* RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa @ 2003-07-15 20:20 pavel 2003-07-15 21:22 ` [Swsusp-devel] " Karol Kozimor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: pavel @ 2003-07-15 20:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jamie Lokier, Kent Borg Cc: Pavel Machek, Dmitry Torokhov, Nigel Cunningham, swsusp-devel, linux-kernel Both suspend-to-disk and suspend-to-ram are controlled by echo <num> > /proc/acpi/sleep. If you are using apm, i have no idea how that works. Anyway, depending on acpi is wrong and needs to be fixed in 2.7. --p ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa 2003-07-15 20:20 RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa pavel @ 2003-07-15 21:22 ` Karol Kozimor 2003-07-16 8:37 ` Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Karol Kozimor @ 2003-07-15 21:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pavel Cc: Jamie Lokier, Kent Borg, Pavel Machek, Dmitry Torokhov, Nigel Cunningham, swsusp-devel, linux-kernel Thus wrote pavel@ucw.cz: > Anyway, depending on acpi is wrong and needs to be fixed in 2.7. Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean S4, or any suspend state in general? Best regards, -- Karol 'sziwan' Kozimor sziwan@hell.org.pl ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa 2003-07-15 21:22 ` [Swsusp-devel] " Karol Kozimor @ 2003-07-16 8:37 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-16 10:37 ` root 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-16 8:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jamie Lokier, Kent Borg, Dmitry Torokhov, Nigel Cunningham, swsusp-devel, linux-kernel Hi! > Thus wrote pavel@ucw.cz: > > Anyway, depending on acpi is wrong and needs to be fixed in 2.7. > > Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean S4, or any suspend state in > general? It would be nice to have arch-neutral way to enter suspend to ram and suspend to disk. Being arch-neutral, it may not depend on ACPI. Pavel -- When do you have a heart between your knees? [Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa 2003-07-16 8:37 ` Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-16 10:37 ` root 2003-07-16 10:40 ` Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: root @ 2003-07-16 10:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pavel Machek; +Cc: linux-kernel > > Hi! > > > Thus wrote pavel@ucw.cz: > > > Anyway, depending on acpi is wrong and needs to be fixed in 2.7. > > > > Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean S4, or any suspend state in > > general? > > It would be nice to have arch-neutral way to enter suspend to ram and > suspend to disk. Being arch-neutral, it may not depend on ACPI. Taking this in a slightly different direction. It would be even nicer to be able to be able to migrate machine images between machines. How identical do machines have to be before it's no longer just a case of copying the file? Identical make of RAM, same CPU model, same BIOS version, with the PCI and USB things connected to the same slots in the same way? Or is it a little looser? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-16 10:37 ` root @ 2003-07-16 10:40 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-16 17:51 ` Ingo Oeser 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-16 10:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: root; +Cc: Pavel Machek, linux-kernel Hi! > > > > Anyway, depending on acpi is wrong and needs to be fixed in 2.7. > > > > > > Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean S4, or any suspend state in > > > general? > > > > It would be nice to have arch-neutral way to enter suspend to ram and > > suspend to disk. Being arch-neutral, it may not depend on ACPI. > > Taking this in a slightly different direction. > > It would be even nicer to be able to be able to migrate machine images > between machines. > How identical do machines have to be before it's no longer just a case > of copying the file? > Identical make of RAM, same CPU model, same BIOS version, with the PCI and > USB things connected to the same slots in the same way? > Or is it a little looser? Well, for USB maybe hotplug would handle the change, all the other stuff should better be the same. It probably will work even with (for example) slightly different BIOS version, but... don't count on that. If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, too ;-). Pavel -- When do you have a heart between your knees? [Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-16 10:40 ` Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-16 17:51 ` Ingo Oeser 2003-07-16 18:15 ` Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Ingo Oeser @ 2003-07-16 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pavel Machek; +Cc: root, linux-kernel On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 12:40:26PM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote: > If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same > config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, too That might be more important than you think. Just start your Oracle in UML and swsusp. Now start your loadbalancer and start a copy of that frozen image as soon, as the load reaches a defined limit and kill these images again, if load goes down. There might be even more interesting scenarios like this. Regards Ingo Oeser ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-16 17:51 ` Ingo Oeser @ 2003-07-16 18:15 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-16 19:17 ` Alan Cox 2003-07-19 18:22 ` Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere Jan Rychter 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-16 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ingo Oeser; +Cc: root, linux-kernel Hi! > > If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same > > config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, too > > That might be more important than you think. :-). Well, it is also harder than you probably