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* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
@ 2020-07-05  2:06 Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05  2:16 ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-05 11:50 ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Jan Ziak @ 2020-07-05  2:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: gregkh
  Cc: linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

Hello

At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
system call can read just a single file.

Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
prefetch multiple files into memory).

While you are at it, why not also add a readfiles system call to read
multiple, presumably small, files? The initial unoptimized
implementation of readfiles syscall can simply call readfile
sequentially.

Sincerely
Jan (atomsymbol)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  2:06 [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster Jan Ziak
@ 2020-07-05  2:16 ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-05  2:46   ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05 11:50 ` Greg KH
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2020-07-05  2:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:06:22AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> Hello
> 
> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> system call can read just a single file.
> 
> Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
> call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
> using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
> prefetch multiple files into memory).

What API would you use for this?

ssize_t readfiles(int dfd, char **files, void **bufs, size_t *lens);

I pretty much hate this interface, so I hope you have something better
in mind.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  2:16 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2020-07-05  2:46   ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05  3:12     ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-05  6:32     ` Andreas Dilger
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Jan Ziak @ 2020-07-05  2:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matthew Wilcox
  Cc: gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:16 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:06:22AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> > reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> > would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> > operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> > system call can read just a single file.
> >
> > Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
> > call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
> > using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
> > prefetch multiple files into memory).
>
> What API would you use for this?
>
> ssize_t readfiles(int dfd, char **files, void **bufs, size_t *lens);
>
> I pretty much hate this interface, so I hope you have something better
> in mind.

I am proposing the following:

struct readfile_t {
  int dirfd;
  const char *pathname;
  void *buf;
  size_t count;
  int flags;
  ssize_t retval; // set by kernel
  int reserved; // not used by kernel
};

int readfiles(struct readfile_t *requests, size_t count);

Returns zero if all requests succeeded, otherwise the returned value
is non-zero (glibc wrapper: -1) and user-space is expected to check
which requests have succeeded and which have failed. retval in
readfile_t is set to what the single-file readfile syscall would
return if it was called with the contents of the corresponding
readfile_t struct.

The glibc library wrapper of this system call is expected to store the
errno in the "reserved" field. Thus, a programmer using glibc sees:

struct readfile_t {
  int dirfd;
  const char *pathname;
  void *buf;
  size_t count;
  int flags;
  ssize_t retval; // set by glibc (-1 on error)
  int errno; // set by glibc if retval is -1
};

retval and errno in glibc's readfile_t are set to what the single-file
glibc readfile would return (retval) and set (errno) if it was called
with the contents of the corresponding readfile_t struct. In case of
an error, glibc will pick one readfile_t which failed (such as: the
1st failed one) and use it to set glibc's errno.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  2:46   ` Jan Ziak
@ 2020-07-05  3:12     ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-05  3:18       ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05  6:32     ` Andreas Dilger
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2020-07-05  3:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:46:04AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:16 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:06:22AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > > Hello
> > >
> > > At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> > > reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> > > would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> > > operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> > > system call can read just a single file.
> > >
> > > Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
> > > call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
> > > using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
> > > prefetch multiple files into memory).
> >
> > What API would you use for this?
> >
> > ssize_t readfiles(int dfd, char **files, void **bufs, size_t *lens);
> >
> > I pretty much hate this interface, so I hope you have something better
> > in mind.
> 
> I am proposing the following:
> 
> struct readfile_t {
>   int dirfd;
>   const char *pathname;
>   void *buf;
>   size_t count;
>   int flags;
>   ssize_t retval; // set by kernel
>   int reserved; // not used by kernel
> };
> 
> int readfiles(struct readfile_t *requests, size_t count);
> 
> Returns zero if all requests succeeded, otherwise the returned value
> is non-zero (glibc wrapper: -1) and user-space is expected to check
> which requests have succeeded and which have failed. retval in
> readfile_t is set to what the single-file readfile syscall would
> return if it was called with the contents of the corresponding
> readfile_t struct.

You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
other opcodes.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  3:12     ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2020-07-05  3:18       ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05  3:27         ` Matthew Wilcox
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Jan Ziak @ 2020-07-05  3:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matthew Wilcox
  Cc: gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
>
> You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> other opcodes.

Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
for a new single-file readfile syscall.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  3:18       ` Jan Ziak
@ 2020-07-05  3:27         ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-05  4:09           ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05  8:07           ` Vito Caputo
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2020-07-05  3:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> >
> > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > other opcodes.
> 
> Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> for a new single-file readfile syscall.

It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
that Greg is looking to address.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  3:27         ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2020-07-05  4:09           ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05 11:58             ` Greg KH
  2020-07-05  8:07           ` Vito Caputo
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Jan Ziak @ 2020-07-05  4:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matthew Wilcox
  Cc: gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:27 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > > other opcodes.
> >
> > Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> > for a new single-file readfile syscall.
>
> It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
> to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
> interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
> that Greg is looking to address.

I believe that we should look at the single-file readfile syscall from
a performance viewpoint. If an application is expecting to read a
couple of small/medium-size files per second, then neither readfile
nor readfiles makes sense in terms of improving performance. The
benefits start to show up only in case an application is expecting to
read at least a hundred of files per second. The "per second" part is
important, it cannot be left out. Because readfile only improves
performance for many-file reads, the syscall that applications
performing many-file reads actually want is the multi-file version,
not the single-file version.

I am not sure I understand why you think that a pointer to an array of
readfile_t structures is very complex. If it was very complex then it
would be a deep tree or a large graph.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  2:46   ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05  3:12     ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2020-07-05  6:32     ` Andreas Dilger
  2020-07-05  7:25       ` Jan Ziak
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Dilger @ 2020-07-05  6:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: Matthew Wilcox, gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro


[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3451 bytes --]

On Jul 4, 2020, at 8:46 PM, Jan Ziak <0xe2.0x9a.0x9b@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:16 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:06:22AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
>>> Hello
>>> 
>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
>>> system call can read just a single file.
>>> 
>>> Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
>>> call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
>>> using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
>>> prefetch multiple files into memory).
>> 
>> What API would you use for this?
>> 
>> ssize_t readfiles(int dfd, char **files, void **bufs, size_t *lens);
>> 
>> I pretty much hate this interface, so I hope you have something better
>> in mind.
> 
> I am proposing the following:
> 
> struct readfile_t {
>  int dirfd;
>  const char *pathname;
>  void *buf;
>  size_t count;
>  int flags;
>  ssize_t retval; // set by kernel
>  int reserved; // not used by kernel
> };

If you are going to pass a struct from userspace to the kernel, it
should not mix int and pointer types (which may be 64-bit values,
so that there are not structure packing issues, like:

struct readfile {
	int	dirfd;
	int	flags;
	const char *pathname;
	void	*buf;
	size_t	count;
	ssize_t retval;
};

It would be better if "retval" was returned in "count", so that
the structure fits nicely into 32 bytes on a 64-bit system, instead
of being 40 bytes per entry, which adds up over many entries, like.

struct readfile {
	int	dirfd;
	int	flags;
	const char *pathname;
	void	*buf;
	ssize_t count;	/* input: bytes requested, output: bytes read or -errno */
};


However, there is still an issue with passing pointers from userspace,
since they may be 32-bit userspace pointers on a 64-bit kernel.

> int readfiles(struct readfile_t *requests, size_t count);

It's not clear why count is a "size_t" since it is not a size.
An unsigned int is fine here, since it should never be negative.

> Returns zero if all requests succeeded, otherwise the returned value
> is non-zero (glibc wrapper: -1) and user-space is expected to check
> which requests have succeeded and which have failed. retval in
> readfile_t is set to what the single-file readfile syscall would
> return if it was called with the contents of the corresponding
> readfile_t struct.
> 
> The glibc library wrapper of this system call is expected to store the
> errno in the "reserved" field. Thus, a programmer using glibc sees:
> 
> struct readfile_t {
>  int dirfd;
>  const char *pathname;
>  void *buf;
>  size_t count;
>  int flags;
>  ssize_t retval; // set by glibc (-1 on error)
>  int errno; // set by glibc if retval is -1
> };

Why not just return the errno directly in "retval", or in "count" as
proposed?  That avoids further bloating the structure by another field.

