Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[willy tarreau]

Dick, have you tried a simple "strace -f -p <pid>" ?
This often gives enough info.

BTW, there's one version of sendmail that tests the
capability security hole of a previous kernel version
(2.2.15 ?), and refuses to launch if it discovers it.
It may be possible that sendmail does other tests like
this one.

Regards,
Willy


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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Igmar Palsenberg]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, [iso-8859-1] willy tarreau wrote:

> Dick, have you tried a simple "strace -f -p <pid>" ?
> This often gives enough info.
> 
> BTW, there's one version of sendmail that tests the
> capability security hole of a previous kernel version
> (2.2.15 ?), and refuses to launch if it discovers it.
> It may be possible that sendmail does other tests like
> this one.

All recent version of sendmail check the kernel if it has the famous 'I
don't drop my root privs entirely' bug. This bug isn't the issue, sendmail
complains loudly when it finds a kernel with that bug, and won't even
start.

I'm testing with a 50 MB file now.. See how it goes :)

> Regards,
> Willy


	Igmar

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[David Ford]

I have found that lowering the MTU helps a lot.  If it is a particular route,
simply add an additional route with the lower limit set.  The tradeoff of
efficiency v.s. reliability is improved.

-d

Horst von Brand wrote:

> In my experience, if you try to send large messages over unreliable
> networks (we sometimes see 50 or more % losses due to chronical link

-- ---NOTICE

-- fwd: fwd: fwd: type emails will be deleted automatically.
      "There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are
      virtue and talents", Thomas Jefferson [1742-1826], 3rd US President



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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Horst von Brand]

"Richard B. Johnson" <root@chaos.analogic.com> said:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:

[...]

> > Ok. So please now show a tcpdump trace during the `sendmail -q` so we
> > can see what's going wrong in the TCP connection to the smtp server:
> >
> > 	tcpdump port smtp

> I tried to send Jeff a 45 Megabyte file. It is still in the queue.

[...]

> It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> why the file never gets sent!

In my experience, if you try to send large messages over unreliable
networks (we sometimes see 50 or more % losses due to chronical link
overload downstream) the connection breaks up and the messages take a long
time to get out of the door. No, not just Linux; our SunOS/Solaris/Linux
mail servers have all shown the same behaviour. Makes sense: Unless the
message is sent and ACKed, it stays put. SMTP has no "resume message" AFAIK...
This could also be an explanation for this phenomemnon.
--
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Casilla 9G, Vin~a del Mar, Chile                               +56 32 672616
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 01:24:18PM +0000, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> jmerkey@timpanogas.org (Jeff V. Merkey) writes:
> 
> >I did Dick.  The config is fine.  The daemon is also fine and running. 
> >What's really weird is that even if I do a "sendmail -v -q" command
> >(which should force the queue to flush) it still doesn't. 
> 
> O Timeout.ident=0s
> O Timeout.initial=30s (these are the ninieties / 21st century)
> 
> Get someone that really has an idea about sendmail. 
> 
> 	Regards
> 		Henning

Ha ha.  It's fixed.

Jeff

> -- 
> Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
> INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de
> 
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Henning P. Schmiedehausen]

dominik.kubla@uni-mainz.de (Dominik Kubla) writes:

>I can do better! I had a smart ass trying to backup his harddrives
>using email, no less than 2Gig!

So what? Get enough spool space in /var/spool/mqueue and a platform
with 64 bit file support and it works just fine. I have some boxes
where the users send 100+ MByte mails on a regular base. Once you beat
the procmail into submission, this simply works.

sendmail is one of the very best pieces of free multi-platform
software that is available. I really admire the people that wrote
it. Kudos to everyone that wrote on this software. All hail Eric
Allman. ;-)

It is mean, tough, hard to understand and configure but definitely
industrial strength, proven and reliable. Something you can't say of
all this sissy "free" software around today.

And once you get a hang of "left side, right side" rules, you can read
sendmail.cf like normal text. The idea of using an algorithmic concept
for a config file still shines after twenty years of development. So
much for "GUIs".

	sendmail rocks
		Henning
-- 
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Henning P. Schmiedehausen]

sendmail+ca@sendmail.org (Claus Assmann) writes:

>> Sending a 50 MB file is OK here. So it's not a TCP/IP bug. 

>Ok, hopefully this reaches everyone who has been "involved"
>by Jeff into this "problem".

So it is _once_ _again_ a Jeff "I have no clue but I know Linux-Kernel
list is cheaper than tech support or a real admin, but my real problem
sits on the chair in front of the display" Merkey problem.

This makes me puke. Again and again.

	Regards
		Henning

-- 
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INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Henning P. Schmiedehausen]

jmerkey@timpanogas.org (Jeff V. Merkey) writes:

>I did Dick.  The config is fine.  The daemon is also fine and running. 
>What's really weird is that even if I do a "sendmail -v -q" command
>(which should force the queue to flush) it still doesn't. 

O Timeout.ident=0s
O Timeout.initial=30s (these are the ninieties / 21st century)

Get someone that really has an idea about sendmail. 

	Regards
		Henning
-- 
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Henning P. Schmiedehausen]

jmerkey@timpanogas.org (Jeff V. Merkey) writes:

>The sendmail folks are claiming that the TCPIP stack in Linux is broken,
>which is what they claim is causing problems on sendmail on Linux
>platforms.  Before anyone says, "don't use that piece of shit sendmail,
>use qmail instead", perhaps we should look at this problem and refute
>these statements -- I think that sendmail is causing this problem.  The
>version is sendmail 8.9.3

>I can reproduce this bug on RH6.2, RH7.0, Caldera 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4,
>Suse 6.X versions, and any of these distributions with the following
>kernels.   

>2.2.14, 2.2.16, 2.2.17, 2.2.18, 2.4.0 (all).  What happens is that
>sendmail fails to forward mails with any attachments larger than 400K,
>and they just sit in the /var/spool/mqueue directory for up to a week,
>and eventually get delivered.

Jeff,

I run about three dozen sendmail server boxes (8.9.3 to 8.11.1) on all
these platforms and each one of these boxes transfer 1,000,000+ Mails
per week (yes, this is one million).

