From: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>
Cc: Linux Kernel Developers List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, smueller@chronox.de,
andi@firstfloor.org, sandyinchina@gmail.com, jsd@av8n.com,
hpa@zytor.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 5/7] random: replace non-blocking pool with a Chacha20-based CRNG
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 11:01:47 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160620150147.GD9848@thunk.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160620051917.GA8719@gondor.apana.org.au>
On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:19:17PM +0800, Herbert Xu wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:02:03AM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> >
> > It's work that I'm not convinced is worth the gain? Perhaps I
> > shouldn't have buried the lede, but repeating a paragraph from later
> > in the message:
> >
> > So even if the AVX optimized is 100% faster than the generic version,
> > it would change the time needed to create a 256 byte session key from
> > 1.68 microseconds to 1.55 microseconds. And this is ignoring the
> > extra overhead needed to set up AVX, the fact that this will require
> > the kernel to do extra work doing the XSAVE and XRESTORE because of
> > the use of the AVX registers, etc.
>
> We do have figures on the efficiency of the accelerated chacha
> implementation on 256-byte requests (I've picked the 8-block
> version):
Sorry, I typo'ed this. s/bytes/bits/. 256 bits / 32 bytes is the
much more common amount that someone might be trying to extract, to
get a 256 **bit** session key.
And also note my comments about how we need to permute the key
directly, and not just go through the set_key abstraction. And when
you did your benchmarks, how often was XSAVE / XRESTORE happening ---
in between every single block operation?
Remember, what we're talking about for getrandom(2) in the most common
case is syscall, extrate a 32 bytes worth of keystream, ***NOT***
XOR'ing it with plaintext buffer, and then permuting the key.
So simply doing chacha20 encryption in a tight loop in the kernel
might not be a good proxy for what would actually happen in real life
when someone calls getrandom(2). (Another good question to ask is
when someone might be needing to generate millions of 256-bit session
keys per second, when the D-H setup, even if you were using ECCDH,
would be largely dominating the time for the connection setup anyway.)
Cheers,
- Ted
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-06-20 15:03 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-06-13 15:48 [PATCH-v4 0/7] random: replace urandom pool with a CRNG Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 15:48 ` [PATCH 1/7] random: initialize the non-blocking pool via add_hwgenerator_randomness() Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 15:48 ` [PATCH 2/7] random: print a warning for the first ten uninitialized random users Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 15:48 ` [PATCH 3/7] random: add interrupt callback to VMBus IRQ handler Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 15:48 ` [PATCH 4/7] random: properly align get_random_int_hash Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 15:48 ` [PATCH 5/7] random: replace non-blocking pool with a Chacha20-based CRNG Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 18:00 ` Stephan Mueller
2016-06-13 19:03 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-15 14:59 ` Herbert Xu
2016-06-19 23:18 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-20 1:25 ` Herbert Xu
2016-06-20 5:02 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-20 5:19 ` Herbert Xu
2016-06-20 15:01 ` Theodore Ts'o [this message]
2016-06-20 15:49 ` Stephan Mueller
2016-06-20 18:52 ` H. Peter Anvin
2016-06-20 23:48 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-26 18:47 ` Pavel Machek
2016-06-26 19:10 ` Stephan Mueller
2016-06-26 22:51 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 15:48 ` [PATCH 6/7] random: make /dev/urandom scalable for silly userspace programs Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-21 9:53 ` Jan Varho
2016-08-21 11:36 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-13 15:48 ` [PATCH 7/7] random: add backtracking protection to the CRNG Theodore Ts'o
2016-06-26 18:47 ` Pavel Machek
2016-06-26 23:05 ` Theodore Ts'o
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