> retval and errno in glibc's readfile_t are set to what the single-file
> glibc readfile would return (retval) and set (errno) if it was called
> with the contents of the corresponding readfile_t struct. In case of
> an error, glibc will pick one readfile_t which failed (such as: the
> 1st failed one) and use it to set glibc's errno.


Cheers, Andreas






[-- Attachment #2: Message signed with OpenPGP --]
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  6:32     ` Andreas Dilger
@ 2020-07-05  7:25       ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05 12:00         ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Jan Ziak @ 2020-07-05  7:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Dilger
  Cc: Matthew Wilcox, gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 8:32 AM Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
>
> On Jul 4, 2020, at 8:46 PM, Jan Ziak <0xe2.0x9a.0x9b@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:16 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:06:22AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> >>> Hello
> >>>
> >>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> >>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> >>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> >>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> >>> system call can read just a single file.
> >>>
> >>> Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
> >>> call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
> >>> using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
> >>> prefetch multiple files into memory).
> >>
> >> What API would you use for this?
> >>
> >> ssize_t readfiles(int dfd, char **files, void **bufs, size_t *lens);
> >>
> >> I pretty much hate this interface, so I hope you have something better
> >> in mind.
> >
> > I am proposing the following:
> >
> > struct readfile_t {
> >  int dirfd;
> >  const char *pathname;
> >  void *buf;
> >  size_t count;
> >  int flags;
> >  ssize_t retval; // set by kernel
> >  int reserved; // not used by kernel
> > };
>
> If you are going to pass a struct from userspace to the kernel, it
> should not mix int and pointer types (which may be 64-bit values,
> so that there are not structure packing issues, like:
>
> struct readfile {
>         int     dirfd;
>         int     flags;
>         const char *pathname;
>         void    *buf;
>         size_t  count;
>         ssize_t retval;
> };
>
> It would be better if "retval" was returned in "count", so that
> the structure fits nicely into 32 bytes on a 64-bit system, instead
> of being 40 bytes per entry, which adds up over many entries, like.

I know what you mean and it is a valid point, but in my opinion it
shouldn't (in most cases) be left to the programmer to decide what the
binary layout of a data structure is - instead it should be left to an
optimizing compiler to decide it. Just like code optimization,
determining the physical layout of data structures can be subject to
automatic optimizations as well. It is kind of unfortunate that in
C/C++, and in many other statically compiled languages (even recent
ones), the physical layout of all data structures is determined by the
programmer rather than the compiler. Also, tagging fields as "input",
"output", or both (the default) would be helpful in obtaining smaller
sizes:

struct readfile_t {
  input int dirfd;
  input const char *pathname;
  input void *buf;
  input size_t count;
  input int flags;
  output ssize_t retval; // set by kernel
  output int reserved; // not used by kernel
};

int readfiles(struct readfile_t *requests, size_t count);

struct readfile_t r[10];
// Write r[i] inputs
int status = readfiles(r, nelem(r));
// Read r[i] outputs

A data-layout optimizing compiler should be able to determine that the
optimal layout of readfile_t is UNION(INPUT: 2*int+2*pointer+1*size_t,
OUTPUT: 1*ssize_t+1*int).

In the unfortunate case of the non-optimizing C language and if it is
just a micro-optimization (optimizing readfile_t is a
micro-optimization), it is better to leave the data structure in a
form that is appropriate for being efficiently readable by programmers
rather than to micro-optimize it and make it confusing to programmers.

> struct readfile {
>         int     dirfd;
>         int     flags;
>         const char *pathname;
>         void    *buf;
>         ssize_t count;  /* input: bytes requested, output: bytes read or -errno */
> };
>
>
> However, there is still an issue with passing pointers from userspace,
> since they may be 32-bit userspace pointers on a 64-bit kernel.
>
> > int readfiles(struct readfile_t *requests, size_t count);
>
> It's not clear why count is a "size_t" since it is not a size.
> An unsigned int is fine here, since it should never be negative.

Generally speaking, size_t reflects the size of the address space
while unsigned int doesn't and therefore it is easier for unsigned int
to overflow on very large data sets.

> > Returns zero if all requests succeeded, otherwise the returned value
> > is non-zero (glibc wrapper: -1) and user-space is expected to check
> > which requests have succeeded and which have failed. retval in
> > readfile_t is set to what the single-file readfile syscall would
> > return if it was called with the contents of the corresponding
> > readfile_t struct.
> >
> > The glibc library wrapper of this system call is expected to store the
> > errno in the "reserved" field. Thus, a programmer using glibc sees:
> >
> > struct readfile_t {
> >  int dirfd;
> >  const char *pathname;
> >  void *buf;
> >  size_t count;
> >  int flags;
> >  ssize_t retval; // set by glibc (-1 on error)
> >  int errno; // set by glibc if retval is -1
> > };
>
> Why not just return the errno directly in "retval", or in "count" as
> proposed?  That avoids further bloating the structure by another field.
>
> > retval and errno in glibc's readfile_t are set to what the single-file
> > glibc readfile would return (retval) and set (errno) if it was called
> > with the contents of the corresponding readfile_t struct. In case of
> > an error, glibc will pick one readfile_t which failed (such as: the
> > 1st failed one) and use it to set glibc's errno.
>
>
> Cheers, Andreas

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  3:27         ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-05  4:09           ` Jan Ziak
@ 2020-07-05  8:07           ` Vito Caputo
  2020-07-05 11:44             ` Greg KH
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Vito Caputo @ 2020-07-05  8:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matthew Wilcox
  Cc: Jan Ziak, gregkh, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:27:32AM +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > > other opcodes.
> > 
> > Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> > for a new single-file readfile syscall.
> 
> It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
> to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
> interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
> that Greg is looking to address.

I disagree re: "aren't part of the problem space".

Reading small files from procfs was specifically called out in the
rationale for the syscall.

In my experience you're rarely monitoring a single proc file in any
situation where you care about the syscall overhead.  You're
monitoring many of them, and any serious effort to do this efficiently
in a repeatedly sampled situation has cached the open fds and already
uses pread() to simply restart from 0 on every sample and not
repeatedly pay for the name lookup.

Basically anything optimally using the existing interfaces for
sampling proc files needs a way to read multiple open file descriptors
in a single syscall to move the needle.

This syscall doesn't provide that.  It doesn't really give any
advantage over what we can achieve already.  It seems basically
pointless to me, from a monitoring proc files perspective.

Regards,
Vito Caputo

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  8:07           ` Vito Caputo
@ 2020-07-05 11:44             ` Greg KH
  2020-07-05 20:34               ` Vito Caputo
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2020-07-05 11:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Vito Caputo
  Cc: Matthew Wilcox, Jan Ziak, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 01:07:14AM -0700, Vito Caputo wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:27:32AM +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > > > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > > > other opcodes.
> > > 
> > > Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> > > for a new single-file readfile syscall.
> > 
> > It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
> > to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
> > interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
> > that Greg is looking to address.
> 
> I disagree re: "aren't part of the problem space".
> 
> Reading small files from procfs was specifically called out in the
> rationale for the syscall.
> 
> In my experience you're rarely monitoring a single proc file in any
> situation where you care about the syscall overhead.  You're
> monitoring many of them, and any serious effort to do this efficiently
> in a repeatedly sampled situation has cached the open fds and already
> uses pread() to simply restart from 0 on every sample and not
> repeatedly pay for the name lookup.

That's your use case, but many other use cases are just "read a bunch of
sysfs files in one shot".  Examples of that are tools that monitor
uevents and lots of hardware-information gathering tools.