There is _no_ _such_ _bug_. Maybe you get bitten by some bogus traffic
shapers (you did read the report from Wietse, didn't you). If there
would be such a bug, I believe, that any of the 10,000+ Customers
would start complaining.

But there is no problem with mails in any size and sendmail on Linux.

And I'm pretty much annoyed that you try to use this list not as a
kernel but a general linux-support list, because you drag every single
problem that may be far out related to a kernel, because it runs on a
kernel into this list.

Pay some $$$ for professional tech support. And use this list as a
kernel development list. Not some "I have no idea but I am a Netware
buff that has some money, so you have to listen to me or I will strike
you with my anger" rant list.

	End of discussion
		Henning
-- 
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INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Dominik Kubla]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 01:46:39PM -0600, Tim Walberg wrote:
...
> Wow... that just might be one that's due for immortalizing
> as an urban legend or what not... Definitely stupid user trick
> material...

I can do better! I had a smart ass trying to backup his harddrives
using email, no less than 2Gig!

Dominik
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 06:02:28PM -0800, David Ford wrote:
> >  > With a handle like
> >  > "Assmann", deviation is proably something you already understand quite
> >  > well ...
> >
> > Don't be a moron.  Claus is German, Assman really is his last name and
> > not some "handle", and it's pronounced "Oss-man".
> 
> Claus is a well liked, knowledgable and well experienced person in numerous
> domains.  Please don't stoop to such silly games with people's proper name.

Sounded like a handle of some kind, like Santa Claus or something.  I had no 
idea.  I speak some native american, and I'm certain if I used "Oi-ach 
Ch'ei e'ho" as a a email handle, many folks would be confused, when what I 
was trying to say is my proper (non-english) name.

Jeff


> 
> -d
> 
> --
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an
> eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was
> 'committed'."
> 
> 

Content-Description: Card for David Ford

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 05:15:53PM -0800, Steve VanDevender wrote:
> Jeff V. Merkey writes:
>  > There was also an issue relative to how sendmail is interpreting load
>  > average on a linux box.  hpa@transmeta.com pointed out that perhaps you
>  > are not factoring sleeping processes, which Linux does -- a deviation
>  > from BSD's interpretation of load average.
> 
> At worst it's an issue with how Linux presents load average, not with
> how sendmail interprets it -- sendmail believes what the kernel tells
> it.  And from the sound of it, it's not even Linux's fault -- your box
> has a high load average because it's got a lot of runnable processes.
> 
>  > With a handle like
>  > "Assmann", deviation is proably something you already understand quite
>  > well ...
> 
> Don't be a moron.  Claus is German, Assman really is his last name and
> not some "handle", and it's pronounced "Oss-man".
> 
> I'm sure we could make plenty of stupid puns with "Merkey" too.

I had no idea, I was making a joke.  It looked like a handle, I apologize 
for being culturally ignorant of being able to distinguishing it.  

8)

jeff

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[David Ford]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 549 bytes --]

>  > With a handle like
>  > "Assmann", deviation is proably something you already understand quite
>  > well ...
>
> Don't be a moron.  Claus is German, Assman really is his last name and
> not some "handle", and it's pronounced "Oss-man".

Claus is a well liked, knowledgable and well experienced person in numerous
domains.  Please don't stoop to such silly games with people's proper name.

-d

--
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an
eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was
'committed'."



[-- Attachment #2: Card for David Ford --]
[-- Type: text/x-vcard, Size: 176 bytes --]

begin:vcard 
n:Ford;David
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:david@kalifornia.com
title:Blue Labs Developer
x-mozilla-cpt:;14688
fn:David Ford
end:vcard

Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Steve VanDevender]

Jeff V. Merkey writes:
 > There was also an issue relative to how sendmail is interpreting load
 > average on a linux box.  hpa@transmeta.com pointed out that perhaps you
 > are not factoring sleeping processes, which Linux does -- a deviation
 > from BSD's interpretation of load average.

At worst it's an issue with how Linux presents load average, not with
how sendmail interprets it -- sendmail believes what the kernel tells
it.  And from the sound of it, it's not even Linux's fault -- your box
has a high load average because it's got a lot of runnable processes.

 > With a handle like
 > "Assmann", deviation is proably something you already understand quite
 > well ...

Don't be a moron.  Claus is German, Assman really is his last name and
not some "handle", and it's pronounced "Oss-man".

I'm sure we could make plenty of stupid puns with "Merkey" too.
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> > > Turn on encryption, and try sending attachements > 1MB and tell me if
> > > you see any problems, like emails sitting in /var/spool/mqueue for a day
> > > or two until they go out.  I can guarantee you will.
> > 
> > Are you talking client -> MTA encryption, or MTA -> MTA encryption ??
> 
> slow or blocked connection problems with all configs listed above.

Ah. I'll go kick this sendmail setup, and see what it does..


> Jeff


	Igmar

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> > It ran out of memory. The file got sent fine after I got rid of
> > all the memory-consumers. Looks like a sendmail bug where they
> > expect to load a whole file into memory all at once before sending
> > it. I always thought you could read from a file, then write to
> > a socket. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

Sending a 50 MB file is OK here. So it's not a TCP/IP bug. 

> Claus,
> 
> Looks like your bug.  As an FYI, sendmail.rpms in Suse, RedHat, and
> OpenLinux all exhibit this behavior, which means they're all broken. 
> Reading an entire file into memory must be a BSD feature.  I have
> enabled an SSH account for you, so you can come in and debug.  Richard
> also can get in and will be helping.
> 
> Jeff



	Igmar

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> Turn on encryption, and try sending attachements > 1MB and tell me if
> you see any problems, like emails sitting in /var/spool/mqueue for a day
> or two until they go out.  I can guarantee you will.

Are you talking client -> MTA encryption, or MTA -> MTA encryption ??
 
> Jeff


	Igmar

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> > Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
> > encryption.
> 
> I've been using sendmail-8.11.1 (no encryption) to talk to MTAs all over
> the place, many of them so old it is scary. No problems seen at this end.
> This is to be expected, BTW: They can't just go in and release an MTA which
> doesn't talk to the rest ot the world, now can they.

