From: Horst von Brand <vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl>
To: Sergiy Lozovsky <serge_lozovsky@yahoo.com>
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: kernel stack challenge
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:44:20 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200404070244.i372iKdd003670@eeyore.valparaiso.cl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:05:21 MST." <20040406220521.56509.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com>
Sergiy Lozovsky <serge_lozovsky@yahoo.com> said:
> --- Timothy Miller <miller@techsource.com> wrote:
> > Horst von Brand wrote:
> > > OK, so you need the policy to be interpreted in-kernel (dunno why
> > > a largeish high-level general purpose language is needed for that,
> > > when a tiny interpreter for a specialized language will do very well,
> > > and has been shown to work fine), and written in a "high level
> > > language" so that your garden variety sysadmin _can_ write her own
> > > policy, but it really doesn't matter because she'll never have to do
> > > so...
> > > Completely lost me.
> > I was getting hung up on that one too, but I didn't
> > know how to say it.
> > You did a nice job. :)
> Can you guys be more specific? I don't see any
> technical objections.
As they say around here "No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver"
(roughly, "There is no worse blindness than not wanting to see")...
> The only one is that performance
> would suffer because of use of higher level language
> than C or Assembler.
Because the performance and size of kernel code is _critical_, maybe?
Because much of the kernel code has been carefully tuned for maximum
performance perhaps?
> There is a reason people use languages like PERL, Java
> and so on.
And there are solid reasons for _not_ writing operating system kernels in
them too...
> I would prefer to spend less time writing
> actual code - this is what these high level languages
> for. If performance would be most important - people
> would do everything in Assembler, but they don't. I'd
> better write a small Assembler subroutine which will
> handle stack problems for me and benefit from using
> the high level language after that.
And then there is the technology of _inventing_ a language tailored to the
task at hand... even better than your list of high-level languages.
> There were times when userland projects were written
> in Assembler. Now people are using other languages,
> too.
In part because a mediocre compiler these days gives better code than an
assembly language coder by hand... and you can compile it for next year's
machine too.
> May be it's time to try something new in the
> kernel, too :-) Or we will not consider that because
> nobody did that before? Someone should be the first
> :-)
It's your time you are wasting... have my blessing.
--
Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org
Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 654431
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 654239
Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 797513
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-04-07 2:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-04-04 6:48 kernel stack challenge Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-05 9:39 ` Helge Hafting
2004-04-05 17:05 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-05 18:06 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-05 17:59 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-05 19:27 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-04-05 21:14 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-05 20:09 ` John Stoffel
2004-04-05 20:54 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-05 21:08 ` Chris Wright
2004-04-05 21:40 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-05 21:53 ` Chris Wright
2004-04-05 22:22 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-05 23:49 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 13:25 ` Jesse Pollard
[not found] ` <20040406132750$3d4e@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>
[not found] ` <mit.lcs.mail.linux-kernel/20040406132750$3d4e@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>
2004-04-06 16:40 ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2004-04-06 19:10 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-06 20:53 ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2004-04-06 21:24 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-07 14:36 ` Jesse Pollard
2004-04-05 21:28 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-05 21:21 ` Stephen Smoogen
2004-04-05 22:25 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-05 21:30 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-05 21:45 ` Kevin Fox
2004-04-05 21:59 ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-04-05 22:52 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 0:46 ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-04-06 0:55 ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-04-06 3:02 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 3:04 ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-04-05 22:20 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-05 23:27 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 20:16 ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-06 20:58 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-06 22:05 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 22:56 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-06 23:17 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-08 13:11 ` Martin Waitz
2004-04-08 22:33 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-07 2:44 ` Horst von Brand [this message]
2004-04-07 17:54 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-08 2:43 ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-08 4:07 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-08 4:29 ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-08 22:51 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-08 15:44 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-04-08 22:22 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-09 15:27 ` Jesse Pollard
2004-04-05 21:12 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-06 13:32 ` Helge Hafting
2004-04-06 17:44 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-07 1:02 ` Horst von Brand
2004-04-07 1:34 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-07 8:57 ` David Weinehall
2004-04-07 13:38 ` Chris Friesen
2004-04-07 17:12 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-07 17:16 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-07 2:30 ` viro
2004-04-06 18:33 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-04-06 18:51 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
[not found] <1H9LV-5Jb-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
2004-04-04 11:27 ` Andi Kleen
2004-04-04 18:24 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-04 18:38 ` Muli Ben-Yehuda
[not found] <200404052043.i35KhDvS020176@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
2004-04-05 21:06 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
[not found] <200404052026.i35KQh5g004342@eeyore.valparaiso.cl>
2004-04-05 21:21 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 20:01 ` Horst von Brand
[not found] <200404061606.i36G6YLE003375@eeyore.valparaiso.cl>
2004-04-06 18:04 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 18:28 ` John Stoffel
2004-04-06 18:48 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 18:57 ` Richard B. Johnson
2004-04-06 21:15 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 22:44 ` Timothy Miller
2004-04-06 22:57 ` viro
2004-04-06 23:32 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 23:45 ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-04-07 2:25 ` Horst von Brand
[not found] <200404061618.i36GIHgW003419@eeyore.valparaiso.cl>
2004-04-06 18:16 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 20:01 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-04-06 21:38 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
2004-04-06 22:46 ` Timothy Miller
[not found] <24DA9B48-8827-11D8-87A5-000A9585C204@able.es>
2004-04-07 0:27 ` Sergiy Lozovsky
[not found] <58907794@toto.iv>
2004-04-07 4:29 ` Peter Chubb
[not found] <20040409182517.330.qmail@web40508.mail.yahoo.com>
2004-04-10 4:17 ` Horst von Brand
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