* 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
@ 2003-05-10 13:57 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 13:59 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-11 11:28 ` Andrew McGregor
0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
linux-2.5.69 (problem encountered since 2.5.67)
DELL Inspiron 8100
- Pentium3-M
- ESS Maestro3
- Intel chipset
- builtin eepro100
- builtin lucent winmodem (not used)
- builtin nVidia GeForce2 Go (yes happens without nvdia.com driver too)
- BIOS A15
using vanilla Debian GNU/Linux sid without incorporation of
Debian's kernel-package mechanism.
ever since I've run ALSA's snddevices script to create the needed /dev
entries the laptop creates a permanent low-volume high tone (beep-like,
but definitely not sounding like a normal pc-speaker).
didn't happen with 2.5.x prior to running snddevices script and also
doesn't happen with 2.4.x.
* I am not saying that this behaviour is ALSA related *
* just telling how it came into existence *
first I thought it has to be the "beep on init" issue Zach Brown also
noted in the TODO-list in OSS maestro3.c. Zach told me to contact ALSA
list or Takashi Iwai directly. I took the shortcut and tried to find
out whether this could be ALSA maestro3.c (based off OSS maestro3.c)
related and after some mailing with Takashi he concluded that it
doesn't look like an ALSA problem.
now I tried again with 2.5.69 and also with a modified 2.5.69 that
is basically ALSA CVS copied over vanilla 2.5.69.
without luck and while searching for an answer in #kernelnewbies
William Lee "wli" Irwin III advised me to fire off a report to LKML.
description of the strange sound:
- high tone
- permanent
- happens before loading ALSA modules
- as I didn't DEBUG I couldn't see at which log-message (dmesg) the
beep starts
- seems to come and go with HDD activity
* I am not in a position to say that this is a bug in the kernel *
* it just seems so to me *
thanks in advance for any helpful reply
.config (be warned about gmx.de webmailer signature at the end):
CONFIG_X86=y
CONFIG_MMU=y
CONFIG_UID16=y
CONFIG_GENERIC_ISA_DMA=y
CONFIG_EXPERIMENTAL=y
CONFIG_SWAP=y
CONFIG_SYSVIPC=y
CONFIG_BSD_PROCESS_ACCT=y
CONFIG_SYSCTL=y
CONFIG_LOG_BUF_SHIFT=14
CONFIG_MODULES=y
CONFIG_MODULE_UNLOAD=y
CONFIG_MODULE_FORCE_UNLOAD=y
CONFIG_OBSOLETE_MODPARM=y
CONFIG_KMOD=y
CONFIG_X86_PC=y
CONFIG_MPENTIUMIII=y
CONFIG_X86_CMPXCHG=y
CONFIG_X86_XADD=y
CONFIG_X86_L1_CACHE_SHIFT=5
CONFIG_RWSEM_XCHGADD_ALGORITHM=y
CONFIG_X86_WP_WORKS_OK=y
CONFIG_X86_INVLPG=y
CONFIG_X86_BSWAP=y
CONFIG_X86_POPAD_OK=y
CONFIG_X86_GOOD_APIC=y
CONFIG_X86_INTEL_USERCOPY=y
CONFIG_X86_USE_PPRO_CHECKSUM=y
CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
CONFIG_X86_TSC=y
CONFIG_X86_MCE=y
CONFIG_I8K=y
CONFIG_MICROCODE=y
CONFIG_X86_MSR=y
CONFIG_X86_CPUID=y
CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y
CONFIG_MTRR=y
CONFIG_HAVE_DEC_LOCK=y
CONFIG_PM=y
CONFIG_APM=y
CONFIG_APM_DO_ENABLE=y
CONFIG_APM_CPU_IDLE=y
CONFIG_APM_DISPLAY_BLANK=y
CONFIG_APM_REAL_MODE_POWER_OFF=y
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ=y
CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_TABLE=y
CONFIG_X86_SPEEDSTEP=y
CONFIG_PCI=y
CONFIG_PCI_GOANY=y
CONFIG_PCI_BIOS=y
CONFIG_PCI_DIRECT=y
CONFIG_PCI_LEGACY_PROC=y
CONFIG_PCI_NAMES=y
CONFIG_ISA=y
CONFIG_HOTPLUG=y
CONFIG_PCMCIA=m
CONFIG_CARDBUS=y
CONFIG_I82365=m
CONFIG_PCMCIA_PROBE=y
CONFIG_KCORE_ELF=y
CONFIG_BINFMT_AOUT=m
CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF=y
CONFIG_BINFMT_MISC=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_FD=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM_SIZE=4096
CONFIG_IDE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDISK=y
CONFIG_IDEDISK_MULTI_MODE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDESCSI=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEPCI=y
CONFIG_IDEPCI_SHARE_IRQ=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA_PCI=y
CONFIG_IDEDMA_PCI_AUTO=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_ADMA=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_PIIX=y
CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE_MODES=y
CONFIG_SCSI=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR=y
CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG=y
CONFIG_SCSI_CONSTANTS=y
CONFIG_NET=y
CONFIG_PACKET=y
CONFIG_NETFILTER=y
CONFIG_UNIX=y
CONFIG_INET=y
CONFIG_IP_MULTICAST=y
CONFIG_INET_AH=y
CONFIG_INET_ESP=y
CONFIG_INET_IPCOMP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_CONNTRACK=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_FTP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_IRC=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TFTP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_AMANDA=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_IPTABLES=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_LIMIT=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_MAC=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_PKTTYPE=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_MARK=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_MULTIPORT=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_TOS=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_ECN=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_DSCP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_AH_ESP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_LENGTH=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_TTL=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_HELPER=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_STATE=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MATCH_CONNTRACK=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_FILTER=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_NEEDED=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_MASQUERADE=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_REDIRECT=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_LOCAL=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_IRC=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_FTP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_TFTP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_NAT_AMANDA=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_MANGLE=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_TOS=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_ECN=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_DSCP=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_MARK=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_LOG=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_ULOG=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_ARPTABLES=y
CONFIG_IP_NF_ARPFILTER=y
CONFIG_IPV6_SCTP__=y
CONFIG_NETDEVICES=y
CONFIG_DUMMY=m
CONFIG_NET_ETHERNET=y
CONFIG_NET_PCI=y
CONFIG_EEPRO100=m
CONFIG_NET_RADIO=y
CONFIG_HERMES=m
CONFIG_PLX_HERMES=m
CONFIG_PCI_HERMES=m
CONFIG_PCMCIA_HERMES=m
CONFIG_NET_WIRELESS=y
CONFIG_INPUT=y
CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV=y
CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV_PSAUX=y
CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV_SCREEN_X=1024
CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV_SCREEN_Y=768
CONFIG_SOUND_GAMEPORT=y
CONFIG_SERIO=y
CONFIG_SERIO_I8042=y
CONFIG_SERIO_SERPORT=y
CONFIG_INPUT_KEYBOARD=y
CONFIG_KEYBOARD_ATKBD=y
CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSE=y
CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2=y
CONFIG_VT=y
CONFIG_VT_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_HW_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_UNIX98_PTYS=y
CONFIG_UNIX98_PTY_COUNT=256
CONFIG_NVRAM=y
CONFIG_RTC=y
CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y
CONFIG_EXT3_FS=y
CONFIG_EXT3_FS_XATTR=y
CONFIG_EXT3_FS_POSIX_ACL=y
CONFIG_JBD=y
CONFIG_FS_MBCACHE=y
CONFIG_FS_POSIX_ACL=y
CONFIG_ISO9660_FS=m
CONFIG_JOLIET=y
CONFIG_ZISOFS=y
CONFIG_ZISOFS_FS=m
CONFIG_UDF_FS=m
CONFIG_FAT_FS=m
CONFIG_MSDOS_FS=m
CONFIG_VFAT_FS=m
CONFIG_NTFS_FS=m
CONFIG_PROC_FS=y
CONFIG_DEVPTS_FS=y
CONFIG_TMPFS=y
CONFIG_RAMFS=y
CONFIG_PARTITION_ADVANCED=y
CONFIG_MSDOS_PARTITION=y
CONFIG_NLS=y
CONFIG_NLS_DEFAULT="iso8859-1"
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_437=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_737=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_775=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_850=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_852=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_855=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_857=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_860=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_861=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_862=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_863=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_864=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_865=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_866=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_869=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_936=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_950=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_932=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_949=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_874=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_8=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_1250=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_1251=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_1=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_2=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_3=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_4=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_5=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_6=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_7=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_9=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_13=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_14=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_15=m
CONFIG_NLS_KOI8_R=m
CONFIG_NLS_KOI8_U=m
CONFIG_NLS_UTF8=m
CONFIG_VIDEO_SELECT=y
CONFIG_VGA_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_DUMMY_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_SOUND=m
CONFIG_SND=m
CONFIG_SND_OSSEMUL=y
CONFIG_SND_MIXER_OSS=m
CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS=m
CONFIG_SND_RTCTIMER=m
CONFIG_SND_MAESTRO3=m
CONFIG_KALLSYMS=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_HMAC=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_NULL=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_MD4=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_MD5=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_SHA1=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_SHA256=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_SHA512=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_DES=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_BLOWFISH=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_TWOFISH=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_SERPENT=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_AES=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_DEFLATE=y
CONFIG_CRYPTO_TEST=y
CONFIG_CRC32=y
CONFIG_ZLIB_INFLATE=y
CONFIG_ZLIB_DEFLATE=y
CONFIG_X86_BIOS_REBOOT=y
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 13:57 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 13:59 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-10 15:07 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-11 11:28 ` Andrew McGregor
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Alan Cox @ 2003-05-10 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List
On Sad, 2003-05-10 at 14:57, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> description of the strange sound:
> - high tone
> - permanent
> - happens before loading ALSA modules
What happens if you mute the microphone and line in ?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 13:59 ` Alan Cox
@ 2003-05-10 15:07 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 15:28 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Cox; +Cc: linux-kernel
On 10 May 2003 14:59:31 +0100
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> On Sad, 2003-05-10 at 14:57, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> > description of the strange sound:
> > - high tone
> > - permanent
> > - happens before loading ALSA modules
>
> What happens if you mute the microphone and line in ?
how to do that prior to booting up the kernel?
if I should do it later (after module loading, maybe on
amixer init) I'd have to consult amixer manuals
to see how that works first...
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 15:07 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 15:28 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 15:39 ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 16:25 ` Jamie Lokier
0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: alan; +Cc: linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 17:07:51 +0200
Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
> On 10 May 2003 14:59:31 +0100
> Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Sad, 2003-05-10 at 14:57, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> > > description of the strange sound:
> > > - high tone
> > > - permanent
> > > - happens before loading ALSA modules
> >
> > What happens if you mute the microphone and line in ?
>
> how to do that prior to booting up the kernel?
> if I should do it later (after module loading, maybe on
> amixer init) I'd have to consult amixer manuals
> to see how that works first...
hmm according to alsamixer everything is "ZERO".
see asound.state below.
what I found out right now is that when there is
load (moving mailer windows around) the sound
is gone and reappears if there's no load aka
I stop moving mailer window (while typing this mail).
