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From: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>
Cc: Rob Landley <rob@landley.net>,
	andersen@codepoet.org,
	"Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hps@intermeta.de>,
	Andre Hedrick <andre@linux-ide.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: freed_symbols [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]]
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:23:34 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1065349414.3157.8.camel@imladris.demon.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20031005010521.GA21138@work.bitmover.com>

On Sat, 2003-10-04 at 18:05 -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> Yeah, but Linus stating his position about a license doesn't mean diddly.
> The kernel is licensed under a license, that license is a contract that
> people enter into.  To the extent that it is enforceable, that license
> determines what happens, Linus can't retroactively decide to interpret
> the license a different way.  The license can't enforce things which
> the law doesn't allow.  In particular, the law understands a concept of
> a boundary. 

I agree. Linus' comments on the matter, except of course his original
exception for userspace which has been there since 1993, are an
irrelevant _interpretation_.

All that is relevant is the meaning of the original licence.

>  And Linus' comments notwithstanding, modules are a pretty
> clear boundary.  Even the GPL acks this, it knows that anything which
> is clearly separable is not covered.

This statement is in conflict with the presence of the exception for
userspace which precedes the text of the GPL in the Linux COPYING file.

The presence of the exception makes it clear that, without such
exception, userspace would have been considered to be a derived work in
the terminology of the original licence. Otherwise, the exception would
of course have been redundant.

If userspace would be considered a derived work without explicit
exception, then so are kernel modules. They have no such explicit
exception, and are hence not permitted.

I'll grant you that Linus' witterings in public on the matter would
probably prevent him _personally_ from bringing suit against a
distributor of binary-only modules, on the principle of equitable
estoppel.

That doesn't stop me or anyone else from doing so though.

-- 
dwmw2



  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-10-05 10:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <uess.1w0.9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <ujV3.1uP.13@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-09-10 21:52   ` People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model] Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-10 22:26     ` David Schwartz
2003-09-10 22:34       ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-11  1:35         ` David Schwartz
2003-09-11 13:30           ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-09-11 18:39             ` David Schwartz
2003-09-11 18:45               ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-13 17:52                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 23:54                   ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-13 17:34             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14 10:55               ` Sean Estabrooks
2003-09-11 14:36           ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13 17:42             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-12 20:58           ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-12 21:47             ` Matt D. Robinson
2003-09-12 22:31               ` Alan Cox
2003-09-12 23:26                 ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13  0:29                   ` Matt D. Robinson
2003-09-13 17:42                     ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13  5:38                   ` jw schultz
2003-09-13 17:44                   ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13 18:19             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 20:01               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 23:17                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  1:57             ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  2:40               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  3:42                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  3:36                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  4:37                     ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  4:58                       ` freed_symbols [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]] Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  5:39                         ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  5:32                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  6:41                             ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-14  6:50                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  7:10                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  8:08                                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-15  0:17                                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-09-15  5:57                                     ` Erik Andersen
2003-09-15  6:14                                       ` Nick Piggin
2003-10-05  0:52                                       ` Rob Landley
2003-10-05  1:05                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05  2:34                                           ` viro
2003-10-05  3:45                                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 10:24                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 13:56                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 14:14                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 10:23                                           ` David Woodhouse [this message]
2003-10-05 11:32                                             ` David Lang
2003-10-05 13:37                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05  6:40                                         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05  7:39                                           ` viro
2003-10-05 18:27                                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 19:21                                             ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:03                                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:14                                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:34                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:43                                                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-06  1:22                                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-06  1:37                                                       ` David Lang
2003-10-06  1:51                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-05 19:32                                             ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-10-05 19:47                                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 20:38                                                 ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-05 20:46                                                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-05 19:54                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-09-14  8:45                                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-09-15  0:16                         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-09-15  0:27                           ` Justin Cormack
2003-09-14 21:40                       ` People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model] David Schwartz
2003-09-15  8:06                 ` David S. Miller
2003-09-14  2:51               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-14  3:05               ` GPL == DMCA [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]] Andre Hedrick
2003-10-29 22:42             ` People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model] David Schwartz
2003-10-29 23:11               ` David S. Miller
2003-10-30  0:10               ` David Schwartz
2003-09-11  1:39         ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13 17:11         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 21:11           ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-13 21:19             ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13 21:12               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-13 22:09               ` Alan Cox
2003-09-13 22:30                 ` David Schwartz
2003-09-14  1:16                   ` Andrew Pimlott
2003-09-15 15:26                   ` Martin Schlemmer
2003-09-13 23:00                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-12 21:04       ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-12 21:17         ` David Schwartz
2003-09-15 18:24           ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-15 20:17             ` David Schwartz
2003-09-13 18:09         ` Andre Hedrick
     [not found] <vyRY.6te.13@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <vzkY.7cC.7@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-09-14  9:16   ` freed_symbols [Re: People, not GPL [was: Re: Driver Model]] Pascal Schmidt
2003-09-14 17:09     ` Stan Bubrouski
     [not found] <fa.grj6i7d.lmorqn@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.n320lec.1p4i0gc@ifi.uio.no>
2003-10-05 16:44   ` walt
     [not found] <Dnwo.1ew.15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <DnPL.3XB.11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <DsvX.3yN.1@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-10-06 18:28     ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-10-06 18:38       ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-06 21:29         ` Olivier Galibert
2003-10-07  0:56           ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-07  8:40         ` David Woodhouse
2003-10-07  8:56           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 10:13             ` Roman Zippel
2003-10-07 10:33               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 10:44                 ` Roman Zippel
2003-10-07 11:25                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 14:03                     ` Roman Zippel
2003-10-07 19:09                       ` David S. Miller
2003-10-07  8:58           ` David S. Miller
2003-10-07 14:16           ` Larry McVoy
2003-10-07 14:48             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-10-07  8:28       ` David Woodhouse
     [not found] <DIre.Cy.15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <DIre.Cy.17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <DIre.Cy.19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <DIre.Cy.13@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <DIAQ.2Hh.5@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-10-06 18:56         ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-10-06 19:09           ` David Lang
2003-10-06 20:08           ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-10-07 10:49             ` Pavel Machek
2003-10-10 12:14               ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-10-10 12:48                 ` David S. Miller
2003-10-10 13:27                 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-10-10 12:55               ` Jamie Lokier
2003-10-10 13:07                 ` David S. Miller
2003-10-10 13:28                   ` Jamie Lokier
2003-10-06 22:46           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-06 23:01             ` Jamie Lokier
2003-10-07  0:20             ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-10-07  2:31               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-10-07 10:03 Pascal Schmidt

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