Also not all tools sem to be as smart as you think they are, look at
util-linux for loads of the "open/read/close" lots of files pattern.  I
had a half-baked patch to convert it to use readfile which I need to
polish off and post with the next series to show how this can be used to
both make userspace simpler as well as use less cpu time.

> Basically anything optimally using the existing interfaces for
> sampling proc files needs a way to read multiple open file descriptors
> in a single syscall to move the needle.

Is psutils using this type of interface, or do they constantly open
different files?

What about fun tools like bashtop:
	https://github.com/aristocratos/bashtop.git
which thankfully now relies on python's psutil package to parse proc in
semi-sane ways, but that package does loads of constant open/read/close
of proc files all the time from what I can tell.

And lots of people rely on python's psutil, right?

> This syscall doesn't provide that.  It doesn't really give any
> advantage over what we can achieve already.  It seems basically
> pointless to me, from a monitoring proc files perspective.

What "good" monitoring programs do you suggest follow the pattern you
recommend?

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  2:06 [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster Jan Ziak
  2020-07-05  2:16 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2020-07-05 11:50 ` Greg KH
  2020-07-14  6:51   ` Pavel Machek
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2020-07-05 11:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:06:22AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> Hello
> 
> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> system call can read just a single file.

If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
features/fixes were finished.

> Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
> call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
> using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
> prefetch multiple files into memory).

There's not much (but it is mesurable) need to prefetch virtual files
into memory first, which is primarily what this syscall is for (procfs,
sysfs, securityfs, etc.)  If you are dealing with real-disks, then yes,
the overhead of the syscall might be in the noise compared to the i/o
path of the data.

> While you are at it, why not also add a readfiles system call to read
> multiple, presumably small, files? The initial unoptimized
> implementation of readfiles syscall can simply call readfile
> sequentially.

Again, that's what io_uring is for.

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  4:09           ` Jan Ziak
@ 2020-07-05 11:58             ` Greg KH
  2020-07-06  6:07               ` Jan Ziak
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2020-07-05 11:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: Matthew Wilcox, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 06:09:03AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:27 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > > > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > > > other opcodes.
> > >
> > > Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> > > for a new single-file readfile syscall.
> >
> > It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
> > to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
> > interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
> > that Greg is looking to address.
> 
> I believe that we should look at the single-file readfile syscall from
> a performance viewpoint. If an application is expecting to read a
> couple of small/medium-size files per second, then neither readfile
> nor readfiles makes sense in terms of improving performance. The
> benefits start to show up only in case an application is expecting to
> read at least a hundred of files per second. The "per second" part is
> important, it cannot be left out. Because readfile only improves
> performance for many-file reads, the syscall that applications
> performing many-file reads actually want is the multi-file version,
> not the single-file version.

It also is a measurable increase over reading just a single file.
Here's my really really fast AMD system doing just one call to readfile
vs. one call sequence to open/read/close:

	$ ./readfile_speed -l 1
	Running readfile test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
	Took 3410 ns
	Running open/read/close test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
	Took 3780 ns

370ns isn't all that much, yes, but it is 370ns that could have been
used for something else :)

Look at the overhead these days of a syscall using something like perf
to see just how bad things have gotten on Intel-based systems (above was
AMD which doesn't suffer all the syscall slowdowns, only some).

I'm going to have to now dig up my old rpi to get the stats on that
thing, as well as some Intel boxes to show the problem I'm trying to
help out with here.  I'll post that for the next round of this patch
series.

> I am not sure I understand why you think that a pointer to an array of
> readfile_t structures is very complex. If it was very complex then it
> would be a deep tree or a large graph.

Of course you can make it more complex if you want, but look at the
existing tools that currently do many open/read/close sequences.  The
apis there don't lend themselves very well to knowing the larger list of
files ahead of time.  But I could be looking at the wrong thing, what
userspace programs are you thinking of that could be easily converted
into using something like this?

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05  7:25       ` Jan Ziak
@ 2020-07-05 12:00         ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2020-07-05 12:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: Andreas Dilger, Matthew Wilcox, linux-api, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah,
	viro

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 09:25:39AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 8:32 AM Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> >
> > On Jul 4, 2020, at 8:46 PM, Jan Ziak <0xe2.0x9a.0x9b@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:16 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:06:22AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > >>> Hello
> > >>>
> > >>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> > >>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> > >>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> > >>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> > >>> system call can read just a single file.
> > >>>
> > >>> Without the ability to read multiple small files using a single system
> > >>> call, it is impossible to increase IOPS (unless an application is
> > >>> using multiple reader threads or somehow instructs the kernel to
> > >>> prefetch multiple files into memory).
> > >>
> > >> What API would you use for this?
> > >>
> > >> ssize_t readfiles(int dfd, char **files, void **bufs, size_t *lens);
> > >>
> > >> I pretty much hate this interface, so I hope you have something better
> > >> in mind.
> > >
> > > I am proposing the following:
> > >
> > > struct readfile_t {
> > >  int dirfd;
> > >  const char *pathname;
> > >  void *buf;
> > >  size_t count;
> > >  int flags;
> > >  ssize_t retval; // set by kernel
> > >  int reserved; // not used by kernel
> > > };
> >
> > If you are going to pass a struct from userspace to the kernel, it
> > should not mix int and pointer types (which may be 64-bit values,
> > so that there are not structure packing issues, like:
> >
> > struct readfile {
> >         int     dirfd;
> >         int     flags;
> >         const char *pathname;
> >         void    *buf;
> >         size_t  count;
> >         ssize_t retval;
> > };
> >
> > It would be better if "retval" was returned in "count", so that
> > the structure fits nicely into 32 bytes on a 64-bit system, instead
> > of being 40 bytes per entry, which adds up over many entries, like.
> 
> I know what you mean and it is a valid point, but in my opinion it
> shouldn't (in most cases) be left to the programmer to decide what the
> binary layout of a data structure is - instead it should be left to an
> optimizing compiler to decide it.

We don't get that luxury when creating user/kernel apis in C, sorry.

I suggest using the pahole tool if you are interested in seeing the
"best" way a structure can be layed out, it can perform that
optimization for you so that you know how to fix your code.

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05 11:44             ` Greg KH
@ 2020-07-05 20:34               ` Vito Caputo
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Vito Caputo @ 2020-07-05 20:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: Matthew Wilcox, Jan Ziak, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro


[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5991 bytes --]

On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 01:44:54PM +0200, Greg KH wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 01:07:14AM -0700, Vito Caputo wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 04:27:32AM +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > > > > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > > > > other opcodes.
> > > > 
> > > > Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> > > > for a new single-file readfile syscall.
> > > 
> > > It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
> > > to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
> > > interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
> > > that Greg is looking to address.
> > 
> > I disagree re: "aren't part of the problem space".
> > 
> > Reading small files from procfs was specifically called out in the
> > rationale for the syscall.
> > 
> > In my experience you're rarely monitoring a single proc file in any
> > situation where you care about the syscall overhead.  You're
> > monitoring many of them, and any serious effort to do this efficiently
> > in a repeatedly sampled situation has cached the open fds and already
> > uses pread() to simply restart from 0 on every sample and not
> > repeatedly pay for the name lookup.
> 
> That's your use case, but many other use cases are just "read a bunch of
> sysfs files in one shot".  Examples of that are tools that monitor
> uevents and lots of hardware-information gathering tools.
> 
> Also not all tools sem to be as smart as you think they are, look at
> util-linux for loads of the "open/read/close" lots of files pattern.  I
> had a half-baked patch to convert it to use readfile which I need to
> polish off and post with the next series to show how this can be used to
> both make userspace simpler as well as use less cpu time.
> 
> > Basically anything optimally using the existing interfaces for
> > sampling proc files needs a way to read multiple open file descriptors
> > in a single syscall to move the needle.
> 
> Is psutils using this type of interface, or do they constantly open
> different files?
> 

When I last checked, psutils was not an optimal example, nor did I
suggest it was.

