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From: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>
To: Daniel Rosenberg <drosen@google.com>
Cc: Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu>,
	bpf@vger.kernel.org, Alexei Starovoitov <ast@kernel.org>,
	Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-unionfs@vger.kernel.org,
	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@gmail.com>,
	Andrii Nakryiko <andrii@kernel.org>,
	Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@linux.dev>,
	Song Liu <song@kernel.org>, Yonghong Song <yhs@fb.com>,
	KP Singh <kpsingh@kernel.org>,
	Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@google.com>, Hao Luo <haoluo@google.com>,
	Jiri Olsa <jolsa@kernel.org>, Shuah Khan <shuah@kernel.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Joanne Koong <joannelkoong@gmail.com>,
	Mykola Lysenko <mykolal@fb.com>,
	kernel-team@android.com, Paul Lawrence <paullawrence@google.com>,
	Alessio Balsini <balsini@google.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 08/37] fuse: Add fuse-bpf, a stacked fs extension for FUSE
Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 20:38:25 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20230502033825.ofcxttuquoanhe7b@dhcp-172-26-102-232.dhcp.thefacebook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20230418014037.2412394-9-drosen@google.com>

On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 06:40:08PM -0700, Daniel Rosenberg wrote:
> Fuse-bpf provides a short circuit path for Fuse implementations that act
> as a stacked filesystem. For cases that are directly unchanged,
> operations are passed directly to the backing filesystem. Small
> adjustments can be handled by bpf prefilters or postfilters, with the
> option to fall back to userspace as needed.

Here is my understanding of fuse-bpf design:
- bpf progs can mostly read-only access fuse_args before and after proper vfs
  operation on a backing path/file/inode.
- args are unconditionally prepared for bpf prog consumption, but progs won't
  be doing anything with them most of the time.
- progs unfortunately cannot do any real work. they're nothing but simple filters.
  They can give 'green light' for a fuse_FOO op to be delegated to proper vfs_FOO
  in backing file. The logic in this patch keeps track of backing_path/file/inode.
- in other words bpf side is "dumb", but it's telling kernel what to do with
  real things like path/file/inode and the kernel is doing real work and calling vfs_*.

This design adds non-negligible overhead to fuse when CONFIG_FUSE_BPF is set.
Comparing to trip to user space it's close to zero, but the cost of
initialize_in/out + backing + finalize is not free.
The patch 33 is especially odd.
fuse has a traditional mechanism to upcall to user space with fuse_simple_request.
The patch 33 allows bpf prog to return special return value and trigger two more
fuse_bpf_simple_request-s to user space. Not clear why.
It seems to me that the main assumption of the fuse bpf design is that bpf prog
has to stay short and simple. It cannot do much other than reading and comparing
strings with the help of dynptr.
How about we allow bpf attach to fuse_simple_request and nothing else?
All fuse ops call it anyway and cmd is already encoded in the args.
Then let bpf prog read fuse_args as-is (without converting them to bpf_fuse_args)
and avoid doing actual fuse_req to user space.
Also allow bpf prog acquire and remember path/file/inode.
The verifier is already smart enough to track that the prog is doing it safely
without leaking references and what not.
And, of course, allow bpf prog call vfs_* via kfuncs.
In other words, instead of hard coding
 +#define bpf_fuse_backing(inode, io, out,                             \
 +                      initialize_in, initialize_out,                 \
 +                      backing, finalize, args...)                    \
one for each fuse_ops in the kernel let bpf prog do the same but on demand.
The biggest advantage is that this patch set instead of 95% on fuse side and 5% on bpf
will become 5% addition to fuse code. All the logic will be handled purely by bpf.
Right now you're limiting it to one backing_file per fuse_file.
With bpf prog driving it the prog can keep multiple backing_files and shuffle
access to them as prog decides.
Instead of doing 'return BPF_FUSE_CONTINUE' the bpf progs will
pass 'path' to kfunc bpf_vfs_open, than stash 'struct bpf_file*', etc.
Probably will be easier to white board this idea during lsfmmbpf.