The only things sendmails < 8.10.x all suffer from is the crappy mapper
code. This causes all kinds of weard problems (logging not complete,
undelivered mail), especially if an external problem mucks around with the
mapper files (those .db things for example).

I had no problems with 8.11.x not talking to qmail or any other MTA.



	Igmar

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Igmar Palsenberg]

> > What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?
> 
> Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
> encryption.

Depends on how you configure it. An enabled encryption doesn't always mean
it has problems taking to other sendmails. This sendmail here has no
problems forwarding a mail > 400 Kb (I used 1.2 MB).

This is 8.11.1 with the MySQL mapper patch.

> > > ANyone have any ideas if what the sendmail people are saying is on the
> > > level, or is this just another sendmail bug.

I can't reproduce on 8.11.1

Maybe I can if someones tells me the exact procedure to reproduce it.

> > >
> > > Jeff
> > 
> > wfms


	Igmar

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Claus Assmann wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2000, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:
> >
> > > > It ran out of memory. The file got sent fine after I got rid of
> > > > all the memory-consumers. Looks like a sendmail bug where they
> > > > expect to load a whole file into memory all at once before sending
> > > > it. I always thought you could read from a file, then write to
> 
> As I wrote before: this is just wrong. sendmail doesn't
> load the file into memory.
> 
> > > > a socket. Maybe I'm old fashioned.
> >
> > Sending a 50 MB file is OK here. So it's not a TCP/IP bug.
> 
> Ok, hopefully this reaches everyone who has been "involved"
> by Jeff into this "problem".
> 
> It turned out that this was just a misconfiguration on his box
> (the load average exceeded the limit of his sendmail).
> 
> Can we please close this case now? Thanks.

There was also an issue relative to how sendmail is interpreting load
average on a linux box.  hpa@transmeta.com pointed out that perhaps you
are not factoring sleeping processes, which Linux does -- a deviation
from BSD's interpretation of load average.  With a handle like
"Assmann", deviation is proably something you already understand quite
well ...

8)

Jeff
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Claus Assmann]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2000, Igmar Palsenberg wrote:
> 
> > > It ran out of memory. The file got sent fine after I got rid of
> > > all the memory-consumers. Looks like a sendmail bug where they
> > > expect to load a whole file into memory all at once before sending
> > > it. I always thought you could read from a file, then write to

As I wrote before: this is just wrong. sendmail doesn't
load the file into memory.

> > > a socket. Maybe I'm old fashioned.
> 
> Sending a 50 MB file is OK here. So it's not a TCP/IP bug. 

Ok, hopefully this reaches everyone who has been "involved"
by Jeff into this "problem".

It turned out that this was just a misconfiguration on his box
(the load average exceeded the limit of his sendmail).

Can we please close this case now? Thanks.
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Igmar Palsenberg wrote:
> 
> > Turn on encryption, and try sending attachements > 1MB and tell me if
> > you see any problems, like emails sitting in /var/spool/mqueue for a day
> > or two until they go out.  I can guarantee you will.
> 
> Are you talking client -> MTA encryption, or MTA -> MTA encryption ??

slow or blocked connection problems with all configs listed above.

Jeff

> 
> > Jeff
> 
>         Igmar
> 
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Davide Libenzi]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Claus Assmann wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> > Looks like your bug.  As an FYI, sendmail.rpms in Suse, RedHat, and
> > OpenLinux all exhibit this behavior, which means they're all broken. 
> 
> Sorry, this is plain wrong. sendmail does NOT read the entire
> file into memory.

Does sendmail use sendfile() ?


- Davide
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[H. Peter Anvin]

Followup to:  <00111023290401.00203@linux1.home.bogus>
By author:    Davide Libenzi <davidel@xmail.virusscreen.com>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
>
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Claus Assmann wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> > > Looks like your bug.  As an FYI, sendmail.rpms in Suse, RedHat, and
> > > OpenLinux all exhibit this behavior, which means they're all broken. 
> > 
> > Sorry, this is plain wrong. sendmail does NOT read the entire
> > file into memory.
> 
> Does sendmail use sendfile() ?
> 

Or mmap()/write()?

	-hpa
-- 
<hpa@transmeta.com> at work, <hpa@zytor.com> in private!
"Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot."
http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Claus Assmann]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000, Davide Libenzi wrote:

[Please use a MTA that sends the e-mail only once to a given machine,
we got three copies of this]

> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Claus Assmann wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> > > Looks like your bug.  As an FYI, sendmail.rpms in Suse, RedHat, and
> > > OpenLinux all exhibit this behavior, which means they're all broken. 
> > 
> > Sorry, this is plain wrong. sendmail does NOT read the entire
> > file into memory.
> 
> Does sendmail use sendfile() ?

No. Just do a grep on the source code.

I suspect that procmail is used which actually used to load
the entire mail into memory.
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

"William F. Maton" wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> 
> > Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 03:07:46PM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> > > > It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> > > > sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> > > > why the file never gets sent!
> > >
> > > Sure that could be the case. You should be able to verify the kernel kills the
> > > task with `dmesg`.
> > >
> > > However Jeff said the problem happens over 400K and a 500K attachment shouldn't
> > > really run any machine out of memory, so maybe this wasn't his same problem?
> >
> > I think it is.  So it looks like sendmail is bombing when it attempts to
> > send large files.
> 
> Not to use the 'S-word', but we're receiving/sending biggish attachments
> (7MB-9MB) under Solaris 2.6.  Could sendmail be triggering a linux bug, or
> could something specific to linux be triggering a sendmail bug?

Richard has determined that it's a low memory problem on Linux with
sendmail.  Perhaps it affects Solaris as well, try it in low memory with
a big file.

Jeff


> 
> > Jeff
> 
> wfms
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[William F. Maton]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 03:07:46PM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> > > It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> > > sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> > > why the file never gets sent!
> > 
> > Sure that could be the case. You should be able to verify the kernel kills the
> > task with `dmesg`.
> > 
> > However Jeff said the problem happens over 400K and a 500K attachment shouldn't
> > really run any machine out of memory, so maybe this wasn't his same problem?
> 
> I think it is.  So it looks like sendmail is bombing when it attempts to
> send large files. 

