From: Jason Gunthorpe <jgunthorpe@obsidianresearch.com>
To: James Bottomley <jejb@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Cc: "Fuchs, Andreas" <andreas.fuchs@sit.fraunhofer.de>,
"linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org"
<linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
"tpmdd-devel@lists.sourceforge.net"
<tpmdd-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
open list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [tpmdd-devel] [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 12:20:25 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170105192025.GB12587@obsidianresearch.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1483641223.2515.62.camel@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:33:43AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> > A combo ioctl that could setup the session, issue an operation in it
> > and then delete the session, for instance.
>
> This would work for encryption or HMAC sessions, but probably not for
> policy sessions, because they can have an arbitrarily large command
> sequence to construct them.
I'd rather give up features (eg policy sessions, if necessary) for the
unpriv fd than give up security of the unpriv fd.
We always have the out that special stuff can go down the priv path.
> The other issue we're likely to run into if we do it this way is
> delayed error reporting.
Not sure I follow.
> How about a more traditional approach which would be leasing (basically
> what we use for NFS). Any application opening a session would have
Doesn't this just change the DOS vector? Now the attacker has to delay
execution of TPM commands long enough to force session leases to time
out. That isn't too hard to do, asking the TPM to make a RSA key can
take seconds, for instance.
Jason
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jason Gunthorpe <jgunthorpe-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
To: James Bottomley <jejb-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
Cc: "tpmdd-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org"
<tpmdd-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>,
"linux-security-module-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org"
<linux-security-module-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
open list <linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 12:20:25 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170105192025.GB12587@obsidianresearch.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1483641223.2515.62.camel-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:33:43AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> > A combo ioctl that could setup the session, issue an operation in it
> > and then delete the session, for instance.
>
> This would work for encryption or HMAC sessions, but probably not for
> policy sessions, because they can have an arbitrarily large command
> sequence to construct them.
I'd rather give up features (eg policy sessions, if necessary) for the
unpriv fd than give up security of the unpriv fd.
We always have the out that special stuff can go down the priv path.
> The other issue we're likely to run into if we do it this way is
> delayed error reporting.
Not sure I follow.
> How about a more traditional approach which would be leasing (basically
> what we use for NFS). Any application opening a session would have
Doesn't this just change the DOS vector? Now the attacker has to delay
execution of TPM commands long enough to force session leases to time
out. That isn't too hard to do, asking the TPM to make a RSA key can
take seconds, for instance.
Jason
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-01-05 19:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 150+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-01-02 13:22 [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 1/4] tpm: migrate struct tpm_buf to struct tpm_chip Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 21:01 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-02 21:01 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 0:57 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 19:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 19:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 12:29 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 12:29 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 2/4] tpm: validate TPM 2.0 commands Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
[not found] ` <20170102132213.22880-3-jarkko.sakkinen-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-04 18:04 ` Stefan Berger
2017-01-04 18:19 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-04 18:19 ` James Bottomley
[not found] ` <1483553976.2561.38.camel-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-04 18:59 ` Stefan Berger
[not found] ` <OF3FD1DF4F.FB87C3F2-ON0025809E.00682E9B-8525809E.00684A8A-8eTO7WVQ4XIsd+ienQ86orlN3bxYEBpz@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-04 19:05 ` James Bottomley
[not found] ` <1483556735.2561.53.camel-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-04 19:22 ` Stefan Berger
[not found] ` <OFDFABBD23.E5E1F639-ON0025809E.006924C4-8525809E.006A7568-8eTO7WVQ4XIsd+ienQ86orlN3bxYEBpz@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-09 22:17 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
[not found] ` <20170109221700.q7tq362rd6r23d5b-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-09 22:39 ` Stefan Berger
2017-01-04 18:44 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 18:44 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 3/4] tpm: export tpm2_flush_context_cmd Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` [PATCH RFC 4/4] tpm: add the infrastructure for TPM space for TPM 2.0 Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 13:22 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 21:09 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-02 21:09 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 0:37 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 18:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 18:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 12:43 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 12:43 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 19:16 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 19:16 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 12:45 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 12:45 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
[not found] ` <20170102132213.22880-5-jarkko.sakkinen-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-04 17:50 ` Stefan Berger
2017-01-09 22:11 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 16:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager James Bottomley
2017-01-02 19:33 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 19:33 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-02 21:40 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-02 21:40 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-03 5:26 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-03 13:41 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 13:41 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 16:14 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-03 16:14 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-03 18:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 18:36 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 19:14 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 19:14 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 19:34 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-03 19:34 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-03 21:54 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 21:54 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 12:58 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 12:58 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 16:55 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 16:55 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 5:47 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Andy Lutomirski
2017-01-04 13:00 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 13:51 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 13:51 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 16:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-03 16:36 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-03 18:40 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-03 21:47 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 22:21 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-03 22:21 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-03 23:20 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 23:20 ` Jason Gunthorpe
[not found] ` <20170103214702.GC29656-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-03 22:22 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-03 22:39 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-03 22:39 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-04 0:17 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 0:29 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-04 0:29 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-04 0:56 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 0:56 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 12:50 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 12:50 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 14:53 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-04 14:53 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-04 18:31 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 18:31 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 18:57 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-04 18:57 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-04 19:24 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-04 19:24 ` Jason Gunthorpe
[not found] ` <20170104001732.GB32185-ePGOBjL8dl3ta4EC/59zMFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-10 18:55 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-04 12:48 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-04 12:48 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
[not found] ` <1483461370.2464.19.camel-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-03 22:18 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-03 21:32 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 21:32 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-03 22:03 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-05 15:52 ` Fuchs, Andreas
2017-01-05 15:52 ` Fuchs, Andreas
2017-01-05 17:27 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-05 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-05 18:06 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-05 18:06 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-06 8:43 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Andreas Fuchs
2017-01-06 8:43 ` Andreas Fuchs
[not found] ` <410e3045-58dc-5415-30c1-c86eb916b6c8-iXjGqz/onsDSyEMIgutvibNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org>
2017-01-10 18:57 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-05 18:33 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-05 18:33 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-05 19:20 ` Jason Gunthorpe [this message]
2017-01-05 19:20 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-05 19:55 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-05 19:55 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-05 22:21 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-05 22:21 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-05 22:58 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-05 22:58 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-05 23:50 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-05 23:50 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-06 0:36 ` [tpmdd-devel] " James Bottomley
2017-01-06 0:36 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-06 8:59 ` Andreas Fuchs
2017-01-06 8:59 ` Andreas Fuchs
2017-01-06 19:10 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-06 19:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-06 19:02 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-06 19:02 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-10 19:03 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-10 19:03 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-09 22:39 ` [tpmdd-devel] " Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-09 22:39 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-11 10:03 ` Andreas Fuchs
2017-01-11 10:03 ` Andreas Fuchs
2017-01-04 16:12 Dr. Greg Wettstein
2017-01-04 16:12 ` Dr. Greg Wettstein
2017-01-09 23:16 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-10 19:29 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-10 19:29 ` Ken Goldman
2017-01-11 11:36 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-10 20:05 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-11 10:00 ` Andreas Fuchs
2017-01-11 18:03 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-11 18:27 ` Stefan Berger
2017-01-11 19:18 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-11 11:34 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2017-01-11 15:39 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-11 17:56 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-01-11 18:25 ` James Bottomley
2017-01-11 19:04 ` Jason Gunthorpe
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