state.Dummy {
control.1 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 100'
iface MIXER
name 'Master Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.2 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Master Capture Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.3 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 100'
iface MIXER
name 'Synth Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.4 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Synth Capture Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.5 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 100'
iface MIXER
name 'Line Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.6 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Line Capture Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.7 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 100'
iface MIXER
name 'Mic Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.8 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Mic Capture Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
control.9 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 100'
iface MIXER
name 'CD Volume'
value.0 52
value.1 52
}
control.10 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'CD Capture Switch'
value.0 false
value.1 false
}
}
state.VirMIDI {
}
state.PCI {
control.1 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Master Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.2 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'Master Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.3 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Master Mono Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.4 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'Master Mono Playback Volume'
value 0
}
control.5 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'PC Speaker Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.6 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 15'
iface MIXER
name 'PC Speaker Playback Volume'
value 0
}
control.7 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Phone Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.8 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'Phone Playback Volume'
value 0
}
control.9 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Mic Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.10 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'Mic Playback Volume'
value 0
}
control.11 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Mic Boost (+20dB)'
value false
}
control.12 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Line Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.13 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'Line Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.14 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'CD Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.15 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'CD Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.16 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Video Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.17 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'Video Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.18 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Aux Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.19 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'Aux Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.20 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'PCM Playback Switch'
value false
}
control.21 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 31'
iface MIXER
name 'PCM Playback Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.22 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type ENUMERATED
comment.item.0 Mic
comment.item.1 CD
comment.item.2 Video
comment.item.3 Aux
comment.item.4 Line
comment.item.5 Mix
comment.item.6 'Mix Mono'
comment.item.7 Phone
iface MIXER
name 'Capture Source'
value.0 Mic
value.1 Mic
}
control.23 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'Capture Switch'
value true
}
control.24 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 15'
iface MIXER
name 'Capture Volume'
value.0 0
value.1 0
}
control.25 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name '3D Control - Switch'
value false
}
control.26 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type ENUMERATED
comment.item.0 Mix
comment.item.1 Mic
iface MIXER
name 'Mono Output Select'
value Mix
}
control.27 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type ENUMERATED
comment.item.0 Mic1
comment.item.1 Mic2
iface MIXER
name 'Mic Select'
value Mic1
}
control.28 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type INTEGER
comment.range '0 - 3'
iface MIXER
name '3D Control Sigmatel - Depth'
value 0
}
control.29 {
comment.access 'read write'
comment.type BOOLEAN
iface MIXER
name 'External Amplifier Power Down'
value false
}
}
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 15:28 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 15:39 ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 15:46 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 16:25 ` Jamie Lokier
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Ahmed Masud @ 2003-05-10 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: alan, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> On Sat, 10 May 2003 17:07:51 +0200
> Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > On 10 May 2003 14:59:31 +0100
> > Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sad, 2003-05-10 at 14:57, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> > > > description of the strange sound:
> > > > - high tone
> > > > - permanent
> > > > - happens before loading ALSA modules
Is this high tone comming out of external speakers or is it from internal
speaker?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 15:39 ` Ahmed Masud
@ 2003-05-10 15:46 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ahmed Masud; +Cc: alan, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 11:39:12 -0400 (EDT)
Ahmed Masud <masud@googgun.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 10 May 2003, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 10 May 2003 17:07:51 +0200
> > Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
> >
> > > On 10 May 2003 14:59:31 +0100
> > > Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sad, 2003-05-10 at 14:57, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> > > > > description of the strange sound:
> > > > > - high tone
> > > > > - permanent
> > > > > - happens before loading ALSA modules
>
> Is this high tone comming out of external speakers or is it from
> internal speaker?
definitely not external speaker.
can't say whether there is an internal speaker it could come
from. source of sound is right beneath the keyboard,
and creating load aka moving an x11 window around produces
funny patterns --> no high tone, it almost disappears,
but just low-volume sound reacting to when I move the
window around.
for a non-hardware-expert this is strange stuff.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 15:28 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 15:39 ` Ahmed Masud
@ 2003-05-10 16:25 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-05-10 16:51 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Jamie Lokier @ 2003-05-10 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: alan, linux-kernel
Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> what I found out right now is that when there is
> load (moving mailer windows around) the sound
> is gone and reappears if there's no load aka
> I stop moving mailer window (while typing this mail).
That's the opposite of my Toshiba in any of the lower power modes.
When there's CPU activity, it emits a quiet high-pitched noise. When
CPU activity stops, the noise stops. This doesn't happen in the
maximum power usage mode (brigh screen, fastest clock), and I don't
know if there's a way to turn it off.
-- Jamie
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 16:25 ` Jamie Lokier
@ 2003-05-10 16:51 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 17:35 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 16:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jamie Lokier; +Cc: linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 17:25:27 +0100
Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org> wrote:
> Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> > what I found out right now is that when there is
> > load (moving mailer windows around) the sound
> > is gone and reappears if there's no load aka
> > I stop moving mailer window (while typing this mail).
>
> That's the opposite of my Toshiba in any of the lower power modes.
>
> When there's CPU activity, it emits a quiet high-pitched noise. When
> CPU activity stops, the noise stops. This doesn't happen in the
> maximum power usage mode (brigh screen, fastest clock), and I don't
> know if there's a way to turn it off.
1) with SpeedStep enabled in BIOS and also enabled with software
switching to full-speed mode turn down the volum a bit.
2) disabled SpeedStep in BIOS. init-scripts enabled speed step
same behaviour as in 1)
funny side is that prior to booting 2.5 on the LILO prompt
I listened and would bet that the same noise but very very
quietly was still there.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 16:51 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 17:35 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 17:47 ` Xavier Bestel
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: jamie, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 18:51:18 +0200
Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 May 2003 17:25:27 +0100
> Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org> wrote:
>
> > Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> > > what I found out right now is that when there is
> > > load (moving mailer windows around) the sound
> > > is gone and reappears if there's no load aka
> > > I stop moving mailer window (while typing this mail).
> >
> > That's the opposite of my Toshiba in any of the lower power modes.
> >
> > When there's CPU activity, it emits a quiet high-pitched noise.
> > When CPU activity stops, the noise stops. This doesn't happen in
> > the maximum power usage mode (brigh screen, fastest clock), and I
> > don't know if there's a way to turn it off.
>
> 1) with SpeedStep enabled in BIOS and also enabled with software
> switching to full-speed mode turn down the volum a bit.
>
> 2) disabled SpeedStep in BIOS. init-scripts enabled speed step
> same behaviour as in 1)
>
> funny side is that prior to booting 2.5 on the LILO prompt
> I listened and would bet that the same noise but very very
> quietly was still there.
rebooted with a reconfigured kernel to assure it's not cpufreq.
same behaviour without cpufreq.
btw, I'm not 100% sure anymore now running 2.4 whether I really
heard the same noise just quiet. hard to differentiate and also
doesn't matter from my view as it doesn't annoy like the
2.5 noise effect.