Not to use the 'S-word', but we're receiving/sending biggish attachments
(7MB-9MB) under Solaris 2.6.  Could sendmail be triggering a linux bug, or
could something specific to linux be triggering a sendmail bug?

> Jeff 

wfms

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Claus Assmann]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> "Richard B. Johnson" wrote:

> > It ran out of memory. The file got sent fine after I got rid of
> > all the memory-consumers. Looks like a sendmail bug where they
> > expect to load a whole file into memory all at once before sending
> > it. I always thought you could read from a file, then write to

On which evidence do you base this idea?

> > a socket. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

Yeah, just like us.

Please provide some proof to your claims.


> Looks like your bug.  As an FYI, sendmail.rpms in Suse, RedHat, and
> OpenLinux all exhibit this behavior, which means they're all broken. 

Sorry, this is plain wrong. sendmail does NOT read the entire
file into memory.

> Reading an entire file into memory must be a BSD feature.  I have
> enabled an SSH account for you, so you can come in and debug.  Richard
> also can get in and will be helping.

What's the machine name and what's the account?

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

"Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
> 
>
> 
> It ran out of memory. The file got sent fine after I got rid of
> all the memory-consumers. Looks like a sendmail bug where they
> expect to load a whole file into memory all at once before sending
> it. I always thought you could read from a file, then write to
> a socket. Maybe I'm old fashioned.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dick Johnson
>

Claus,

Looks like your bug.  As an FYI, sendmail.rpms in Suse, RedHat, and
OpenLinux all exhibit this behavior, which means they're all broken. 
Reading an entire file into memory must be a BSD feature.  I have
enabled an SSH account for you, so you can come in and debug.  Richard
also can get in and will be helping.

Jeff
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 03:07:46PM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> > It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> > sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> > why the file never gets sent!
> 
> Sure that could be the case. You should be able to verify the kernel kills the
> task with `dmesg`.
> 
> However Jeff said the problem happens over 400K and a 500K attachment shouldn't
> really run any machine out of memory, so maybe this wasn't his same problem?
> 
> Andrea
> 

It ran out of memory. The file got sent fine after I got rid of
all the memory-consumers. Looks like a sendmail bug where they
expect to load a whole file into memory all at once before sending
it. I always thought you could read from a file, then write to
a socket. Maybe I'm old fashioned.


Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.4.0 on an i686 machine (799.54 BogoMips).

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.


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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> 
> 
> Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 03:07:46PM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> > > It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> > > sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> > > why the file never gets sent!
> > 
> > Sure that could be the case. You should be able to verify the kernel kills the
> > task with `dmesg`.
> > 
> > However Jeff said the problem happens over 400K and a 500K attachment shouldn't
> > really run any machine out of memory, so maybe this wasn't his same problem?
> 
> I think it is.  So it looks like sendmail is bombing when it attempts to
> send large files. 
> 
> Jeff 
> 

Yes. I was finally able to send Jeff a very large file. I had
to get rid of all the other memory consumers on this system.

Once it had enough memory, it got sent.


Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.4.0 on an i686 machine (799.54 BogoMips).

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.


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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Andre,

SSH is running on this system, so send me your IP address to add to the
hosts.allow file and I'll send you an account so you can get into the
box and see just what's happening with ssh.  Andre Hedrick has root
privileges on this machine, so if I'm ever not around, he can get into
it.  I am running 2.2.18pre19 on i right now, and was going to upgrade
to 2.2.18-pre20 this evening, but let's look into this first since Alan
may have another patch to post ....
8)

Jeff



"Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:34:40PM -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> > >
> > > Andrea,
> > >
> > > All done.  It's already setup this way.
> >
> > Ok. So please now show a tcpdump trace during the `sendmail -q` so we can see
> > what's going wrong in the TCP connection to the smtp server:
> >
> >       tcpdump port smtp
> >
> > Andrea
> 
> I tried to send Jeff a 45 Megabyte file. It is still in the queue.
> 
>  FLAGS   UID   PID  PPID PRI  NI   SIZE   RSS WCHAN       STA TTY TIME COMMAND
> [SNIPPED...]
> 
>    140     0    82     1   9   0    840   100 do_select   S   ?
>    0:00 /usr/sbin/rpc.pcnfsd /var/spool/lpd
>    140     0    86     1   8   0   1744   364 do_select   S   ?
>    0:00 sendmail: accepting connections
>     40     0  5742     1  16   0   1812   136 wait_for_tc S   ?   0:01
> sendmail: ./eAAJm8V05731 vger.timpanogas.org.: client DATA 354
> 
> It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> why the file never gets sent!
> 
> This is how /proc/meminfo looks right after it crashes. There has
> been a lot of swapping going on.
> 
>         total:    used:    free:  shared: buffers:  cached:
> Mem:  328114176 38932480 289181696        0  2293760 27115520
> Swap: 139821056 10014720 129806336
> MemTotal:       320424 kB
> MemFree:        282404 kB
> MemShared:           0 kB
> Buffers:          2240 kB
> Cached:          26484 kB
> Active:           5576 kB
> Inact_dirty:     18348 kB
> Inact_clean:      4800 kB
> Inact_target:      332 kB
> HighTotal:           0 kB
> HighFree:            0 kB
> LowTotal:       320424 kB
> LowFree:        282400 kB
> SwapTotal:      136544 kB
> SwapFree:       126764 kB
> 
> Cheers,
> Dick Johnson
> 
> Penguin : Linux version 2.4.0 on an i686 machine (799.54 BogoMips).
> 
> "Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
> course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
> obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.
> 
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> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 03:07:46PM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> > It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> > sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> > why the file never gets sent!
> 
> Sure that could be the case. You should be able to verify the kernel kills the
> task with `dmesg`.
> 
> However Jeff said the problem happens over 400K and a 500K attachment shouldn't
> really run any machine out of memory, so maybe this wasn't his same problem?

I think it is.  So it looks like sendmail is bombing when it attempts to
send large files. 

Jeff 

> 
> Andrea
> -
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Andrea Arcangeli]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 03:07:46PM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
> sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
> why the file never gets sent!

Sure that could be the case. You should be able to verify the kernel kills the
task with `dmesg`.

However Jeff said the problem happens over 400K and a 500K attachment shouldn't
really run any machine out of memory, so maybe this wasn't his same problem?