> What about fun tools like bashtop:
> 	https://github.com/aristocratos/bashtop.git
> which thankfully now relies on python's psutil package to parse proc in
> semi-sane ways, but that package does loads of constant open/read/close
> of proc files all the time from what I can tell.
> 
> And lots of people rely on python's psutil, right?

If python's psutil is constantly reopening the same files in /proc,
this is an argument to go improve python's psutil, especially if it's
popular.

Your proposed syscall doesn't magically make everything suboptimally
sampling proc more efficient.  It still requires going out and
modifying everything to use the new syscall.

In order to actually realize a gain comparable to what can be done
using existing interfaces, but with your new syscall, if the code
wasn't already reusing the open fd it still requires a refactor to do
so with your syscall, to eliminate the directory lookup on every
sample.

At the end of the day, if you did all this work, you'd have code that
only works on kernels with the new syscall, didn't enjoy a significant
performance gain over what could have been achieved using the existing
interfaces, and still required basically the same amount of work as
optimizing for the existing interfaces would have.  For what gain?

> 
> > This syscall doesn't provide that.  It doesn't really give any
> > advantage over what we can achieve already.  It seems basically
> > pointless to me, from a monitoring proc files perspective.
> 
> What "good" monitoring programs do you suggest follow the pattern you
> recommend?
> 

"Good" is not generally a word I'd use to describe software, surely
that's not me you're quoting... but I assume you mean "optimal".

I'm sure sysprof is at least reusing open files when sampling proc,
because we discussed the issue when Christian took over maintenance.

It appears he's currently using the lseek()->read() sequence:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/sysprof/-/blob/master/src/libsysprof/sysprof-netdev-source.c#L223
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/sysprof/-/blob/master/src/libsysprof/sysprof-memory-source.c#L210
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/sysprof/-/blob/master/src/libsysprof/sysprof-diskstat-source.c#L185

It'd be more efficient to just use pread() and lose the lseek(), at
which point it'd be just a single pread() call per sample per proc
file.  Nothing your proposed syscall would improve upon, not that it'd
be eligible for software that wants to work on existing kernels from
distros like Debian and Centos/RHEL anyways.

If this were a conversation about providing something like a better
scatter-gather interface akin to p{read,write}v but with the fd in the
iovec, then we'd be talking about something very lucrative for proc
sampling. But like you've said elsewhere in this thread, io_uring()
may suffice as an alternative solution in that vein.

My personal interest in this topic stems from an experimental window
manager I made, and still use, which monitors every descendant process
for the X session at frequencies up to 60HZ.  The code opens a bunch
of proc files for every process, and keeps them open until the process
goes away or falls out of scope.  See the attachment for some idea of
what /proc/$(pidof wm)/fd looks like.  All those proc files are read
at up to 60HZ continuously.

All top-like tools are really no different, and already shouldn't be
reopening things on every sample.  They should be fixed if not - with
or without your syscall, it's equal effort, but the existing
interfaces... exist.

Regards,
Vito Caputo

[-- Attachment #2: vwm-fds.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 18703 bytes --]