First 3 patches look fine. Thank you for resending them separately.

  reply	other threads:[~2023-05-02  3:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-04-18  1:40 [RFC PATCH bpf-next v3 00/37] FUSE BPF: A Stacked Filesystem Extension for FUSE Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 01/37] bpf: verifier: Accept dynptr mem as mem in herlpers Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 02/37] bpf: Allow NULL buffers in bpf_dynptr_slice(_rw) Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 03/37] selftests/bpf: Test allowing NULL buffer in dynptr slice Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 04/37] fs: Generic function to convert iocb to rw flags Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 05/37] fuse-bpf: Update fuse side uapi Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 06/37] fuse-bpf: Add data structures for fuse-bpf Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 07/37] fuse-bpf: Prepare for fuse-bpf patch Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 08/37] fuse: Add fuse-bpf, a stacked fs extension for FUSE Daniel Rosenberg
2023-05-02  3:38   ` Alexei Starovoitov [this message]
2023-05-03  3:45     ` Amir Goldstein
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 09/37] fuse-bpf: Add ioctl interface for /dev/fuse Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 10/37] fuse-bpf: Don't support export_operations Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 11/37] fuse-bpf: Add support for access Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 12/37] fuse-bpf: Partially add mapping support Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 13/37] fuse-bpf: Add lseek support Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 14/37] fuse-bpf: Add support for fallocate Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 15/37] fuse-bpf: Support file/dir open/close Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 16/37] fuse-bpf: Support mknod/unlink/mkdir/rmdir Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 17/37] fuse-bpf: Add support for read/write iter Daniel Rosenberg
2023-05-16 20:21   ` Amir Goldstein
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 18/37] fuse-bpf: support readdir Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 19/37] fuse-bpf: Add support for sync operations Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 20/37] fuse-bpf: Add Rename support Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 21/37] fuse-bpf: Add attr support Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 22/37] fuse-bpf: Add support for FUSE_COPY_FILE_RANGE Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 23/37] fuse-bpf: Add xattr support Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 24/37] fuse-bpf: Add symlink/link support Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 25/37] fuse-bpf: allow mounting with no userspace daemon Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 26/37] bpf: Increase struct_op limits Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 27/37] fuse-bpf: Add fuse-bpf constants Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 28/37] WIP: bpf: Add fuse_ops struct_op programs Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-27  4:18   ` Andrii Nakryiko
2023-05-03  1:53     ` Daniel Rosenberg
2023-05-03 18:22       ` Andrii Nakryiko
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 29/37] fuse-bpf: Export Functions Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 30/37] fuse: Provide registration functions for fuse-bpf Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 31/37] fuse-bpf: Set fuse_ops at mount or lookup time Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 32/37] fuse-bpf: Call bpf for pre/post filters Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 33/37] fuse-bpf: Add userspace " Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 34/37] WIP: fuse-bpf: add error_out Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 35/37] tools: Add FUSE, update bpf includes Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-27  4:24   ` Andrii Nakryiko
2023-04-28  0:48     ` Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 36/37] fuse-bpf: Add selftests Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  1:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 37/37] fuse: Provide easy way to test fuse struct_op call Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-18  5:33 ` [RFC PATCH bpf-next v3 00/37] FUSE BPF: A Stacked Filesystem Extension for FUSE Amir Goldstein
2023-04-21  1:41   ` Daniel Rosenberg
2023-04-23 14:50     ` Amir Goldstein
2023-04-24 15:32 ` Miklos Szeredi
2023-05-02  0:07   ` Daniel Rosenberg
2023-05-17  2:50     ` Gao Xiang
2023-05-17  6:51       ` Amir Goldstein
2023-05-17  7:05         ` Gao Xiang
2023-05-17  7:19           ` Gao Xiang

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