Andrea
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:34:40PM -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> > 
> > Andrea,
> > 
> > All done.  It's already setup this way.
> 
> Ok. So please now show a tcpdump trace during the `sendmail -q` so we can see
> what's going wrong in the TCP connection to the smtp server:
> 
> 	tcpdump port smtp
> 
> Andrea

I tried to send Jeff a 45 Megabyte file. It is still in the queue.


 FLAGS   UID   PID  PPID PRI  NI   SIZE   RSS WCHAN       STA TTY TIME COMMAND
[SNIPPED...]


   140     0    82     1   9   0    840   100 do_select   S   ?
   0:00 /usr/sbin/rpc.pcnfsd /var/spool/lpd 
   140     0    86     1   8   0   1744   364 do_select   S   ?
   0:00 sendmail: accepting connections 
    40     0  5742     1  16   0   1812   136 wait_for_tc S   ?   0:01
sendmail: ./eAAJm8V05731 vger.timpanogas.org.: client DATA 354 

It isn't a TCP/IP stack problem. It may be a memory problem. Every time
sendmail spawns a child to send the file data, it crashes.  That's
why the file never gets sent!

This is how /proc/meminfo looks right after it crashes. There has
been a lot of swapping going on.

        total:    used:    free:  shared: buffers:  cached:
Mem:  328114176 38932480 289181696        0  2293760 27115520
Swap: 139821056 10014720 129806336
MemTotal:       320424 kB
MemFree:        282404 kB
MemShared:           0 kB
Buffers:          2240 kB
Cached:          26484 kB
Active:           5576 kB
Inact_dirty:     18348 kB
Inact_clean:      4800 kB
Inact_target:      332 kB
HighTotal:           0 kB
HighFree:            0 kB
LowTotal:       320424 kB
LowFree:        282400 kB
SwapTotal:      136544 kB
SwapFree:       126764 kB


Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.4.0 on an i686 machine (799.54 BogoMips).

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.


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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Andrea Arcangeli]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:34:40PM -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> 
> Andrea,
> 
> All done.  It's already setup this way.

Ok. So please now show a tcpdump trace during the `sendmail -q` so we can see
what's going wrong in the TCP connection to the smtp server:

	tcpdump port smtp

Andrea
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Tim Walberg]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1036 bytes --]

On 11/10/2000 16:30 -0300, Horst von Brand wrote:
>>	"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@timpanogas.org> said:
>>	> Horst von Brand wrote:
>>	
>>	[...]
>>	
>>	> > I've been using sendmail-8.11.1 (no encryption) to talk to MTAs all over
>>	
>>	> Turn on encryption, and try sending attachements > 1MB and tell me if
>>	> you see any problems, like emails sitting in /var/spool/mqueue for a day
>>	> or two until they go out.  I can guarantee you will.
>>	
>>	No encryption use; and the maximal message size is 1Mb (for sanity's sake,
>>	after somebody sent a PowerPoint presentation (some 3Mb), then thought that
>>	perhaps the target didn't have PowerPoint, and sent it again with the
>>	PowerPoint package, then noticed this might not work either, and sent it
>>	_again_ with the full MS Office attached...  the joys of sysadminning ;-)
>>	-- 

Wow... that just might be one that's due for immortalizing
as an urban legend or what not... Definitely stupid user trick
material...


			tw


-- 
tewalberg@mediaone.net

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 175 bytes --]

Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Andrea Arcangeli]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:45:39AM -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> > > > > [..]  Issuing the command "sendmail -v
> > > > > -q" does not flush the mail queue. [..]

So first thing to do is to check that in /etc/sendmail.cf this line is
commented out this way:

#O HostStatusDirectory=...

(if you build .cf via m4 add this line:

undefine(`confHOST_STATUS_DIRECTORY')dnl

and rebuild the .cf from the m4 source)

Then `rcsendmail reload; sendmail -q; mailq`.

Andrea
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Andrea,

All done.  It's already setup this way.

Jeff

Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:45:39AM -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> > > > > > [..]  Issuing the command "sendmail -v
> > > > > > -q" does not flush the mail queue. [..]
> 
> So first thing to do is to check that in /etc/sendmail.cf this line is
> commented out this way:
> 
> #O HostStatusDirectory=...
> 
> (if you build .cf via m4 add this line:
> 
> undefine(`confHOST_STATUS_DIRECTORY')dnl
> 
> and rebuild the .cf from the m4 source)
> 
> Then `rcsendmail reload; sendmail -q; mailq`.
> 
> Andrea
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, William F. Maton wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> 
> > 
> > The sendmail folks are claiming that the TCPIP stack in Linux is broken,
> > which is what they claim is causing problems on sendmail on Linux
> > platforms.  Before anyone says, "don't use that piece of shit sendmail,
> > use qmail instead", perhaps we should look at this problem and refute
> > these statements -- I think that sendmail is causing this problem.  The
> > version is sendmail 8.9.3
> 
> What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?
> 

I am running sendmail-8.11-0.Beta3 on Linux 2.4.0-test9. I didn't
have any problem with it (except that the documentation sucks,
making it extremely difficult to configure). Once configured, it runs
fine. It also ran fine on Linux-2.2.17.

If something is staying in the mail-queue `mailq`, this means that
the daemon isn't running. It may have crashed. This can be caused
by somebody keeping some mailer entry in /etc/inetd.conf. Sendmail
has to run as a daemon with no other interference on port 25.
Check the configuration.


Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.4.0 on an i686 machine (799.54 BogoMips).

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.


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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

"Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, William F. Maton wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The sendmail folks are claiming that the TCPIP stack in Linux is broken,
> > > which is what they claim is causing problems on sendmail on Linux
> > > platforms.  Before anyone says, "don't use that piece of shit sendmail,
> > > use qmail instead", perhaps we should look at this problem and refute
> > > these statements -- I think that sendmail is causing this problem.  The
> > > version is sendmail 8.9.3
> >
> > What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?
> >
> 
> I am running sendmail-8.11-0.Beta3 on Linux 2.4.0-test9. I didn't
> have any problem with it (except that the documentation sucks,
> making it extremely difficult to configure). Once configured, it runs
> fine. It also ran fine on Linux-2.2.17.
> 
> If something is staying in the mail-queue `mailq`, this means that
> the daemon isn't running. It may have crashed. This can be caused
> by somebody keeping some mailer entry in /etc/inetd.conf. Sendmail
> has to run as a daemon with no other interference on port 25.
> Check the configuration.