--> if it's the same noise, it would be ok, as you don't hear it
normally sitting in front of the box, but running 2.5 is not
nice with that high-pitched tone.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 17:35 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 17:47 ` Xavier Bestel
2003-05-10 20:06 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Xavier Bestel @ 2003-05-10 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: jamie, Linux Kernel Mailing List
Le sam 10/05/2003 à 19:35, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz a écrit :
> rebooted with a reconfigured kernel to assure it's not cpufreq.
> same behaviour without cpufreq.
You should perhaps try to enable/disable APM idle calls ..
Xav
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 17:47 ` Xavier Bestel
@ 2003-05-10 20:06 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 20:23 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Xavier Bestel; +Cc: linux-kernel
On 10 May 2003 19:47:47 +0200
Xavier Bestel <xavier.bestel@free.fr> wrote:
> Le sam 10/05/2003 à 19:35, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz a écrit :
>
> > rebooted with a reconfigured kernel to assure it's not cpufreq.
> > same behaviour without cpufreq.
>
> You should perhaps try to enable/disable APM idle calls ..
>
> Xav
disabling apm idle calls seem to fix it but on this notebook
those calls are necessary so that it doesn't get too hot.
or can ACPI be used to accomplish those calls?
I'm already running it always on SpeeStep power-saving mode
so that it doesn't get REALLY hot. try typing on an Inspiron
8100 in the summer while compiling for a while. it's not
healthy for your hands :D
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 20:06 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 20:23 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 21:13 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: xavier.bestel, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 22:06:25 +0200
Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
> On 10 May 2003 19:47:47 +0200
> Xavier Bestel <xavier.bestel@free.fr> wrote:
>
> > Le sam 10/05/2003 à 19:35, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz a écrit :
> >
> > > rebooted with a reconfigured kernel to assure it's not cpufreq.
> > > same behaviour without cpufreq.
> >
> > You should perhaps try to enable/disable APM idle calls ..
> >
> > Xav
>
> disabling apm idle calls seem to fix it but on this notebook
> those calls are necessary so that it doesn't get too hot.
> or can ACPI be used to accomplish those calls?
>
> I'm already running it always on SpeeStep power-saving mode
> so that it doesn't get REALLY hot. try typing on an Inspiron
> 8100 in the summer while compiling for a while. it's not
> healthy for your hands :D
besides fixing the noise issue by disabling a wanted feature,
somehow pcmcia is borked, it just doesn't work and print
lots of error messages and one of pcmcia processes (dunno which)
segfaults.
may be my fault, who knows. well, we'll see...
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 20:23 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 21:13 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-11 10:50 ` Dumitru Ciobarcianu
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: xavier.bestel, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 22:23:06 +0200
Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 May 2003 22:06:25 +0200
> Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > On 10 May 2003 19:47:47 +0200
> > Xavier Bestel <xavier.bestel@free.fr> wrote:
> >
> > > Le sam 10/05/2003 à 19:35, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz a écrit :
> > >
> > > > rebooted with a reconfigured kernel to assure it's not cpufreq.
> > > > same behaviour without cpufreq.
> > >
> > > You should perhaps try to enable/disable APM idle calls ..
> > >
> > > Xav
> >
> > disabling apm idle calls seem to fix it but on this notebook
> > those calls are necessary so that it doesn't get too hot.
> > or can ACPI be used to accomplish those calls?
> >
> > I'm already running it always on SpeeStep power-saving mode
> > so that it doesn't get REALLY hot. try typing on an Inspiron
> > 8100 in the summer while compiling for a while. it's not
> > healthy for your hands :D
>
> besides fixing the noise issue by disabling a wanted feature,
> somehow pcmcia is borked, it just doesn't work and print
> lots of error messages and one of pcmcia processes (dunno which)
> segfaults.
> may be my fault, who knows. well, we'll see...
well, I actually saw PCMCIA functioning properly after
make clean'ing, recompiling and rebooting.
so no worries about that. now, off to find a replacement
for "APM idle calls".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 21:13 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-11 10:50 ` Dumitru Ciobarcianu
2003-05-11 13:11 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Dumitru Ciobarcianu @ 2003-05-11 10:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: xavier.bestel, linux-kernel
On Sun, 2003-05-11 at 00:13, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> well, I actually saw PCMCIA functioning properly after
> make clean'ing, recompiling and rebooting.
> so no worries about that. now, off to find a replacement
> for "APM idle calls".
You can try cpufreqd (to set the cpu according to the usage).
http://sourceforge.net/projects/cpufreqd
I also use acpi performance states...
For instance on my laptop (Toshiba Satellite Pro 6100 , 2Ghz)
I have this on /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/performance :
[cioby@LNX cioby]$ cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/performance
state count: 2
active state: P0
states:
*P0: 2000 MHz, 22000 mW, 250 uS
P1: 1200 MHz, 9800 mW, 250 uS
I often switch to performance state 1 even in if not running on battery.
If I keep it in my lap, and do an kernel compile, I don't want my balls
to get fryed :)
--
Cioby
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-11 10:50 ` Dumitru Ciobarcianu
@ 2003-05-11 13:11 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-11 13:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dumitru Ciobarcianu; +Cc: linux-kernel
> On Sun, 2003-05-11 at 00:13, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
>
> > well, I actually saw PCMCIA functioning properly after
> > make clean'ing, recompiling and rebooting.
> > so no worries about that. now, off to find a replacement
> > for "APM idle calls".
>
> You can try cpufreqd (to set the cpu according to the usage).
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/cpufreqd
>
> I also use acpi performance states...
>
> For instance on my laptop (Toshiba Satellite Pro 6100 , 2Ghz)
> I have this on /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/performance :
>
> [cioby@LNX cioby]$ cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/performance
> state count: 2
> active state: P0
> states:
> *P0: 2000 MHz, 22000 mW, 250 uS
> P1: 1200 MHz, 9800 mW, 250 uS
>
> I often switch to performance state 1 even in if not running on battery.
> If I keep it in my lap, and do an kernel compile, I don't want my balls
> to get fryed :)
exactly why I need it too except that I don't put it on my lap but my
hands burn anyway. I hope not every laptop gets as hot as this one does.
do you
remember
http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:qGf0kfmazVgC:www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/22/1037697857595.html+&hl=de&ie=UTF-8
?
