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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Luben Tuikov <ltuikov@yahoo.com>
Cc: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
	Willy Tarreau <willy@w.ods.org>,
	SCSI Mailing List <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Luben Tuikov <luben_tuikov@adaptec.com>,
	Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: I request inclusion of SAS Transport Layer and AIC-94xx into the kernel
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:35:27 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0509291730360.3378@g5.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20050929232013.95117.qmail@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



On Thu, 29 Sep 2005, Luben Tuikov wrote:
>
> >    It's like real science: if you have a theory that doesn't match 
> >    experiments, it doesn't matter _how_ much you like that theory. It's
> >    wrong. You can use it as an approximation, but you MUST keep in mind 
> >    that it's an approximation.
> 
> But this is _the_ definition of a theory.  No one is arguing that
> a theory is not an approximation to observed behaviour.

No.

A scientific theory is an approximation of observed behaviour WITH NO 
KNOWN HOLES.

Once there are known holes in the theory, it's not a scientific theory. At 
best it's an approximation, but quite possibly it's just plain wrong.

And that's my point. Specs are not only almost invariably badly written, 
they also never actually match reality. 

At which point at _best_ it's just an approximation. At worst, it's much 
worse. At worst, it causes people to ignore reality, and then it becomes 
religion.

And that's way _way_ too common. People who ignore reality are sadly not 
at all unusual.

"But the spec says ..." is pretty much always a sign of somebody who has 
just blocked out the fact that some device doesn't.

So don't talk about specs.

Talk about working code that is _readable_ and _works_.

There's an absolutely mindbogglingly huge difference between the two.

			Linus

  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-09-30  0:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 169+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-09-26 19:38 I request inclusion of SAS Transport Layer and AIC-94xx into the kernel Luben Tuikov
2005-09-27 21:55 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-27 22:51   ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-27 23:14     ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-28 11:37       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 12:32         ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-09-28 14:50           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-09-30  1:56             ` Junio C Hamano
2005-09-28 16:27         ` Patrick Mansfield
2005-09-28 16:34           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 19:45           ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-28 20:56             ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 22:35               ` Willy Tarreau
2005-09-28 23:22                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-28 23:29                   ` David S. Miller
2005-09-29  5:30                     ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-29  7:24                       ` David S. Miller
2005-09-30  7:36                         ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-30 18:34                           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 18:50                             ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-30 19:08                               ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 21:31                                 ` Kyle Moffett
2005-09-30 22:10                                   ` Greg Freemyer
2005-09-30 22:19                                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 23:54                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-01  4:58                                       ` Willy Tarreau
2005-10-03 15:08                                         ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 14:04                                       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 22:14                                   ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-01  0:33                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-03 14:18                                       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 14:26                                         ` I request inclusion of SAS Transport Layer and AIC-94xx intothe kernel David Lang
2005-10-03 15:19                                           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 15:30                                             ` I request inclusion of SAS Transport Layer and AIC-94xx intothekernel David Lang
2005-10-03 16:01                                         ` I request inclusion of SAS Transport Layer and AIC-94xx into the kernel Jeff Garzik
2005-09-30 20:45                             ` James Bottomley
2005-09-30 22:05                               ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-01  0:38                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-03 15:27                                   ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 16:28                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-30 22:04                             ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-30 22:32                               ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 23:57                             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-03 14:15                               ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 15:57                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-03 16:23                                   ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 16:48                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-03 19:03                                       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 19:32                                         ` Mike Christie
2005-10-03 20:15                                           ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-03 19:10                                 ` Mike Christie
2005-09-30 18:51                           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 14:33                 ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 14:48                   ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29 15:50                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 16:54                       ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29 18:25                         ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 15:15                   ` grundig
2005-09-29 15:17                   ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-09-29 16:33                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 16:56                       ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29 16:58                         ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 17:03                           ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29 18:09                           ` Gerrit Huizenga
2005-09-29 17:13                       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-09-29 18:39                         ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 22:43                           ` Joel Becker
2005-09-29 17:52                   ` John Stoffel
2005-09-29 19:20                     ` Bruce Ferrell
2005-09-28 22:43               ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-29 15:04                 ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 15:08                   ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29 16:22                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 19:09                   ` Stefan Richter
2005-09-29 22:06                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 16:30         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-09-28 16:35           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28  2:02     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-28 20:36       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 21:00         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-28 22:10           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 23:04             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29  4:04               ` Willy Tarreau
2005-09-29  7:44                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-09-29 15:09                   ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 15:20                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29 16:56                       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 17:11                         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-30 18:16                     ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-09-29 17:15                   ` Stefan Richter
2005-09-29 17:29                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-29 19:32                   ` Willy Tarreau
2005-09-29 19:57                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-09-29 22:49                     ` jerome lacoste
2005-09-29 23:20                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 23:57                       ` Prasenjit Sarkar
2005-09-30  6:35                         ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-30  0:35                       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2005-09-30  1:25                         ` Hua Zhong
2005-09-30  2:42                         ` Marcin Dalecki
2005-09-30 19:12                           ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-09-30 19:38                             ` Bob Copeland
2005-09-30  7:29                         ` Douglas Gilbert
2005-09-30 14:23                           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 16:26                           ` Andrew Patterson
2005-09-30 16:47                             ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 14:07                         ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30  5:31                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-09-30  6:52                     ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-29 19:59               ` Stefan Richter
2005-09-29 19:37       ` Stefan Richter
2005-09-29 19:22   ` Stefan Richter
2005-09-27 13:07 Luben Tuikov
2005-09-27 13:19 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-09-27 15:01   ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-27 15:53     ` James Bottomley
2005-09-27 19:35       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-27 20:34         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-27 21:44           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-27 22:01             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-27 23:03               ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-27 23:32                 ` Andrew Patterson
2005-09-28  2:07                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-09-28  0:28 Moore, Eric Dean
2005-09-28  1:34 ` Andre Hedrick
2005-09-28 11:42 ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 15:15 Moore, Eric Dean
2005-09-28 16:59 ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-28 22:17 Moore, Eric Dean
2005-09-29 12:46 ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-29 15:45 Moore, Eric Dean
2005-09-30  1:28 Martin Fouts
2005-09-30 17:07 Salyzyn, Mark
2005-09-30 17:53 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-10-01 23:55   ` Alan Cox
2005-10-03 16:17     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-04  6:51       ` Andre Hedrick
2005-10-04 15:01         ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 18:39 ` Andrew Patterson
2005-09-30 19:21   ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 20:14     ` Andrew Patterson
2005-09-30 20:22       ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-09-30 21:44         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-10-01 17:46         ` Greg KH
2005-09-30 20:32       ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 21:15         ` Andrew Patterson
2005-09-30 21:40           ` Joel Becker
2005-09-30 22:01           ` Luben Tuikov
2005-09-30 23:42             ` Marcin Dalecki
2005-10-03 13:54               ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 16:29                 ` Marcin Dalecki
2005-10-03 16:35                   ` Andrew Patterson
2005-10-03 16:39                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-03 19:16                       ` Marcin Dalecki
2005-10-03 21:26                       ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2005-10-03 22:04                         ` Ryan Anderson
2005-10-03 22:56                           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-10-03 23:22                             ` Al Viro
2005-10-04 13:55                             ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2005-10-04 15:09                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-10-04 14:38                             ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-04 14:54                               ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-04 15:19                                 ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-04 15:26                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-04 15:40                                     ` Luben Tuikov
2005-10-04 15:46                                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-10-04  6:30                           ` Andre Hedrick
2005-10-01  0:02     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-10-01  0:01   ` Jeff Garzik

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