I did Dick.  The config is fine.  The daemon is also fine and running. 
What's really weird is that even if I do a "sendmail -v -q" command
(which should force the queue to flush) it still doesn't. 

Jeff

> 
> Cheers,
> Dick Johnson
> 
> Penguin : Linux version 2.4.0 on an i686 machine (799.54 BogoMips).
> 
> "Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
> course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
> obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Horst von Brand]

"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@timpanogas.org> said:
> Horst von Brand wrote:

[...]

> > I've been using sendmail-8.11.1 (no encryption) to talk to MTAs all over

> Turn on encryption, and try sending attachements > 1MB and tell me if
> you see any problems, like emails sitting in /var/spool/mqueue for a day
> or two until they go out.  I can guarantee you will.

No encryption use; and the maximal message size is 1Mb (for sanity's sake,
after somebody sent a PowerPoint presentation (some 3Mb), then thought that
perhaps the target didn't have PowerPoint, and sent it again with the
PowerPoint package, then noticed this might not work either, and sent it
_again_ with the full MS Office attached...  the joys of sysadminning ;-)
-- 
Dr. Horst H. von Brand                       mailto:vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl
Departamento de Informatica                     Fono: +56 32 654431
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria              +56 32 654239
Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile                Fax:  +56 32 797513
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Claus is sloging into the box and we will be trying to track this down. 
If it is a problem in the Linux TCPIP stack, we'll post a report later
this afternoon as to where it looks like the problem is.  

Jeff

"Jeff V. Merkey" wrote:
> 
> Since I posted this on LKML, Claus over at sendmail.org seems more
> motivated to track it down.  (since it might appear on the front page of
> Linux today).  I would love your assistance Richard.
> It could be a local problem since smrsh also seems to be f_cked up as
> well, but I am seeing the same thing with an out of the box RH6.2.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> Richard A Nelson wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> >
> > > 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails and qmail.  I've seen
> > > even worse problems on 8.11.1, and backreved it immediately, and the
> > > encryption stuff has a lot of build problems on Linux.
> >
> > Sounds like local build problems, possibly all the problems !
> >
> > I can assist if you want to build 8.11.1 on Linux
> > --
> > Rick Nelson
> > Life'll kill ya                         -- Warren Zevon
> > Then you'll be dead                     -- Life'll kill ya
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[William F. Maton]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Richard A Nelson wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> 
> > "William F. Maton" wrote:
> > >
> > > What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?
> >
> > Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
> > encryption.
> 
> Eh?!? TLS is an optional, negotiated protocol started *after* the two
> sendmails are communicating.

You anticipated what I was about to type :-)
 
> I've not seen any problems, save a documented case with *one* third
> party SMTP server (don't recall who it was).

No problems here either...

> 
> -- 
> Rick Nelson
> Old MacLinus had a stack/l-i-n-u-x/and on this stack he had a trace/l-i-n-u-x
> with an Oops-Oops here and an Oops-Oops there
> here an Oops, there an Oops, everywhere an Oops-Oops.
> 	-- tjimenez@site.gmu.edu, linux.dev.kernel
> 



wfms

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Since I posted this on LKML, Claus over at sendmail.org seems more
motivated to track it down.  (since it might appear on the front page of
Linux today).  I would love your assistance Richard.  
It could be a local problem since smrsh also seems to be f_cked up as
well, but I am seeing the same thing with an out of the box RH6.2.

Jeff

Richard A Nelson wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> 
> > 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails and qmail.  I've seen
> > even worse problems on 8.11.1, and backreved it immediately, and the
> > encryption stuff has a lot of build problems on Linux.
> 
> Sounds like local build problems, possibly all the problems !
> 
> I can assist if you want to build 8.11.1 on Linux
> --
> Rick Nelson
> Life'll kill ya                         -- Warren Zevon
> Then you'll be dead                     -- Life'll kill ya
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Richard A Nelson]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails and qmail.  I've seen
> even worse problems on 8.11.1, and backreved it immediately, and the
> encryption stuff has a lot of build problems on Linux.

Sounds like local build problems, possibly all the problems !

I can assist if you want to build 8.11.1 on Linux
-- 
Rick Nelson
Life'll kill ya                         -- Warren Zevon
Then you'll be dead                     -- Life'll kill ya

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Send me an email from it with an attachment > 1MB, and I will forward
back to you when (and if) It gets delivered before next week.

:-)

Jeff

Richard A Nelson wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> 
> > "William F. Maton" wrote:
> > >
> > > What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?
> >
> > Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
> > encryption.
> 
> Eh?!? TLS is an optional, negotiated protocol started *after* the two
> sendmails are communicating.
> 
> I've not seen any problems, save a documented case with *one* third
> party SMTP server (don't recall who it was).
> 
> --
> Rick Nelson
> Old MacLinus had a stack/l-i-n-u-x/and on this stack he had a trace/l-i-n-u-x
> with an Oops-Oops here and an Oops-Oops there
> here an Oops, there an Oops, everywhere an Oops-Oops.
>         -- tjimenez@site.gmu.edu, linux.dev.kernel
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Richard A Nelson]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> "William F. Maton" wrote:
> >
> > What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?
>
> Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
> encryption.

Eh?!? TLS is an optional, negotiated protocol started *after* the two
sendmails are communicating.

I've not seen any problems, save a documented case with *one* third
party SMTP server (don't recall who it was).

-- 
Rick Nelson
Old MacLinus had a stack/l-i-n-u-x/and on this stack he had a trace/l-i-n-u-x
with an Oops-Oops here and an Oops-Oops there
here an Oops, there an Oops, everywhere an Oops-Oops.
	-- tjimenez@site.gmu.edu, linux.dev.kernel

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Horst von Brand]

"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@timpanogas.org> SAID:
> "William F. Maton" wrote:

[...]

> > What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?

> Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
> encryption.