total 0
lrwx------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 0 -> /dev/tty1
l-wx------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 1 -> /home/vcaputo/.xsession-errors
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 10 -> /proc/829/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 100 -> /proc/8427/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 101 -> /proc/8428/task/8428/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 102 -> /proc/8428/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 103 -> /proc/8428/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 104 -> /proc/8428/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 105 -> /proc/8428/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 106 -> /proc/8430/task/8430/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 107 -> /proc/8430/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 108 -> /proc/8430/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 109 -> /proc/8430/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 11 -> /proc/830/task/830/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 110 -> /proc/8430/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 111 -> /proc/8433/task/8433/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 112 -> /proc/8433/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 113 -> /proc/8433/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 114 -> /proc/8433/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 115 -> /proc/8433/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 116 -> /proc/8434/task/8434/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 117 -> /proc/8434/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 118 -> /proc/8434/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 119 -> /proc/8434/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 12 -> /proc/830/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 120 -> /proc/8434/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 121 -> /proc/12400/task/12400/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 122 -> /proc/12400/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 123 -> /proc/12400/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 124 -> /proc/12400/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 125 -> /proc/12400/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 126 -> /proc/11921/task/11921/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 127 -> /proc/11921/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 128 -> /proc/11921/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 129 -> /proc/11921/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 13 -> /proc/830/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 130 -> /proc/11921/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 131 -> /proc/30440/task/30440/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 132 -> /proc/30440/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 133 -> /proc/30440/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 134 -> /proc/30440/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 135 -> /proc/30440/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 136 -> /proc/5841/task/5841/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 137 -> /proc/5841/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 138 -> /proc/5841/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 139 -> /proc/5841/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 14 -> /proc/830/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 140 -> /proc/5841/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 141 -> /proc/25853/task/25853/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 142 -> /proc/25853/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 143 -> /proc/25853/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 144 -> /proc/25853/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 145 -> /proc/25853/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 146 -> /proc/25854/task/25854/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 147 -> /proc/25854/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 148 -> /proc/25854/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 149 -> /proc/25854/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 15 -> /proc/830/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 150 -> /proc/25854/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 151 -> /proc/25856/task/25856/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 152 -> /proc/25856/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 153 -> /proc/25856/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 154 -> /proc/25856/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 155 -> /proc/25856/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 156 -> /proc/25859/task/25859/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 157 -> /proc/25859/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 158 -> /proc/25859/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 159 -> /proc/25859/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 16 -> /proc/831/task/831/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 160 -> /proc/25859/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 161 -> /proc/5843/task/5843/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 162 -> /proc/5843/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 163 -> /proc/5843/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 164 -> /proc/5843/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 165 -> /proc/5843/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 166 -> /proc/5848/task/5848/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 167 -> /proc/5848/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 168 -> /proc/5848/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 169 -> /proc/5848/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 17 -> /proc/831/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 170 -> /proc/5848/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 171 -> /proc/5848/task
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 172 -> /proc/5848/task/5848/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 173 -> /proc/5848/task/5848/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 174 -> /proc/5848/task/5848/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 175 -> /proc/5848/task/5848/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 176 -> /proc/5849/task/5849/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 177 -> /proc/5849/task/5849/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 178 -> /proc/5849/task/5849/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 179 -> /proc/5849/task/5849/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 18 -> /proc/831/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 180 -> /proc/5850/task/5850/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 181 -> /proc/30441/task/30441/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 182 -> /proc/30441/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 183 -> /proc/30441/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 184 -> /proc/30441/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 185 -> /proc/30441/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 186 -> /proc/30443/task/30443/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 187 -> /proc/30443/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 188 -> /proc/30443/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 189 -> /proc/30443/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 19 -> /proc/831/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 190 -> /proc/30443/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 191 -> /proc/30446/task/30446/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 192 -> /proc/30446/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 193 -> /proc/30446/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 194 -> /proc/30446/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 195 -> /proc/30446/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 196 -> /proc/30447/task/30447/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 197 -> /proc/30447/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 198 -> /proc/30447/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 199 -> /proc/30447/wchan
l-wx------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 2 -> /home/vcaputo/.xsession-errors
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 20 -> /proc/831/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 200 -> /proc/30447/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 201 -> /proc/30448/task/30448/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 202 -> /proc/30448/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 203 -> /proc/30448/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 204 -> /proc/30448/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 205 -> /proc/30448/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 206 -> /proc/30451/task/30451/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 207 -> /proc/30451/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 208 -> /proc/30451/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 209 -> /proc/30451/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 21 -> /proc/832/task/832/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 210 -> /proc/30451/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 211 -> /proc/30451/task
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 212 -> /proc/30451/task/30451/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 213 -> /proc/30451/task/30451/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 214 -> /proc/30451/task/30451/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 215 -> /proc/30451/task/30451/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 216 -> /proc/30452/task/30452/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 217 -> /proc/30452/task/30452/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 218 -> /proc/30452/task/30452/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 219 -> /proc/30452/task/30452/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 22 -> /proc/832/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 220 -> /proc/30453/task/30453/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 221 -> /proc/30453/task/30453/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 222 -> /proc/30453/task/30453/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 223 -> /proc/30453/task/30453/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 224 -> /proc/30454/task/30454/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 225 -> /proc/30454/task/30454/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 226 -> /proc/30454/task/30454/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 227 -> /proc/30454/task/30454/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 228 -> /proc/30455/task/30455/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 229 -> /proc/30455/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 23 -> /proc/832/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 230 -> /proc/30455/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 231 -> /proc/30455/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 232 -> /proc/30455/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 233 -> /proc/30458/task/30458/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 234 -> /proc/30458/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 235 -> /proc/30458/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 236 -> /proc/30458/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 237 -> /proc/30458/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 238 -> /proc/5850/task/5850/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 239 -> /proc/5850/task/5850/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 24 -> /proc/832/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 240 -> /proc/5850/task/5850/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 241 -> /proc/5851/task/5851/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 242 -> /proc/5851/task/5851/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 243 -> /proc/5851/task/5851/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 244 -> /proc/5851/task/5851/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 245 -> /proc/5853/task/5853/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 246 -> /proc/5853/task/5853/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 247 -> /proc/5853/task/5853/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 248 -> /proc/5853/task/5853/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 249 -> /proc/5856/task/5856/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 25 -> /proc/832/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 250 -> /proc/5856/task/5856/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 251 -> /proc/5856/task/5856/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 252 -> /proc/5856/task/5856/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 253 -> /proc/6844/task/6844/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 254 -> /proc/6844/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 255 -> /proc/6844/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 256 -> /proc/6844/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 257 -> /proc/6844/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 26 -> /proc/833/task/833/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 27 -> /proc/833/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 28 -> /proc/833/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 29 -> /proc/833/wchan
lrwx------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 3 -> socket:[19590]
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 30 -> /proc/833/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 31 -> /proc/839/task/839/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 32 -> /proc/839/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 33 -> /proc/839/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 34 -> /proc/839/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 35 -> /proc/839/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 36 -> /proc/840/task/840/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 37 -> /proc/840/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 38 -> /proc/840/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 39 -> /proc/840/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 4 -> /proc
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 40 -> /proc/840/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 41 -> /proc/842/task/842/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 42 -> /proc/842/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 43 -> /proc/842/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 44 -> /proc/842/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 45 -> /proc/842/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 46 -> /proc/5858/task/5858/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 47 -> /proc/5858/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 48 -> /proc/5858/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 49 -> /proc/5858/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 5 -> /proc/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 50 -> /proc/5858/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 51 -> /proc/6841/task/6841/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 52 -> /proc/6841/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 53 -> /proc/6841/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 54 -> /proc/6841/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 55 -> /proc/6841/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 56 -> /proc/6842/task/6842/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 57 -> /proc/6842/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 58 -> /proc/6842/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 59 -> /proc/6842/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 6 -> /proc/829/task/829/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 60 -> /proc/6842/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 61 -> /proc/5840/task/5840/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 62 -> /proc/5840/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 63 -> /proc/5840/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 64 -> /proc/5840/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 65 -> /proc/5840/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 66 -> /proc/896/task/896/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 67 -> /proc/896/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 68 -> /proc/896/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 69 -> /proc/896/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 7 -> /proc/829/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 70 -> /proc/896/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 71 -> /proc/897/task/897/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 72 -> /proc/897/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 73 -> /proc/897/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 74 -> /proc/897/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 75 -> /proc/897/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 76 -> /proc/899/task/899/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 77 -> /proc/899/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 78 -> /proc/899/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 79 -> /proc/899/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 8 -> /proc/829/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 80 -> /proc/899/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 81 -> /proc/2293/task/2293/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 82 -> /proc/2293/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 83 -> /proc/2293/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 84 -> /proc/2293/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 85 -> /proc/2293/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 86 -> /proc/2294/task/2294/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 87 -> /proc/2294/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 88 -> /proc/2294/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 89 -> /proc/2294/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 9 -> /proc/829/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 90 -> /proc/2294/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 91 -> /proc/2296/task/2296/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 92 -> /proc/2296/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 93 -> /proc/2296/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 94 -> /proc/2296/wchan
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 95 -> /proc/2296/stat
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 96 -> /proc/8427/task/8427/children
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 97 -> /proc/8427/comm
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 98 -> /proc/8427/cmdline
lr-x------ 1 vcaputo vcaputo 64 Jul  5 13:16 99 -> /proc/8427/wchan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05 11:58             ` Greg KH
@ 2020-07-06  6:07               ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-06 11:11                 ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-06 11:18                 ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Jan Ziak @ 2020-07-06  6:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: Matthew Wilcox, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 1:58 PM Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 06:09:03AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:27 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > > > > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > > > > other opcodes.
> > > >
> > > > Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> > > > for a new single-file readfile syscall.
> > >
> > > It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
> > > to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
> > > interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
> > > that Greg is looking to address.
> >
> > I believe that we should look at the single-file readfile syscall from
> > a performance viewpoint. If an application is expecting to read a
> > couple of small/medium-size files per second, then neither readfile
> > nor readfiles makes sense in terms of improving performance. The
> > benefits start to show up only in case an application is expecting to
> > read at least a hundred of files per second. The "per second" part is
> > important, it cannot be left out. Because readfile only improves
> > performance for many-file reads, the syscall that applications
> > performing many-file reads actually want is the multi-file version,
> > not the single-file version.
>
> It also is a measurable increase over reading just a single file.
> Here's my really really fast AMD system doing just one call to readfile
> vs. one call sequence to open/read/close:
>
>         $ ./readfile_speed -l 1
>         Running readfile test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
>         Took 3410 ns
>         Running open/read/close test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
>         Took 3780 ns
>
> 370ns isn't all that much, yes, but it is 370ns that could have been
> used for something else :)

I am curious as to how you amortized or accounted for the fact that
readfile() first needs to open the dirfd and then close it later.

From performance viewpoint, only codes where readfile() is called
multiple times from within a loop make sense:

dirfd = open();
for(...) {
  readfile(dirfd, ...);
}
close(dirfd);

> Look at the overhead these days of a syscall using something like perf
> to see just how bad things have gotten on Intel-based systems (above was
> AMD which doesn't suffer all the syscall slowdowns, only some).
>
> I'm going to have to now dig up my old rpi to get the stats on that
> thing, as well as some Intel boxes to show the problem I'm trying to
> help out with here.  I'll post that for the next round of this patch
> series.
>
> > I am not sure I understand why you think that a pointer to an array of
> > readfile_t structures is very complex. If it was very complex then it
> > would be a deep tree or a large graph.
>
> Of course you can make it more complex if you want, but look at the
> existing tools that currently do many open/read/close sequences.  The
> apis there don't lend themselves very well to knowing the larger list of
> files ahead of time.  But I could be looking at the wrong thing, what
> userspace programs are you thinking of that could be easily converted
> into using something like this?