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 13:57 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 13:59 ` Alan Cox
@ 2003-05-11 11:28 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-11 13:03 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
` (2 more replies)
1 sibling, 3 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Andrew McGregor @ 2003-05-11 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz, linux-kernel
Try this (which will make no difference to the effectiveness of APM on this
machine):
> CONFIG_PM=y
>
> CONFIG_APM=y
> CONFIG_APM_DO_ENABLE=n
> CONFIG_APM_CPU_IDLE=n
> CONFIG_APM_DISPLAY_BLANK=y
> CONFIG_APM_REAL_MODE_POWER_OFF=y
>
> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ=n
> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_TABLE=n
>
> CONFIG_X86_SPEEDSTEP=n
Reasoning:
cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
*internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises when APM
tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway, without making
noise, so linux need not.
Andrew
--On Saturday, 10 May 2003 3:57 p.m. +0200 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
<tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
> linux-2.5.69 (problem encountered since 2.5.67)
> DELL Inspiron 8100
> - Pentium3-M
> - ESS Maestro3
> - Intel chipset
> - builtin eepro100
> - builtin lucent winmodem (not used)
> - builtin nVidia GeForce2 Go (yes happens without nvdia.com driver too)
> - BIOS A15
>
> using vanilla Debian GNU/Linux sid without incorporation of
> Debian's kernel-package mechanism.
>
> ever since I've run ALSA's snddevices script to create the needed /dev
> entries the laptop creates a permanent low-volume high tone (beep-like,
> but definitely not sounding like a normal pc-speaker).
> CONFIG_PM=y
>
> CONFIG_APM=y
> CONFIG_APM_DO_ENABLE=y
> CONFIG_APM_CPU_IDLE=y
> CONFIG_APM_DISPLAY_BLANK=y
> CONFIG_APM_REAL_MODE_POWER_OFF=y
>
> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ=y
> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_TABLE=y
>
> CONFIG_X86_SPEEDSTEP=y
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-11 11:28 ` Andrew McGregor
@ 2003-05-11 13:03 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-12 0:34 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-11 20:48 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-13 12:43 ` Troels Walsted Hansen
2 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-11 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew McGregor; +Cc: linux-kernel
> Try this (which will make no difference to the effectiveness of APM on
> this
> machine):
>
> > CONFIG_PM=y
> >
> > CONFIG_APM=y
> > CONFIG_APM_DO_ENABLE=n
> > CONFIG_APM_CPU_IDLE=n
> > CONFIG_APM_DISPLAY_BLANK=y
> > CONFIG_APM_REAL_MODE_POWER_OFF=y
> >
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ=n
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_TABLE=n
> >
> > CONFIG_X86_SPEEDSTEP=n
>
> Reasoning:
> cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
> *internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises when APM
> tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway, without making
hmm, at least now I know where that strange sound comes from.
I'm not quite sure that SpeedStep does not work,
with SpeedStep disabled in the BIOS the fans turned on again with
cpu load. this doesn't happen with SpeedStep. so I suppose it works
to some extent, right?
> noise, so linux need not.
so what options should I set?
as I've already stated it's not bearable to do coding (incl. compiling)
on this box without "Battery Optimized Mode" as SpeedStep calls it.
on Linux I did that with a simple tool called speedstep.
I've seen autospeedstep from Fritz Ganter which seems to use ACPI,
dunno how that compares to cpufreqd.
anyway, this laptop is not-so-nice anyway, I'm just happy I didn't
buy it but my employer did ;)
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-11 13:03 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-12 0:34 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-12 6:17 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
[not found] ` <200305120620.h4C6K64j061741@ns.indranet.co.nz>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Andrew McGregor @ 2003-05-12 0:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: linux-kernel
Hi there...
--On Sunday, 11 May 2003 3:03 p.m. +0200 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
<tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Reasoning:
>> cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
>> *internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises when APM
>> tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway, without making
>
> hmm, at least now I know where that strange sound comes from.
> I'm not quite sure that SpeedStep does not work,
> with SpeedStep disabled in the BIOS the fans turned on again with
> cpu load. this doesn't happen with SpeedStep. so I suppose it works
> to some extent, right?
Sounds like it to me. It certainly does not work on my i8000, but the 8100
is possibly different.
>
>> noise, so linux need not.
>
> so what options should I set?
> as I've already stated it's not bearable to do coding (incl. compiling)
> on this box without "Battery Optimized Mode" as SpeedStep calls it.
> on Linux I did that with a simple tool called speedstep.
> I've seen autospeedstep from Fritz Ganter which seems to use ACPI,
> dunno how that compares to cpufreqd.
Hmm. Maybe the 8100 has working speedstep, then. I'd suggest you see if
disabling just the APM idle calls, but leaving speedstep and cpufreq on
makes the noise.
I have had no success whatever with ACPI on an i8000, but again an 8100 may
be different.
>
> anyway, this laptop is not-so-nice anyway, I'm just happy I didn't
> buy it but my employer did ;)
Same here, and I mostly agree. Good price for such a nice screen, though
(I have the 1600x1200 15" screen).
Andrew
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-12 0:34 ` Andrew McGregor
@ 2003-05-12 6:17 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
[not found] ` <200305120620.h4C6K64j061741@ns.indranet.co.nz>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-12 6:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew McGregor; +Cc: linux-kernel
On Mon, 12 May 2003 12:34:36 +1200
Andrew McGregor <andrew@indranet.co.nz> wrote:
> Hi there...
>
> --On Sunday, 11 May 2003 3:03 p.m. +0200 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
> <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> >> Reasoning:
> >> cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
> >> *internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises
> >when APM> tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway,
> >without making
> >
> > hmm, at least now I know where that strange sound comes from.
> > I'm not quite sure that SpeedStep does not work,
> > with SpeedStep disabled in the BIOS the fans turned on again with
> > cpu load. this doesn't happen with SpeedStep. so I suppose it works
> > to some extent, right?