think, because UML is *very* strange architecture and it is not at all easy to save/restore its state. There were some patches in that area, but it never worked (AFAIK). > Just start your Oracle in UML and swsusp. Now start your loadbalancer and start > a copy of that frozen image as soon, as the load reaches a defined limit and > kill these images again, if load goes down. Not *my* Oracle ;-). Pavel -- When do you have a heart between your knees? [Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-16 18:15 ` Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-16 19:17 ` Alan Cox 2003-07-16 22:39 ` Antonio Vargas 2003-07-19 18:22 ` Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere Jan Rychter 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2003-07-16 19:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pavel Machek; +Cc: Ingo Oeser, root, Linux Kernel Mailing List On Mer, 2003-07-16 at 19:15, Pavel Machek wrote: > Hi! > > > > If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same > > > config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, too > > > > That might be more important than you think. > > :-). Well, it is also harder than you probably think, because UML is > *very* strange architecture and it is not at all easy to save/restore > its state. There were some patches in that area, but it never worked > (AFAIK). Would it not be a lot easier to tackle that with qemu, and teach qemu to freeze/restore virtual machines ? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-16 19:17 ` Alan Cox @ 2003-07-16 22:39 ` Antonio Vargas 2003-07-17 11:49 ` Alan Cox 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Antonio Vargas @ 2003-07-16 22:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan Cox; +Cc: Pavel Machek, Ingo Oeser, root, Linux Kernel Mailing List On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 08:17:24PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > On Mer, 2003-07-16 at 19:15, Pavel Machek wrote: > > Hi! > > > > > > If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same > > > > config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, too > > > > > > That might be more important than you think. > > > > :-). Well, it is also harder than you probably think, because UML is > > *very* strange architecture and it is not at all easy to save/restore > > its state. There were some patches in that area, but it never worked > > (AFAIK). > > Would it not be a lot easier to tackle that with qemu, and teach qemu to > freeze/restore virtual machines ? AFAIK, qemu does virtual processes, but not virtual machines. Running init(1) from qemu could be fun, anyways ;) Greets, Antonio. -- In fact, this is all you need to know to be a Caveman Database Programmer: A relational database is a big spreadsheet that several people can update simultaneously. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-16 22:39 ` Antonio Vargas @ 2003-07-17 11:49 ` Alan Cox 2003-07-17 16:29 ` Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2003-07-17 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Antonio Vargas; +Cc: Pavel Machek, Ingo Oeser, root, Linux Kernel Mailing List On Mer, 2003-07-16 at 23:39, Antonio Vargas wrote: > > Would it not be a lot easier to tackle that with qemu, and teach qemu to > > freeze/restore virtual machines ? > > AFAIK, qemu does virtual processes, but not virtual machines. Running init(1) > from qemu could be fun, anyways ;) qemu moves on release by release. It can run an entire virtualised linux kernel nowdays, although its performance still needs some work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-17 11:49 ` Alan Cox @ 2003-07-17 16:29 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-17 16:45 ` Alan Cox 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-17 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan Cox; +Cc: Antonio Vargas, Ingo Oeser, root, Linux Kernel Mailing List Hi! > > > Would it not be a lot easier to tackle that with qemu, and teach qemu to > > > freeze/restore virtual machines ? > > > > AFAIK, qemu does virtual processes, but not virtual machines. Running init(1) > > from qemu could be fun, anyways ;) > > qemu moves on release by release. It can run an entire virtualised linux kernel > nowdays, although its performance still needs some work. I guess qemu is way too slow for this. Pavel -- When do you have a heart between your knees? [Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] 2003-07-17 16:29 ` Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-17 16:45 ` Alan Cox 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2003-07-17 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pavel Machek; +Cc: Antonio Vargas, Ingo Oeser, root, Linux Kernel Mailing List On Iau, 2003-07-17 at 17:29, Pavel Machek wrote: > > qemu moves on release by release. It can run an entire virtualised linux kernel > > nowdays, although its performance still needs some work. > > I guess qemu is way too slow for this. Its coming in about 25% of native performance so certainly has a way to go yet ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere 2003-07-16 18:15 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-16 19:17 ` Alan Cox @ 2003-07-19 18:22 ` Jan Rychter 2003-07-20 22:53 ` Pavel Machek 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Jan Rychter @ 2003-07-19 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linux-kernel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1059 bytes --] >>>>> "Pavel" == Pavel Machek <pavel@suse.cz> writes: Pavel> Hi! > If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same > config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, > too >> >> That might be more important than you think. Pavel> :-). Well, it is also harder than you probably think, because Pavel> UML is *very* strange architecture and it is not at all easy to Pavel> save/restore its state. There were some patches in that area, Pavel> but it never worked (AFAIK). ... but there are many people