Perhaps, passing multiple filenames to tools via the command-line is a
valid and quite general use case where it is known ahead of time that
multiple files are going to be read, such as "gcc *.o" which is
commonly used to link shared libraries and executables. Although, in
case of "gcc *.o" some of the object files are likely to be cached in
memory and thus unlikely to be required to be fetched from HDD/SSD, so
the valid use case where we could see a speedup (if gcc was to use the
multi-file readfiles() syscall) is when the programmer/Makefile
invokes "gcc *.o" after rebuilding a small subset of the object files
and the objects files which did not have to be rebuilt are stored on
HDD/SSD, so basically this means 1st-time use of a project's Makefile
in a particular day.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-06  6:07               ` Jan Ziak
@ 2020-07-06 11:11                 ` Matthew Wilcox
  2020-07-06 11:18                 ` Greg KH
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2020-07-06 11:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: Greg KH, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-kselftest,
	linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 08:07:46AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 1:58 PM Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > It also is a measurable increase over reading just a single file.
> > Here's my really really fast AMD system doing just one call to readfile
> > vs. one call sequence to open/read/close:
> >
> >         $ ./readfile_speed -l 1
> >         Running readfile test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
> >         Took 3410 ns
> >         Running open/read/close test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
> >         Took 3780 ns
> >
> > 370ns isn't all that much, yes, but it is 370ns that could have been
> > used for something else :)
> 
> I am curious as to how you amortized or accounted for the fact that
> readfile() first needs to open the dirfd and then close it later.
> 
> >From performance viewpoint, only codes where readfile() is called
> multiple times from within a loop make sense:
> 
> dirfd = open();
> for(...) {
>   readfile(dirfd, ...);
> }
> close(dirfd);

dirfd can be AT_FDCWD or if the path is absolute, dirfd will be ignored,
so one does not have to open anything.  It would be an optimisation
if one wanted to read several files relating to the same process:

char dir[50];
sprintf(dir, "/proc/%d", pid);
dirfd = open(dir);
readfile(dirfd, "maps", ...);
readfile(dirfd, "stack", ...);
readfile(dirfd, "comm", ...);
readfile(dirfd, "environ", ...);
close(dirfd);

but one would not have to do that.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-06  6:07               ` Jan Ziak
  2020-07-06 11:11                 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2020-07-06 11:18                 ` Greg KH
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2020-07-06 11:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Ziak
  Cc: Matthew Wilcox, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro

On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 08:07:46AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 1:58 PM Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 06:09:03AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:27 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jul 05, 2020 at 05:18:58AM +0200, Jan Ziak wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:12 AM Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You should probably take a look at io_uring.  That has the level of
> > > > > > complexity of this proposal and supports open/read/close along with many
> > > > > > other opcodes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then glibc can implement readfile using io_uring and there is no need
> > > > > for a new single-file readfile syscall.
> > > >
> > > > It could, sure.  But there's also a value in having a simple interface
> > > > to accomplish a simple task.  Your proposed API added a very complex
> > > > interface to satisfy needs that clearly aren't part of the problem space
> > > > that Greg is looking to address.
> > >
> > > I believe that we should look at the single-file readfile syscall from
> > > a performance viewpoint. If an application is expecting to read a
> > > couple of small/medium-size files per second, then neither readfile
> > > nor readfiles makes sense in terms of improving performance. The
> > > benefits start to show up only in case an application is expecting to
> > > read at least a hundred of files per second. The "per second" part is
> > > important, it cannot be left out. Because readfile only improves
> > > performance for many-file reads, the syscall that applications
> > > performing many-file reads actually want is the multi-file version,
> > > not the single-file version.
> >
> > It also is a measurable increase over reading just a single file.
> > Here's my really really fast AMD system doing just one call to readfile
> > vs. one call sequence to open/read/close:
> >
> >         $ ./readfile_speed -l 1
> >         Running readfile test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
> >         Took 3410 ns
> >         Running open/read/close test on file /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown for 1 loops...
> >         Took 3780 ns
> >
> > 370ns isn't all that much, yes, but it is 370ns that could have been
> > used for something else :)
> 
> I am curious as to how you amortized or accounted for the fact that
> readfile() first needs to open the dirfd and then close it later.

I do not open a dirfd, look at the benchmark code in the patch, it's all
right there.

I can make it simpler, will do that for the next round as I want to make
it really obvious for people to test on their hardware.

> >From performance viewpoint, only codes where readfile() is called
> multiple times from within a loop make sense:
> 
> dirfd = open();
> for(...) {
>   readfile(dirfd, ...);
> }
> close(dirfd);

No need to open dirfd at all, my benchmarks did not do that, just pass
in an absolute path if you don't want to.  But if you want to, because
you want to read a bunch of files, you can, faster than you could if you
wanted to read a number of individual files without it :)

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-05 11:50 ` Greg KH
@ 2020-07-14  6:51   ` Pavel Machek
  2020-07-14  8:07     ` Miklos Szeredi
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Machek @ 2020-07-14  6:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: Jan Ziak, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, mtk.manpages, shuah, viro


[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 919 bytes --]

Hi!

> > At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> > reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> > would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> > operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> > system call can read just a single file.
> 
> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
> was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
> features/fixes were finished.

What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
need for new syscall.
							Pavel
							
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 181 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-14  6:51   ` Pavel Machek
@ 2020-07-14  8:07     ` Miklos Szeredi
  2020-07-14 11:34       ` Pavel Begunkov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2020-07-14  8:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Machek
  Cc: Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah, Al Viro,
	io-uring

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek <pavel@denx.de> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> > > At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> > > reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> > > would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> > > operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> > > system call can read just a single file.
> >
> > If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
> > was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
> > open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
> > features/fixes were finished.
>
> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
> need for new syscall.

Just wondering:  is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring?
And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but
tracing the ring itself.

I think that's quite important as io_uring becomes mainstream.

Thanks,
Miklos

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-14  8:07     ` Miklos Szeredi
@ 2020-07-14 11:34       ` Pavel Begunkov
  2020-07-14 11:55         ` Miklos Szeredi
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Begunkov @ 2020-07-14 11:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Miklos Szeredi, Pavel Machek
  Cc: Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah, Al Viro,
	io-uring

On 14/07/2020 11:07, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek <pavel@denx.de> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
>>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
>>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
>>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
>>>> system call can read just a single file.
>>>
>>> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
>>> was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
>>> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
>>> features/fixes were finished.
>>
>> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
>> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
>> need for new syscall.
> 
> Just wondering:  is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring?
> And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but
> tracing the ring itself.

What kind of support do you mean? io_uring is asynchronous in nature
with all intrinsic tracing/debugging/etc. problems of such APIs.
And there are a lot of handy trace points, are those not enough?

Though, this can be an interesting project to rethink how async
APIs are worked with.

> 
> I think that's quite important as io_uring becomes mainstream.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-14 11:34       ` Pavel Begunkov
@ 2020-07-14 11:55         ` Miklos Szeredi
  2020-07-15  8:31           ` Pavel Begunkov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2020-07-14 11:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Begunkov
  Cc: Pavel Machek, Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah,
	Al Viro, io-uring

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 1:36 PM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 14/07/2020 11:07, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek <pavel@denx.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >>
> >>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> >>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> >>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> >>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> >>>> system call can read just a single file.
> >>>
> >>> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
> >>> was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
> >>> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
> >>> features/fixes were finished.
> >>
> >> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
> >> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
> >> need for new syscall.
> >
> > Just wondering:  is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring?
> > And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but
> > tracing the ring itself.
>
> What kind of support do you mean? io_uring is asynchronous in nature
> with all intrinsic tracing/debugging/etc. problems of such APIs.
> And there are a lot of handy trace points, are those not enough?
>
> Though, this can be an interesting project to rethink how async
> APIs are worked with.

Yeah, it's an interesting problem.  The uring has the same events, as
far as I understand, that are recorded in a multithreaded strace
output (syscall entry, syscall exit); nothing more is needed.

I do think this needs to be integrated into strace(1), otherwise the
usefulness of that tool (which I think is *very* high) would go down
drastically as io_uring usage goes up.

