-15 15:51               ` John Fremlin
2001-05-14 21:09           ` Andi Kleen
2001-05-14 21:11           ` Rik van Riel
2001-05-14 21:23             ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15  0:33               ` Rik van Riel
2001-05-16  9:04                 ` Ingo Oeser
2001-05-14 21:16           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 22:05             ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-14 22:30               ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 22:48                 ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-14 22:46                   ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 22:53                     ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-14 22:54                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-14 23:00                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-14 22:58                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 23:29                             ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15  4:20                             ` God
2001-05-15  7:48                             ` 2.4 " bert hubert
2001-05-15  8:54                               ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15  9:09                                 ` bert hubert
2001-05-14 23:39                           ` LANANA: " Richard Gooch
2001-05-14 23:18                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-05-14 23:20                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 18:57                           ` Kai Henningsen
2001-05-15  5:56                         ` Oliver Neukum
2001-05-15  5:59                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-05-14 22:55                       ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 23:11                         ` Dan Hollis
2001-05-14 23:19                           ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 23:23                         ` Alexander Viro
2001-05-15  1:10                         ` Keith Owens
2001-05-15  4:12                 ` LANANA: Getting out of hand? God
2001-05-15  4:30                   ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15  5:17                     ` Linus Torvalds
2001-05-15  8:24                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2001-05-15  8:48                     ` Alan Cox
2001-05-15 21:16                     ` Martin Dalecki
2001-05-14 23:01               ` Interrupted sound with 2.4.4-ac6 Hermann Himmelbauer
2001-05-14 23:34           ` LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants Richard Gooch
2001-05-14 21:18         ` Alan Cox
2001-05-14 23:32     ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-14 20:09 ` Richard Gooch
2001-05-14 20:14   ` Jeff Garzik
2001-05-15 17:37 ` Pavel Machek
2001-05-17 11:32   ` Alan Cox
2001-05-16 15:58 ` Kurt Garloff

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