>
> Sounds like it to me. It certainly does not work on my i8000, but the
> 8100 is possibly different.
one thing none of you most probably wants to hear:
if this "APM idle calls" is that "HLT" stuff, then I have to tell you
that on win32 I had not such problems while using the CpuIdle tool.
sorry.
> >
> >> noise, so linux need not.
> >
> > so what options should I set?
> > as I've already stated it's not bearable to do coding (incl.
> > compiling) on this box without "Battery Optimized Mode" as SpeedStep
> > calls it. on Linux I did that with a simple tool called speedstep.
> > I've seen autospeedstep from Fritz Ganter which seems to use ACPI,
> > dunno how that compares to cpufreqd.
>
> Hmm. Maybe the 8100 has working speedstep, then. I'd suggest you see
> if disabling just the APM idle calls, but leaving speedstep and
> cpufreq on makes the noise.
as time permits. didn't mess around with ACPI or CpuFreq before.
> I have had no success whatever with ACPI on an i8000, but again an
> 8100 may be different.
may be, but for now somehow 2.5.69 segfaults in /etc/init.d/pcmcia :(
could be the PCMCIA changes I read in the -69 changelog
quote: "don't unload PCMCIA"
ok, it happened while loading.
anyway, waiting for -70 or some -bk* patchset that fixes PCMCIA up
any PCMCIA fixes already available in linus -bk?
does CpuFreq depend on ACPI ? just in case i8k1 doesn't have proper
ACPI support.
> >
> > anyway, this laptop is not-so-nice anyway, I'm just happy I didn't
> > buy it but my employer did ;)
>
> Same here, and I mostly agree. Good price for such a nice screen,
> though (I have the 1600x1200 15" screen).
yep.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread[parent not found: <200305120620.h4C6K64j061741@ns.indranet.co.nz>]
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
[not found] ` <200305120620.h4C6K64j061741@ns.indranet.co.nz>
@ 2003-05-12 20:11 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-13 6:20 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Andrew McGregor @ 2003-05-12 20:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: linux-kernel
--On Monday, 12 May 2003 8:17 a.m. +0200 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
<tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
> one thing none of you most probably wants to hear:
> if this "APM idle calls" is that "HLT" stuff, then I have to tell you
> that on win32 I had not such problems while using the CpuIdle tool.
> sorry.
No, HLT on idle is always on in Linux. APM idle is a separate feature,
which Windows never did (although Windows does do the equivalent thing with
ACPI).
> any PCMCIA fixes already available in linus -bk?
I don't know.
>
> does CpuFreq depend on ACPI ? just in case i8k1 doesn't have proper
> ACPI support.
No, it doesn't depend on ACPI.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-12 20:11 ` Andrew McGregor
@ 2003-05-13 6:20 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-13 6:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew McGregor; +Cc: linux-kernel
On Tue, 13 May 2003 08:11:40 +1200
Andrew McGregor <andrew@indranet.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> --On Monday, 12 May 2003 8:17 a.m. +0200 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
> <tuncer.ayaz@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
> > one thing none of you most probably wants to hear:
> > if this "APM idle calls" is that "HLT" stuff, then I have to tell
> > you that on win32 I had not such problems while using the CpuIdle
> > tool. sorry.
>
> No, HLT on idle is always on in Linux. APM idle is a separate
> feature, which Windows never did (although Windows does do the
> equivalent thing with ACPI).
>
>
> > any PCMCIA fixes already available in linus -bk?
>
> I don't know.
>
> >
> > does CpuFreq depend on ACPI ? just in case i8k1 doesn't have proper
> > ACPI support.
>
> No, it doesn't depend on ACPI.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
> linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
ok, so I'm unsubscribing now from LKML, as my problem seems to be
fixed in some way or other.
thanks to all of you for your assistance.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-11 11:28 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-11 13:03 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-11 20:48 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-12 0:41 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-13 12:43 ` Troels Walsted Hansen
2 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Valdis.Kletnieks @ 2003-05-11 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew McGregor; +Cc: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz, linux-kernel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1187 bytes --]
On Sun, 11 May 2003 23:28:25 +1200, Andrew McGregor <andrew@indranet.co.nz> said:
> cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
> *internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises when APM
> tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway, without making
> noise, so linux need not.
Dell Latitude C840 (1.6G Pentium4 Mobile) has the "power supplies buzz at 1Khz
on APM idle" symptom too. I haven't checked the ACPI side of the fence yet, nor
have I gotten brave enough to try the cpufreq and speedstep stuff.
Even *more* bizarre, there's "something odd" done by the seti@home client
(which usually causes 100% CPU use and thus silence) several minutes into a
workunit that causes the noise to change frequencies - it will start down
around 500hz, sweep up to 1Khz (taking about 2 seconds to do so), and repeat
(so the buzzing is exhibiting a sawtooth wave). I'm not seeing any paging
or swapping or I/O, so I'm wondering if it's some code walking through a large
array with strides 1/2/4/8/16 (like an FFT) causing different cache hit ratios,
and thus different power consumption patterns while it's stuck on a L1/L2
cache miss.....
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-11 20:48 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
@ 2003-05-12 0:41 ` Andrew McGregor
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Andrew McGregor @ 2003-05-12 0:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Valdis.Kletnieks; +Cc: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz, linux-kernel
--On Sunday, 11 May 2003 4:48 p.m. -0400 Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2003 23:28:25 +1200, Andrew McGregor
> <andrew@indranet.co.nz> said:
>
>> cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
>> *internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises when APM
>> tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway, without making
>> noise, so linux need not.
>
> Dell Latitude C840 (1.6G Pentium4 Mobile) has the "power supplies buzz at
> 1Khz on APM idle" symptom too. I haven't checked the ACPI side of the
> fence yet, nor have I gotten brave enough to try the cpufreq and
> speedstep stuff.
AFAIK Speedstep should always work on P4M systems, so it's worth a try.