who dream about swsusp for UMLinux. Particularly some laptop users who want to suspend (at least the most critical long-running applications) and/or find Linux way too unstable and requiring frequent reboots. The day UMLinux gets swsusp, I'm moving my XEmacs, mozilla and some other toys into a UML machine and staying there. Hopefully then a single problem with a USB driver, keventd running wild, or other frequently encountered breakage won't be taking my entire world down. --J. [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere 2003-07-19 18:22 ` Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere Jan Rychter @ 2003-07-20 22:53 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-21 20:41 ` Jan Rychter 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-20 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jan Rychter; +Cc: linux-kernel Hi! > > If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same > > config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, > > too > >> > >> That might be more important than you think. > > Pavel> :-). Well, it is also harder than you probably think, because > Pavel> UML is *very* strange architecture and it is not at all easy to > Pavel> save/restore its state. There were some patches in that area, > Pavel> but it never worked (AFAIK). > > ... but there are many people who dream about swsusp for UMLinux. > > Particularly some laptop users who want to suspend (at least the most > critical long-running applications) and/or find Linux way too unstable > and requiring frequent reboots. > > The day UMLinux gets swsusp, I'm moving my XEmacs, mozilla and some > other toys into a UML machine and staying there. Hopefully then a single > problem with a USB driver, keventd running wild, or other frequently > encountered breakage won't be taking my entire world down. Well, then you may as well help porting swsusp to UML ;-). OTOH, single problem with suspend *will* then bring your entire world down :-(. You would be able to rollback, through. Pavel -- When do you have a heart between your knees? [Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere 2003-07-20 22:53 ` Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-21 20:41 ` Jan Rychter 2003-07-23 5:13 ` Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Jan Rychter @ 2003-07-21 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linux-kernel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1790 bytes --] >>>>> "Pavel" == Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>: Pavel> Hi! > If you want to migrate programs between machines, run UMLinux, same > config, on both machines. Ouch and you'll need swsusp for UMLinux, > too > > That might be more important than you think. >> Pavel> :-). Well, it is also harder than you probably think, because Pavel> UML is *very* strange architecture and it is not at all easy to Pavel> save/restore its state. There were some patches in that area, Pavel> but it never worked (AFAIK). >> >> ... but there are many people who dream about swsusp for UMLinux. >> >> Particularly some laptop users who want to suspend (at least the >> most critical long-running applications) and/or find Linux way too >> unstable and requiring frequent reboots. >> >> The day UMLinux gets swsusp, I'm moving my XEmacs, mozilla and some >> other toys into a UML machine and staying there. Hopefully then a >> single problem with a USB driver, keventd running wild, or other >> frequently encountered breakage won't be taking my entire world >> down. Pavel> Well, then you may as well help porting swsusp to UML ;-). Pavel> OTOH, single problem with suspend *will* then bring your entire Pavel> world down :-(. You would be able to rollback, through. But that's significantly better than any USB problem or any ALSA problem or any ACPI problem bringing down my entire world, which is the current situation with Linux 2.4. I have the impression that the core developers are unaware of the fact of how unstable Linux has become, particularly on laptops. I guess if you do kernel work and reboot often, you never notice that. Besides, doing stability work is "unfashionable"... --J. (duly trying to report all bugs encountered) [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere 2003-07-21 20:41 ` Jan Rychter @ 2003-07-23 5:13 ` Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2003-07-23 5:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jan Rychter; +Cc: linux-kernel Hi! > I have the impression that the core developers are unaware of the fact > of how unstable Linux has become, particularly on laptops. I guess if > you do kernel work and reboot often, you never notice that. Besides, > doing stability work is "unfashionable"... > > --J. (duly trying to report all bugs encountered) Well, for laptops thats not enough. Everyone sees problems, but too little people fix them. There are too many brands of those notebooks with different quirks each. :-( -- Pavel Written on sharp zaurus, because my Velo1 broke. If you have Velo you don't need... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-07-23 10:57 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-07-15 20:20 RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa pavel 2003-07-15 21:22 ` [Swsusp-devel] " Karol Kozimor 2003-07-16 8:37 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-16 10:37 ` root 2003-07-16 10:40 ` Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere [was Re: [Swsusp-devel] RE:Re: Thoughts wanted on merging Softwa] Pavel Machek 2003-07-16 17:51 ` Ingo Oeser 2003-07-16 18:15 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-16 19:17 ` Alan Cox 2003-07-16 22:39 ` Antonio Vargas 2003-07-17 11:49 ` Alan Cox 2003-07-17 16:29 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-17 16:45 ` Alan Cox 2003-07-19 18:22 ` Suspend on one machine, resume elsewhere Jan Rychter 2003-07-20 22:53 ` Pavel Machek 2003-07-21 20:41 ` Jan Rychter 2003-07-23 5:13 ` Pavel Machek
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).