From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
To: "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos@redhat.com>
Cc: Michael Kerrisk-manpages <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
Jakub Jelinek <jakub@redhat.com>,
"linux-man@vger.kernel.org" <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>,
lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Davidlohr Bueso <davidlohr.bueso@hp.com>,
Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: futex(2) man page update help request
Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 13:44:46 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALCETrU+DgzcjwjLUuvUrxnDDtjELOdPWXOgPFfbHiL6p-XvPA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5373D0CA.2050204@redhat.com>
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com> wrote:
> On 05/14/2014 03:03 PM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
>>> However, unless I'm sorely mistaken, the larger problem is that glibc
>>> removed the futex() call entirely, so these man pages don't describe
>>
>> I don't think futex() ever was in glibc--that's by design, and
>> completely understandable: no user-space application would want to
>> directly use futex(). (BTW, I mispoke in my earlier mail when I said I
>> wanted documentation suitable for "writers of library functions" -- I
>> meant suitable for "writers of *C library*".)
>
> I fully agree with Michael here.
>
> The futex() syscall was never exposed to userspace specifically because
> it was an interface we did not want to support forever with a stable ABI.
> The futex() syscall is an implementation detail that is shared between
> the kernel and the writers of core runtimes for Linux.
>
> The fact that the futex() syscall is out of date is my fault, is the fault
> of Linux kernel developers, etc. etc., we should all have reached out to
> Michael with patches to keep this developer-centric documentation updated.
I realize that this is out of scope for linux-abi, but I *stongly*
disagree with this notion. futex() needs to be just as stable as
anything else: old glibc versions must continue to work. I just
jumped through a bunch of hoops to keep a single glibc patch release
in OpenSUSE 9 working in a maintainable way; breaking futex will break
far more than that.
Additionally, at least the FUTEX_WAIT and FUTEX_WAKE operations are
extremely useful, and they can do things that are tedious at best
using mutexes and condvars. It's a simple API to use. I use it, and
I've seen plenty of other open-source apps using the futex API
directly.
I think the best way forward might be to try to convince the glibc
maintainers to add the wrapper.
--Andy
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-05-14 20:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 80+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-05-14 10:35 futex(2) man page update help request Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-05-14 16:18 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-14 19:03 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-05-14 19:59 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-14 20:23 ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-14 20:44 ` Andy Lutomirski [this message]
2014-05-14 23:34 ` Thomas Gleixner
2014-05-15 3:12 ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-15 4:49 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-05-15 4:53 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-05-15 14:14 ` Thomas Gleixner
2014-05-15 20:19 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-08-04 14:46 ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-15 20:35 ` Darren Hart
2015-01-15 15:12 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-17 1:33 ` Darren Hart
2015-01-17 9:16 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-17 19:26 ` Darren Hart
2015-01-18 10:18 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-15 15:10 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-15 22:23 ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-16 15:17 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-16 15:20 ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-16 20:54 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-17 0:46 ` Darren Hart
2015-01-19 10:45 ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-19 14:07 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-23 18:19 ` Torvald Riegel
2015-01-24 10:05 ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-24 12:58 ` Torvald Riegel
2015-01-24 16:25 ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-17 0:56 ` Davidlohr Bueso
2015-01-17 1:11 ` Darren Hart
2015-01-23 18:29 ` Torvald Riegel
2015-01-24 11:35 ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-24 13:12 ` Torvald Riegel
2015-01-27 7:48 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-05 19:57 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15 8:13 ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-15 15:43 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15 8:14 ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-15 13:18 ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-15 13:22 ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-15 13:49 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-05-15 13:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-15 14:39 ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-15 15:11 ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-14 20:56 ` Davidlohr Bueso
2014-05-14 21:03 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-14 22:21 ` Paul E. McKenney
2014-05-15 0:28 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 0:35 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-05-15 0:41 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 19:10 ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-14 21:05 ` Davidlohr Bueso
2014-05-15 15:15 ` Joseph S. Myers
2014-05-15 0:18 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 5:21 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15 8:23 ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-15 13:46 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-05-15 14:59 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 15:42 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 15:52 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 16:01 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 16:07 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 16:17 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 16:56 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 17:06 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 15:47 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15 15:35 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 15:28 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 15:40 ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-15 16:14 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15 16:30 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 18:17 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15 19:05 ` chrubis
2014-05-15 19:38 ` Darren Hart
2014-08-11 10:19 ` chrubis
2014-11-26 13:41 ` Cyril Hrubis
2015-02-16 13:14 ` Cyril Hrubis
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=CALCETrU+DgzcjwjLUuvUrxnDDtjELOdPWXOgPFfbHiL6p-XvPA@mail.gmail.com \
--to=luto@amacapital.net \
--cc=arnd@arndb.de \
--cc=carlos@redhat.com \
--cc=davidlohr.bueso@hp.com \
--cc=dvhart@linux.intel.com \
--cc=jakub@redhat.com \
--cc=linux-api@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-man@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=mingo@elte.hu \
--cc=mtk.manpages@gmail.com \
--cc=peterz@infradead.org \
--cc=rostedt@goodmis.org \
--cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).