I've been using sendmail-8.11.1 (no encryption) to talk to MTAs all over
the place, many of them so old it is scary. No problems seen at this end.
This is to be expected, BTW: They can't just go in and release an MTA which
doesn't talk to the rest ot the world, now can they.
-- 
Dr. Horst H. von Brand                       mailto:vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl
Departamento de Informatica                     Fono: +56 32 654431
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria              +56 32 654239
Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile                Fax:  +56 32 797513
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Horst von Brand wrote:
> 
> "Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@timpanogas.org> SAID:
> > "William F. Maton" wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?
> 
> > Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
> > encryption.
> 
> I've been using sendmail-8.11.1 (no encryption) to talk to MTAs all over
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Turn on encryption, and try sending attachements > 1MB and tell me if
you see any problems, like emails sitting in /var/spool/mqueue for a day
or two until they go out.  I can guarantee you will.

Jeff


> the place, many of them so old it is scary. No problems seen at this end.
> This is to be expected, BTW: They can't just go in and release an MTA which
> doesn't talk to the rest ot the world, now can they.
> --
> Dr. Horst H. von Brand                       mailto:vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl
> Departamento de Informatica                     Fono: +56 32 654431
> Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria              +56 32 654239
> Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile                Fax:  +56 32 797513
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Richard A Nelson]

Any `real` reason you're still at 8.9.3?   Current is 8.11.1

If you send me a note of the type that fails, (to cowboy@debian.org),
it'll get received on both a 2.2.18-21/8.11.1 and 2.4.0-test10/8.11.2.Beta0
system.

-- 
Rick Nelson
'Mounten' wird für drei Dinge benutzt: 'Aufsitzen' auf Pferde, 'einklinken'
von Festplatten in Dateisysteme, und, nun, 'besteigen' beim Sex.
	-- Christa Keil

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

Richard A Nelson wrote:
> 
> Any `real` reason you're still at 8.9.3?   Current is 8.11.1
> 
> If you send me a note of the type that fails, (to cowboy@debian.org),
> it'll get received on both a 2.2.18-21/8.11.1 and 2.4.0-test10/8.11.2.Beta0

8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails and qmail.  I've seen
even worse problems on 8.11.1, and backreved it immediately, and the
encryption stuff has a lot of build problems on Linux. 

Jeff  


> system.
> 
> --
> Rick Nelson
> 'Mounten' wird für drei Dinge benutzt: 'Aufsitzen' auf Pferde, 'einklinken'
> von Festplatten in Dateisysteme, und, nun, 'besteigen' beim Sex.
>         -- Christa Keil
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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[William F. Maton]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> 
> The sendmail folks are claiming that the TCPIP stack in Linux is broken,
> which is what they claim is causing problems on sendmail on Linux
> platforms.  Before anyone says, "don't use that piece of shit sendmail,
> use qmail instead", perhaps we should look at this problem and refute
> these statements -- I think that sendmail is causing this problem.  The
> version is sendmail 8.9.3

What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?

> 
> I can reproduce this bug on RH6.2, RH7.0, Caldera 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4,
> Suse 6.X versions, and any of these distributions with the following
> kernels.   
> 
> 2.2.14, 2.2.16, 2.2.17, 2.2.18, 2.4.0 (all).  What happens is that
> sendmail fails to forward mails with any attachments larger than 400K,
> and they just sit in the /var/spool/mqueue directory for up to a week,
> and eventually get delivered.
> 
> ANyone have any ideas if what the sendmail people are saying is on the
> level, or is this just another sendmail bug.  
> 
> Jeff



wfms

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Re: [Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

"William F. Maton" wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> 
> >
> > The sendmail folks are claiming that the TCPIP stack in Linux is broken,
> > which is what they claim is causing problems on sendmail on Linux
> > platforms.  Before anyone says, "don't use that piece of shit sendmail,
> > use qmail instead", perhaps we should look at this problem and refute
> > these statements -- I think that sendmail is causing this problem.  The
> > version is sendmail 8.9.3
> 
> What about sendmail 8.11.1?  Is the problem there too?

Yes.  Plus 8.11.1 has problems talking to older sendmails sine it uses
encryption.
> 
> >
> > I can reproduce this bug on RH6.2, RH7.0, Caldera 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4,
> > Suse 6.X versions, and any of these distributions with the following
> > kernels.
> >
> > 2.2.14, 2.2.16, 2.2.17, 2.2.18, 2.4.0 (all).  What happens is that
> > sendmail fails to forward mails with any attachments larger than 400K,
> > and they just sit in the /var/spool/mqueue directory for up to a week,
> > and eventually get delivered.
> >
> > ANyone have any ideas if what the sendmail people are saying is on the
> > level, or is this just another sendmail bug.
> >
> > Jeff
> 
> wfms
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[Fwd: sendmail fails to deliver mail with attachments in /var/spool/mqueue]

[Jeff V. Merkey]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 895 bytes --]


The sendmail folks are claiming that the TCPIP stack in Linux is broken,
which is what they claim is causing problems on sendmail on Linux
platforms.  Before anyone says, "don't use that piece of shit sendmail,
use qmail instead", perhaps we should look at this problem and refute
these statements -- I think that sendmail is causing this problem.  The
version is sendmail 8.9.3

I can reproduce this bug on RH6.2, RH7.0, Caldera 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4,
Suse 6.X versions, and any of these distributions with the following
kernels.   

2.2.14, 2.2.16, 2.2.17, 2.2.18, 2.4.0 (all).  What happens is that
sendmail fails to forward mails with any attachments larger than 400K,
and they just sit in the /var/spool/mqueue directory for up to a week,
and eventually get delivered.

ANyone have any ideas if what the sendmail people are saying is on the
level, or is this just another sendmail bug.  

Jeff

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 7515 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1538 bytes --]

Claus,

Here's the output from mailq -v and ps -ax.  As you can see, sendmail is
seriously malfunctining.  I have seen this same bug accross three
platforms with a wide variety 
of linux kernels from 2.2.14 to 2.2.18 to 2.4.0-10.  This is your bug,
and noone else's.

How do we get it fixed or is it possibly a configuration error.