>
> Even *more* bizarre, there's "something odd" done by the seti@home client
> (which usually causes 100% CPU use and thus silence) several minutes into
> a workunit that causes the noise to change frequencies - it will start
> down around 500hz, sweep up to 1Khz (taking about 2 seconds to do so),
> and repeat (so the buzzing is exhibiting a sawtooth wave). I'm not
> seeing any paging or swapping or I/O, so I'm wondering if it's some code
> walking through a large array with strides 1/2/4/8/16 (like an FFT)
> causing different cache hit ratios, and thus different power consumption
> patterns while it's stuck on a L1/L2 cache miss.....
>
That's pretty bizzarre, I agree :-)
Probably it's an autocorrelation with a sliding offset. I'd guess that the
reason the buzz starts at 500Hz and sweeps up is that if the frequency is
below 500Hz you don't hear it. Maybe the RAM starts sucking more power as
the cache hit ratio drops...
Andrew
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-11 11:28 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-11 13:03 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-11 20:48 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
@ 2003-05-13 12:43 ` Troels Walsted Hansen
2003-05-13 12:50 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Troels Walsted Hansen @ 2003-05-13 12:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew McGregor; +Cc: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz, linux-kernel
Andrew McGregor wrote:
> Try this (which will make no difference to the effectiveness of APM on
> this machine):
>
>> CONFIG_PM=y
>>
>> CONFIG_APM=y
>> CONFIG_APM_DO_ENABLE=n
>> CONFIG_APM_CPU_IDLE=n
>> CONFIG_APM_DISPLAY_BLANK=y
>> CONFIG_APM_REAL_MODE_POWER_OFF=y
>>
>> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ=n
>> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_TABLE=n
>>
>> CONFIG_X86_SPEEDSTEP=n
>
>
> Reasoning:
> cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
> *internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises when APM
> tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway, without making
> noise, so linux need not.
My Dell Latitude C600 shows the exact same problem. I noticed it after
upgrading to from RH7.x to RH8 with kernel 2.4.18-27.8.0. I believe this
kernel is customized by RH to use HZ=500 or something in that region.
With your analysis of the problem I was able to remove the noise by
using the "apm=idle-threshold=100" parameter on the kernel commandline.
This turns off APM idle calls without requiring kernel recompilation.
Using the "i8k" kernel module, I have verified that the temperature of
the CPU is unchanged with APM idle turned off. I have not tried to
measure power consumption or battery use.
Thanks for the tip!
--
Troels Walsted Hansen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-13 12:43 ` Troels Walsted Hansen
@ 2003-05-13 12:50 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-13 12:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Troels Walsted Hansen; +Cc: linux-kernel
> Andrew McGregor wrote:
> > Try this (which will make no difference to the effectiveness of APM on
> > this machine):
> >
> >> CONFIG_PM=y
> >>
> >> CONFIG_APM=y
> >> CONFIG_APM_DO_ENABLE=n
> >> CONFIG_APM_CPU_IDLE=n
> >> CONFIG_APM_DISPLAY_BLANK=y
> >> CONFIG_APM_REAL_MODE_POWER_OFF=y
> >>
> >> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ=n
> >> CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_TABLE=n
> >>
> >> CONFIG_X86_SPEEDSTEP=n
> >
> >
> > Reasoning:
> > cpufreq and speedstep don't work on Dell P3 laptops anyway, and the
> > *internal power supplies* of the i8x00 series make wierd noises when APM
>
> > tries to idle the CPU. The board will do this anyway, without making
> > noise, so linux need not.
>
> My Dell Latitude C600 shows the exact same problem. I noticed it after
> upgrading to from RH7.x to RH8 with kernel 2.4.18-27.8.0. I believe this
> kernel is customized by RH to use HZ=500 or something in that region.
>
> With your analysis of the problem I was able to remove the noise by
> using the "apm=idle-threshold=100" parameter on the kernel commandline.
> This turns off APM idle calls without requiring kernel recompilation.
>
> Using the "i8k" kernel module, I have verified that the temperature of
> the CPU is unchanged with APM idle turned off. I have not tried to
> measure power consumption or battery use.
so, cool no need to turn that on at all then.
--> no kernel bug, just a case of bad internel psu inside an overpriced
laptop :D
> Thanks for the tip!
no problem. actually, I'm glad the thread I've started did help you
and also myself to understand the problem.
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <20030510154639.02DDC32C9@marauder.googgun.com>]
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
[not found] <20030510154639.02DDC32C9@marauder.googgun.com>
@ 2003-05-10 15:52 ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 16:04 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Ahmed Masud @ 2003-05-10 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz; +Cc: alan, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
> On Sat, 10 May 2003 11:39:12 -0400 (EDT)
> Ahmed Masud <masud@googgun.com> wrote:
>
> can't say whether there is an internal speaker it could come
> from. source of sound is right beneath the keyboard,
> and creating load aka moving an x11 window around produces
> funny patterns --> no high tone, it almost disappears,
> but just low-volume sound reacting to when I move the
> window around.
> for a non-hardware-expert this is strange stuff.
>
I think your keyboard may have a stuck key *grin*.
Suggest the following:
1. remove keyboard from computer, to see if that stops the sound.
2. remove mouse from computer to see if that stops the sound. (ps/2 mice
can be silly)
if neither then we can say you have an odd bug.
Ahmed.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 15:52 ` Ahmed Masud
@ 2003-05-10 16:04 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 18:33 ` Jos Hulzink
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 16:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ahmed Masud; +Cc: alan, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 11:52:39 -0400 (EDT)
Ahmed Masud <masud@googgun.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 10 May 2003, Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 10 May 2003 11:39:12 -0400 (EDT)
> > Ahmed Masud <masud@googgun.com> wrote:
> >
> > can't say whether there is an internal speaker it could come
> > from. source of sound is right beneath the keyboard,
> > and creating load aka moving an x11 window around produces
> > funny patterns --> no high tone, it almost disappears,
> > but just low-volume sound reacting to when I move the
> > window around.
> > for a non-hardware-expert this is strange stuff.
> >
>
> I think your keyboard may have a stuck key *grin*.
>
> Suggest the following:
>
> 1. remove keyboard from computer, to see if that stops the sound.