Thanks,
Miklos

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-14 11:55         ` Miklos Szeredi
@ 2020-07-15  8:31           ` Pavel Begunkov
  2020-07-15  8:41             ` Miklos Szeredi
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Begunkov @ 2020-07-15  8:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Miklos Szeredi
  Cc: Pavel Machek, Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah,
	Al Viro, io-uring

On 14/07/2020 14:55, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 1:36 PM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 14/07/2020 11:07, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek <pavel@denx.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
>>>>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
>>>>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
>>>>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
>>>>>> system call can read just a single file.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
>>>>> was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
>>>>> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
>>>>> features/fixes were finished.
>>>>
>>>> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
>>>> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
>>>> need for new syscall.
>>>
>>> Just wondering:  is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring?
>>> And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but
>>> tracing the ring itself.
>>
>> What kind of support do you mean? io_uring is asynchronous in nature
>> with all intrinsic tracing/debugging/etc. problems of such APIs.
>> And there are a lot of handy trace points, are those not enough?
>>
>> Though, this can be an interesting project to rethink how async
>> APIs are worked with.
> 
> Yeah, it's an interesting problem.  The uring has the same events, as
> far as I understand, that are recorded in a multithreaded strace
> output (syscall entry, syscall exit); nothing more is needed> 
> I do think this needs to be integrated into strace(1), otherwise the
> usefulness of that tool (which I think is *very* high) would go down
> drastically as io_uring usage goes up.

Not touching the topic of usefulness of strace + io_uring, but I'd rather
have a tool that solves a problem, than a problem that created and honed
for a tool.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-15  8:31           ` Pavel Begunkov
@ 2020-07-15  8:41             ` Miklos Szeredi
  2020-07-15  8:49               ` Pavel Begunkov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2020-07-15  8:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Begunkov
  Cc: Pavel Machek, Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah,
	Al Viro, io-uring

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:33 AM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 14/07/2020 14:55, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 1:36 PM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 14/07/2020 11:07, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek <pavel@denx.de> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi!
> >>>>
> >>>>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
> >>>>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
> >>>>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
> >>>>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
> >>>>>> system call can read just a single file.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
> >>>>> was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
> >>>>> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
> >>>>> features/fixes were finished.
> >>>>
> >>>> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
> >>>> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
> >>>> need for new syscall.
> >>>
> >>> Just wondering:  is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring?
> >>> And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but
> >>> tracing the ring itself.
> >>
> >> What kind of support do you mean? io_uring is asynchronous in nature
> >> with all intrinsic tracing/debugging/etc. problems of such APIs.
> >> And there are a lot of handy trace points, are those not enough?
> >>
> >> Though, this can be an interesting project to rethink how async
> >> APIs are worked with.
> >
> > Yeah, it's an interesting problem.  The uring has the same events, as
> > far as I understand, that are recorded in a multithreaded strace
> > output (syscall entry, syscall exit); nothing more is needed>
> > I do think this needs to be integrated into strace(1), otherwise the
> > usefulness of that tool (which I think is *very* high) would go down
> > drastically as io_uring usage goes up.
>
> Not touching the topic of usefulness of strace + io_uring, but I'd rather
> have a tool that solves a problem, than a problem that created and honed
> for a tool.

Sorry, I'm not getting the metaphor.  Can you please elaborate?

Thanks,
Miklos

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-15  8:41             ` Miklos Szeredi
@ 2020-07-15  8:49               ` Pavel Begunkov
  2020-07-15  9:00                 ` Pavel Begunkov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Begunkov @ 2020-07-15  8:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Miklos Szeredi
  Cc: Pavel Machek, Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah,
	Al Viro, io-uring

On 15/07/2020 11:41, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:33 AM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 14/07/2020 14:55, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 1:36 PM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 14/07/2020 11:07, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek <pavel@denx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
>>>>>>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
>>>>>>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
>>>>>>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
>>>>>>>> system call can read just a single file.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
>>>>>>> was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
>>>>>>> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
>>>>>>> features/fixes were finished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
>>>>>> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
>>>>>> need for new syscall.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just wondering:  is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring?
>>>>> And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but
>>>>> tracing the ring itself.
>>>>
>>>> What kind of support do you mean? io_uring is asynchronous in nature
>>>> with all intrinsic tracing/debugging/etc. problems of such APIs.
>>>> And there are a lot of handy trace points, are those not enough?
>>>>
>>>> Though, this can be an interesting project to rethink how async
>>>> APIs are worked with.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's an interesting problem.  The uring has the same events, as
>>> far as I understand, that are recorded in a multithreaded strace
>>> output (syscall entry, syscall exit); nothing more is needed>
>>> I do think this needs to be integrated into strace(1), otherwise the
>>> usefulness of that tool (which I think is *very* high) would go down
>>> drastically as io_uring usage goes up.
>>
>> Not touching the topic of usefulness of strace + io_uring, but I'd rather
>> have a tool that solves a problem, than a problem that created and honed
>> for a tool.
> 
> Sorry, I'm not getting the metaphor.  Can you please elaborate?

Sure, I mean _if_ there are tools that conceptually suit better, I'd
prefer to work with them, then trying to shove a new and possibly alien
infrastructure into strace.

But my knowledge of strace is very limited, so can't tell whether that's
the case. E.g. can it utilise static trace points?

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-15  8:49               ` Pavel Begunkov
@ 2020-07-15  9:00                 ` Pavel Begunkov
  2020-07-15 11:17                   ` Miklos Szeredi
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Begunkov @ 2020-07-15  9:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Miklos Szeredi
  Cc: Pavel Machek, Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah,
	Al Viro, io-uring

On 15/07/2020 11:49, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> On 15/07/2020 11:41, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:33 AM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 14/07/2020 14:55, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 1:36 PM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14/07/2020 11:07, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek <pavel@denx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of
>>>>>>>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which
>>>>>>>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O
>>>>>>>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed
>>>>>>>>> system call can read just a single file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it
>>>>>>>> was designed for.  I think Jens was going to be adding support for the
>>>>>>>> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing
>>>>>>>> features/fixes were finished.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty
>>>>>>> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding
>>>>>>> need for new syscall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just wondering:  is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring?
>>>>>> And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but
>>>>>> tracing the ring itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> What kind of support do you mean? io_uring is asynchronous in nature
>>>>> with all intrinsic tracing/debugging/etc. problems of such APIs.
>>>>> And there are a lot of handy trace points, are those not enough?
>>>>>
>>>>> Though, this can be an interesting project to rethink how async
>>>>> APIs are worked with.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it's an interesting problem.  The uring has the same events, as
>>>> far as I understand, that are recorded in a multithreaded strace
>>>> output (syscall entry, syscall exit); nothing more is needed>
>>>> I do think this needs to be integrated into strace(1), otherwise the
>>>> usefulness of that tool (which I think is *very* high) would go down
>>>> drastically as io_uring usage goes up.
>>>
>>> Not touching the topic of usefulness of strace + io_uring, but I'd rather
>>> have a tool that solves a problem, than a problem that created and honed
>>> for a tool.
>>
>> Sorry, I'm not getting the metaphor.  Can you please elaborate?
> 
> Sure, I mean _if_ there are tools that conceptually suit better, I'd
> prefer to work with them, then trying to shove a new and possibly alien
> infrastructure into strace.
> 
> But my knowledge of strace is very limited, so can't tell whether that's
> the case. E.g. can it utilise static trace points?

I think, if you're going to push this idea, we should start a new thread
CC'ing strace devs.
	
-- 
Pavel Begunkov

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-15  9:00                 ` Pavel Begunkov
@ 2020-07-15 11:17                   ` Miklos Szeredi
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2020-07-15 11:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Begunkov
  Cc: Pavel Machek, Greg KH, Jan Ziak, Linux API, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-man, Michael Kerrisk, shuah,
	Al Viro, io-uring

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:02 AM Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think, if you're going to push this idea, we should start a new thread
> CC'ing strace devs.