Jeff

Claus Assmann wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> >
> >
> > Claus Assmann wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000, root wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am seeimg sendmail 8.9.3 fail to deliver emails in /var/spool/mqueue
> > > > with attachements for up to a week.  Issuing the command "sendmail -v
> > > > -q" does not flush the mail queue.
> > >
> > > Is the queue item locked? What happens when you try to run it?
> >
> > How do I tell if the queue item is locked.  If you have a web browser, I
> 
> mailq -v
> look for a '*' next to the id.
> 
> > am running
> > webmin on the box and I have setup an account so you can come in and see
> > the mail queue yourself.
> >
> > enter www.timpanogas.org:10000 as your URL, then login as
> > username "sendmail" and password "sendmailbugs".   I will disable this
> 
> I don't know webmin, but most of the entries say "sending".  So
> check your sendmail processes to see what they are doing.  There
> might be some Linux TCP/IP stack bug that causes the problem (no
> proper timeout). For that you need to use trace/truss to see where
> the processes hang and how old they are.
> 
> I couldn't see any local delivery or very old entries.

[-- Attachment #2.1.2: ps.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 3116 bytes --]

  PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
    1 ?        S      0:06 init [3]
    2 ?        SW     0:00 [kflushd]
    3 ?        SW     0:01 [kupdate]
    4 ?        SW     0:00 [kpiod]
    5 ?        SW     0:00 [kswapd]
   95 ?        S      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
   96 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
   97 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
   98 ?        D      0:18 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
   99 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
  100 ?        D      0:05 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
  101 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
  102 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
  103 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
  104 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
  105 ?        D      0:00 /sbin/modprobe -s -k nwfs
  344 ?        S      0:00 portmap
  367 ?        S      0:00 rpc.statd
  390 ?        S      0:00 /usr/sbin/automount /misc file /etc/auto.misc
  405 ?        S      0:00 /usr/sbin/apmd -p 10 -w 5 -W -s /etc/sysconfig/apm-sc
  456 ?        S      0:19 syslogd -m 0
  465 ?        S      0:00 klogd
  479 ?        S      0:00 identd -e -o
  483 ?        S      0:00 identd -e -o
  484 ?        S      0:00 identd -e -o
  485 ?        S      0:00 identd -e -o
  486 ?        S      0:00 identd -e -o
  497 ?        S      0:00 /usr/sbin/atd
  511 ?        S      0:00 crond
  529 ?        S      0:01 inetd
  543 ?        S      0:20 named -u named
  557 ?        S      0:00 lpd
  616 ?        S      0:00 gpm -t ps/2
  630 ?        S      0:00 httpd
  709 ?        S      0:00 xfs -droppriv -daemon -port -1
  750 ?        S      0:06 /usr/sbin/sshd
  755 tty2     S      0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty2
  756 tty3     S      0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty3
  757 tty4     S      0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty4
  758 tty5     S      0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty5
  759 tty6     S      0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty6
 2611 tty1     S      0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty1
16526 ?        S      0:00 httpd
16528 ?        S      0:00 httpd
18678 ?        S      0:00 httpd
18679 ?        S      0:00 httpd
18680 ?        S      0:00 httpd
18681 ?        S      0:00 httpd
18682 ?        S      0:00 httpd
18683 ?        S      0:00 httpd
19308 ?        S      0:00 httpd
19309 ?        S      0:00 httpd
19310 ?        S      0:00 httpd
20757 ?        S      0:00 httpd
20936 ?        S      0:00 httpd
20937 ?        S      0:00 httpd
20938 ?        S      0:00 httpd
20939 ?        S      0:00 httpd
20940 ?        S      0:00 httpd
20941 ?        S      0:00 httpd
22244 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: accepting connections on port 25
22331 ?        S      0:00 in.telnetd: manos.timpanogas.org                     
22332 pts/1    S      0:00 login -- jmerkey                    
22333 pts/1    S      0:00 -bash
22359 pts/1    S      0:00 su -
22360 pts/1    S      0:00 -bash
22638 ?        S      0:00 ftpd: cvx-36.flex.com: anonymous/guest@unknown.net: R
22841 ?        S      0:00 ftpd: cadmium.sge.net: anonymous/bpftp@: IDLE        
22866 ?        S      0:00 perl /usr/libexec/webmin/miniserv.pl /etc/webmin/mini
22875 pts/1    R      0:00 ps -ax

[-- Attachment #2.1.3: mailq.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1679 bytes --]

		Mail Queue (11 requests)
--Q-ID-- --Size-- -Priority- ---Q-Time--- -----------Sender/Recipient-----------
FAA15716X   31418     200564 Nov  9 05:01 <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
          7BIT
					  <linux-archive@timpanogas.org>
					  <jmerkey@timpanogas.org>
FAA20318X   32693     201751 Nov 10 05:29 <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
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					  <linux-archive@timpanogas.org>
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SAA01998X   34484     203865 Nov  6 18:20 <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
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					  <linux-archive@timpanogas.org>
					  <jmerkey@timpanogas.org>
QAA01341X   65091     204150 Nov  6 16:50 <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
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					  <mharris@opensourceadvocate.org>
SAA13390X   41368     210478 Nov  8 18:03 <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
          7BIT
					  <linux-archive@timpanogas.org>
					  <jmerkey@timpanogas.org>
LAA03425X  158115     218595 Nov  6 11:27 <jmerkey@timpanogas.org>
					  <Mark.Coe@rrd.com>
					  <jmerkey@timpanogas.com>
QAA01343X   65091     234150 Nov  6 16:50 <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
          7BIT
					  <linux-archive@timpanogas.org>
					  <jmerkey@timpanogas.org>
KAA21225X  205041     235799 Nov 10 10:26 <paperboy@g2news.com>
      8BITMIME
					  <jmerkey@timpanogas.com>
FAA20229X    1457     272283+Nov 10 05:01 <mharris@opensourceadvocate.org>
                 (Warning: could not send message for past 1 hour)
					  <andre@linux-ide.org>
QAA06681X  242511     272929 Nov  7 16:18 <jmerkey@timpanogas.org>
      8BITMIME
					  <andre@timpanogas.org>
PAA12261X  576306     606701 Nov  8 15:06 <langus@timpanogas.com>
					  <jmerkey@timpanogas.com>