> 2. remove mouse from computer to see if that stops the sound. (ps/2
> mice can be silly)
>
> if neither then we can say you have an odd bug.
dunno how to remove builtin keyboard but plugging out externel ps/2
mouse doesn't change a thing. but pluggin it in again makes the
sound stop for .5sec and start again after that period.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 16:04 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
@ 2003-05-10 18:33 ` Jos Hulzink
2003-05-10 16:46 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Jos Hulzink @ 2003-05-10 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz, Ahmed Masud; +Cc: alan, linux-kernel
On Saturday 10 May 2003 18:04, Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz wrote:
> On Sat, 10 May 2003 11:52:39 -0400 (EDT)
> dunno how to remove builtin keyboard but plugging out externel ps/2
> mouse doesn't change a thing. but pluggin it in again makes the
> sound stop for .5sec and start again after that period.
Hmzz. then the stuck key option might actually be not so stoopid. Try hitting
all keys a few times, to see if that helps, otherwise you'll habe to open the
thing and unplug the keyboard cable....
Jos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 18:33 ` Jos Hulzink
@ 2003-05-10 16:46 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jos Hulzink; +Cc: masud, linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 20:33:26 +0200
Jos Hulzink <josh@stack.nl> wrote:
> On Saturday 10 May 2003 18:04, Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz wrote:
> > On Sat, 10 May 2003 11:52:39 -0400 (EDT)
> > dunno how to remove builtin keyboard but plugging out externel ps/2
> > mouse doesn't change a thing. but pluggin it in again makes the
> > sound stop for .5sec and start again after that period.
>
> Hmzz. then the stuck key option might actually be not so stoopid. Try
> hitting all keys a few times, to see if that helps, otherwise you'll
> habe to open the thing and unplug the keyboard cable....
you don't expect me to plug in/out the builtin keyboard
everytime I reboot, do you.
this does not happen with 2.4 and possibly some older
2.5 version too (a guess).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
@ 2003-05-10 19:46 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-10 20:06 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Chuck Ebbert @ 2003-05-10 19:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz; +Cc: linux-kernel, jamie
Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz wrote:
> btw, I'm not 100% sure anymore now running 2.4 whether I really
> heard the same noise just quiet. hard to differentiate and also
> doesn't matter from my view as it doesn't annoy like the
> 2.5 noise effect.
> --> if it's the same noise, it would be ok, as you don't hear it
> normally sitting in front of the box, but running 2.5 is not
> nice with that high-pitched tone.
1000 Hz clock in 2.5 vs. 100 Hz in 2.4 ????
I bet that's it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-10 19:46 Chuck Ebbert
@ 2003-05-10 20:06 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-10 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chuck Ebbert; +Cc: linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 15:46:58 -0400
Chuck Ebbert <76306.1226@compuserve.com> wrote:
> Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz wrote:
>
> > btw, I'm not 100% sure anymore now running 2.4 whether I really
> > heard the same noise just quiet. hard to differentiate and also
> > doesn't matter from my view as it doesn't annoy like the
> > 2.5 noise effect.
> > --> if it's the same noise, it would be ok, as you don't hear it
> > normally sitting in front of the box, but running 2.5 is not
> > nice with that high-pitched tone.
>
> 1000 Hz clock in 2.5 vs. 100 Hz in 2.4 ????
>
> I bet that's it.
first, as you see in my other reply to Xavier Bestel disabling
"apm idle call" fixed the problem, it seems, but I didn't want
to disable those calls because of thermal reasons.
no matter what frequency it runs at I still wonder what that sound
is anyway. maybe some DELL engineers reading this could provide us
with some insight. fixing symptoms is one thing, knowing the reason
and background info much more important to me.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
@ 2003-05-11 2:28 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-11 19:27 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Chuck Ebbert @ 2003-05-11 2:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tuncer M "zayamut" Ayaz; +Cc: linux-kernel
> first, as you see in my other reply to Xavier Bestel disabling
> "apm idle call" fixed the problem, it seems, but I didn't want
> to disable those calls because of thermal reasons.
Maybe you could set 2.5 to run at 100 Hz? I don't know
if that's possible, but it could let you test if that's what
makes the noise so much more annoying.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100
2003-05-11 2:28 Chuck Ebbert
@ 2003-05-11 19:27 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz @ 2003-05-11 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chuck Ebbert; +Cc: linux-kernel
On Sat, 10 May 2003 22:28:10 -0400
Chuck Ebbert <76306.1226@compuserve.com> wrote:
> > first, as you see in my other reply to Xavier Bestel disabling
> > "apm idle call" fixed the problem, it seems, but I didn't want
> > to disable those calls because of thermal reasons.
>
> Maybe you could set 2.5 to run at 100 Hz? I don't know
> if that's possible, but it could let you test if that's what
> makes the noise so much more annoying.
yep that is true, tried 2.4 with "APM idle calls" enabled and
there was that noise - just at 100hz :D
would be interesting to know how many laptops have such issues.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-05-13 12:38 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 33+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-05-10 13:57 2.5.69 strange high tone on DELL Inspiron 8100 Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 13:59 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-10 15:07 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 15:28 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 15:39 ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 15:46 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 16:25 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-05-10 16:51 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 17:35 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 17:47 ` Xavier Bestel
2003-05-10 20:06 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 20:23 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 21:13 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-11 10:50 ` Dumitru Ciobarcianu
2003-05-11 13:11 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-11 11:28 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-11 13:03 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-12 0:34 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-12 6:17 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
[not found] ` <200305120620.h4C6K64j061741@ns.indranet.co.nz>
2003-05-12 20:11 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-13 6:20 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-11 20:48 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-12 0:41 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-05-13 12:43 ` Troels Walsted Hansen
2003-05-13 12:50 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
[not found] <20030510154639.02DDC32C9@marauder.googgun.com>
2003-05-10 15:52 ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 16:04 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 18:33 ` Jos Hulzink
2003-05-10 16:46 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-10 19:46 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-10 20:06 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
2003-05-11 2:28 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-11 19:27 ` Tuncer M zayamut Ayaz
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