Makes sense.   I've pruned the Cc list, so here's the link for reference:

https://lore.kernel.org/linux-fsdevel/CAJfpegu3EwbBFTSJiPhm7eMyTK2MzijLUp1gcboOo3meMF_+Qg@mail.gmail.com/T/#u

Thanks,
Miklos

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-04 14:02 Greg Kroah-Hartman
  2020-07-04 19:30 ` Al Viro
@ 2020-07-06 17:25 ` Dave Martin
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Dave Martin @ 2020-07-06 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg Kroah-Hartman
  Cc: viro, mtk.manpages, shuah, linux-api, linux-fsdevel,
	linux-kernel, linux-man, linux-kselftest

On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 04:02:46PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> Here is a tiny new syscall, readfile, that makes it simpler to read
> small/medium sized files all in one shot, no need to do open/read/close.
> This is especially helpful for tools that poke around in procfs or
> sysfs, making a little bit of a less system load than before, especially
> as syscall overheads go up over time due to various CPU bugs being
> addressed.
> 
> There are 4 patches in this series, the first 3 are against the kernel
> tree, adding the syscall logic, wiring up the syscall, and adding some
> tests for it.
> 
> The last patch is agains the man-pages project, adding a tiny man page
> to try to describe the new syscall.

General question, using this series as an illustration only:


At the risk of starting a flamewar, why is this needed?  Is there a
realistic usecase that would get significant benefit from this?

A lot of syscalls seem to get added that combine or refactor the
functionality of existing syscalls without justifying why this is
needed (or even wise).  This case feels like a solution, not a
primitive, so I wonder if the long-term ABI fragmentation is worth the
benefit.

I ask because I'd like to get an idea of the policy on what is and is
not considered a frivolous ABI extension.

(I'm sure a usecase must be in mind, but it isn't mentioned here.
Certainly the time it takes top to dump the contents of /proc leaves
something to be desired.)

Cheers
---Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-04 19:30 ` Al Viro
@ 2020-07-05 11:47   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Greg Kroah-Hartman @ 2020-07-05 11:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Al Viro
  Cc: mtk.manpages, shuah, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-man, linux-kselftest

On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 08:30:40PM +0100, Al Viro wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 04:02:46PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > Here is a tiny new syscall, readfile, that makes it simpler to read
> > small/medium sized files all in one shot, no need to do open/read/close.
> > This is especially helpful for tools that poke around in procfs or
> > sysfs, making a little bit of a less system load than before, especially
> > as syscall overheads go up over time due to various CPU bugs being
> > addressed.
> 
> Nice series, but you are 3 months late with it...  Next AFD, perhaps?

Perhaps :)

> Seriously, the rationale is bollocks.  If the overhead of 2 extra
> syscalls is anywhere near the costs of the real work being done by
> that thing, we have already lost and the best thing to do is to
> throw the system away and start with saner hardware.

The real-work the kernel does is almost neglegant compared to the
open/close overhead of the syscalls on some platforms today.  I'll post
benchmarks with the next version of this patch series to hopefully show
that.  If not, then yeah, this isn't worth it, but it was fun to write.

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
  2020-07-04 14:02 Greg Kroah-Hartman
@ 2020-07-04 19:30 ` Al Viro
  2020-07-05 11:47   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
  2020-07-06 17:25 ` Dave Martin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Al Viro @ 2020-07-04 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg Kroah-Hartman
  Cc: mtk.manpages, shuah, linux-api, linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel,
	linux-man, linux-kselftest

On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 04:02:46PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> Here is a tiny new syscall, readfile, that makes it simpler to read
> small/medium sized files all in one shot, no need to do open/read/close.
> This is especially helpful for tools that poke around in procfs or
> sysfs, making a little bit of a less system load than before, especially
> as syscall overheads go up over time due to various CPU bugs being
> addressed.

Nice series, but you are 3 months late with it...  Next AFD, perhaps?

Seriously, the rationale is bollocks.  If the overhead of 2 extra
syscalls is anywhere near the costs of the real work being done by
that thing, we have already lost and the best thing to do is to
throw the system away and start with saner hardware.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster
@ 2020-07-04 14:02 Greg Kroah-Hartman
  2020-07-04 19:30 ` Al Viro
  2020-07-06 17:25 ` Dave Martin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Greg Kroah-Hartman @ 2020-07-04 14:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: viro, mtk.manpages, shuah, linux-api
  Cc: linux-fsdevel, linux-kernel, linux-man, linux-kselftest,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman

Here is a tiny new syscall, readfile, that makes it simpler to read
small/medium sized files all in one shot, no need to do open/read/close.
This is especially helpful for tools that poke around in procfs or
sysfs, making a little bit of a less system load than before, especially
as syscall overheads go up over time due to various CPU bugs being
addressed.

There are 4 patches in this series, the first 3 are against the kernel
tree, adding the syscall logic, wiring up the syscall, and adding some
tests for it.

The last patch is agains the man-pages project, adding a tiny man page
to try to describe the new syscall.

Greg Kroah-Hartman (3):
  readfile: implement readfile syscall
  arch: wire up the readfile syscall
  selftests: add readfile(2) selftests

 arch/alpha/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl        |   1 +
 arch/arm/tools/syscall.tbl                    |   1 +
 arch/arm64/include/asm/unistd.h               |   2 +-
 arch/arm64/include/asm/unistd32.h             |   2 +
 arch/ia64/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl         |   1 +
 arch/m68k/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl         |   1 +
 arch/microblaze/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl   |   1 +
 arch/mips/kernel/syscalls/syscall_n32.tbl     |   1 +
 arch/mips/kernel/syscalls/syscall_n64.tbl     |   1 +
 arch/mips/kernel/syscalls/syscall_o32.tbl     |   1 +
 arch/parisc/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl       |   1 +
 arch/powerpc/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl      |   1 +
 arch/s390/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl         |   1 +
 arch/sh/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl           |   1 +
 arch/sparc/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl        |   1 +
 arch/x86/entry/syscalls/syscall_32.tbl        |   1 +
 arch/x86/entry/syscalls/syscall_64.tbl        |   1 +
 arch/xtensa/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl       |   1 +
 fs/open.c                                     |  50 +++
 include/linux/syscalls.h                      |   2 +
 include/uapi/asm-generic/unistd.h             |   4 +-
 tools/testing/selftests/Makefile              |   1 +
 tools/testing/selftests/readfile/.gitignore   |   3 +
 tools/testing/selftests/readfile/Makefile     |   7 +
 tools/testing/selftests/readfile/readfile.c   | 285 +++++++++++++++++
 .../selftests/readfile/readfile_speed.c       | 301 ++++++++++++++++++
 26 files changed, 671 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 tools/testing/selftests/readfile/.gitignore
 create mode 100644 tools/testing/selftests/readfile/Makefile
 create mode 100644 tools/testing/selftests/readfile/readfile.c
 create mode 100644 tools/testing/selftests/readfile/readfile_speed.c

-- 
2.27.0


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 31+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-07-05  2:06 [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster Jan Ziak
2020-07-05  2:16 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-05  2:46   ` Jan Ziak
2020-07-05  3:12     ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-05  3:18       ` Jan Ziak
2020-07-05  3:27         ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-05  4:09           ` Jan Ziak
2020-07-05 11:58             ` Greg KH
2020-07-06  6:07               ` Jan Ziak
2020-07-06 11:11                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 11:18                 ` Greg KH
2020-07-05  8:07           ` Vito Caputo
2020-07-05 11:44             ` Greg KH
2020-07-05 20:34               ` Vito Caputo
2020-07-05  6:32     ` Andreas Dilger
2020-07-05  7:25       ` Jan Ziak
2020-07-05 12:00         ` Greg KH
2020-07-05 11:50 ` Greg KH
2020-07-14  6:51   ` Pavel Machek
2020-07-14  8:07     ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-14 11:34       ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-14 11:55         ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-15  8:31           ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-15  8:41             ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-15  8:49               ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-15  9:00                 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-15 11:17                   ` Miklos Szeredi
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-07-04 14:02 Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-04 19:30 ` Al Viro
2020-07-05 11:47   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-06 17:25 ` Dave Martin

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