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From: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Christopher Friesen <cfriesen@nortel.com>,
	torvalds@osdl.org, akpm@osdl.org, hch@infradead.org,
	matthew@wil.cx, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:08:27 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1134558507.2894.22.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1134558188.25663.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 11:03 +0000, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Mer, 2005-12-14 at 11:29 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
> > > >      But this means that the current usages all have to be carefully audited,
> > > >      and sometimes that unobvious.
> > > 
> > > Only if you insist on replacing them immediately. If you submit a
> > > *small* patch which just adds the new mutexes then a series of small
> > > patches can gradually convert code where mutexes are better. 
> > 
> > this unfortunately is not very realistic in practice... 
> 
> Strange because it is how most such work has been done in the past, from
> the big kernel lock to the scsi core rewrite.

1) the BKL change hasn't finished, and we're 5 years down the line. API
changes done gradual tend to take forever in practice, esp if there's no
"compile" incentive for people to fix things. 

2) the scsi rewrite was a major functional change. that's different from
a basically pure API change (split). Splitting functional changes to one
part of the kernel up into a sequence is very good. THat's different
though: even in the scsi change, API changes that went outside the scsi
core into the drivers were mostly done in one bang (not all of them, the
ones that weren't ended up being rather painful)


>  You also forgot to attach
> a reason you think it isnt realistic ?
> 
that was in a follow up email



  reply	other threads:[~2005-12-14 11:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 261+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-12-12 23:45 [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 2/19] MUTEX: i386 arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 8/19] MUTEX: Drivers I-K changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 7/19] MUTEX: Drivers F-H changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 6/19] MUTEX: Drivers A-E changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 3/19] MUTEX: x86_64 arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 5/19] MUTEX: Core kernel changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 4/19] MUTEX: FRV arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 15/19] MUTEX: Second set of include changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 10/19] MUTEX: Drivers N-P changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 9/19] MUTEX: Drivers L-M changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 13/19] MUTEX: Filesystem changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 14/19] MUTEX: First set of include changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 12/19] MUTEX: Drivers T-Z changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 11/19] MUTEX: Drivers Q-S changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 18/19] MUTEX: Security changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 17/19] MUTEX: Networking changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 16/19] MUTEX: IPC changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 19/19] MUTEX: Sound changes David Howells
2005-12-13  0:13 ` [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  0:19 ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  0:19 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  7:54   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  7:58     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  8:42       ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  8:49         ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:01           ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:01             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:02             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13 10:07               ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:11                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 10:15                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:25                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13 10:25                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-14 10:46               ` Russell King
2005-12-13  9:05             ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:15               ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:15                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:24                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:44                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:44                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:49                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 10:28                   ` Andreas Schwab
2005-12-13 10:30                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 12:33                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 22:18               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-12-13 22:25                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 22:32                   ` Adrian Bunk
2005-12-13  9:11             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:04           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:13             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:11             ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:19               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13 10:27                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-15  4:53                 ` Miles Bader
2005-12-15  5:05                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  9:09           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:21             ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 16:16           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-13 21:56             ` Using C99 in the kernel was " Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 23:05               ` Al Viro
2005-12-13 23:41                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:03         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:14           ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:14             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:21             ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13 10:31             ` drivers/scsi/sd.c gcc-2.95.3 Alexey Dobriyan
2005-12-13  8:00     ` [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:03       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:09         ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:34           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 14:33             ` Mark Lord
2005-12-13 14:45               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:37           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:19         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:02     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:39       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:00         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 17:40           ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-13 18:34           ` David Howells
2005-12-13 22:31             ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-13 22:31               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-14 11:02             ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:12             ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:18               ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 12:35               ` David Howells
2005-12-14 12:35                 ` David Howells
2005-12-14 13:58                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-14 23:40                   ` Mark Lord
2005-12-14 23:54                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 13:41                       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 14:56                         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-15 15:52                           ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 16:50                             ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-15 20:53                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 15:55                           ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:22                             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-15 16:22                               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-15 16:28                             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 17:04                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-15 17:09                               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 17:17                               ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:51                             ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:56                             ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 16:56                               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 17:28                             ` David Howells
2005-12-15 17:48                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 18:20                                 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 20:58                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 19:21                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 19:38                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 20:28                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 20:32                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2005-12-16 21:41                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 21:41                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:06                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 22:19                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:32                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 22:42                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 22:41                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:49                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 23:29                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-17  0:29                                                   ` Joe Korty
2005-12-17  1:00                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17  3:13                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-17  7:34                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17 23:43                                                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-18  0:05                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-12-18  0:21                                                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-18  1:25                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-22 12:27                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-12-19 16:08                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-22 12:40                                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-12-22 12:45                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-12-19 23:46                                                       ` Keith Owens
2005-12-15 14:41                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-14 23:57                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-14 23:57                       ` Mark Lord
2005-12-15  0:10                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-15  2:46                           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 15:53                           ` David Howells
2005-12-15 15:37                     ` David Howells
2005-12-15 19:28                       ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 19:28                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 20:18                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 21:28                           ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 22:02                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 10:45                         ` David Howells
2005-12-13  9:55     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  0:30 ` Arnd Bergmann
2005-12-13  0:57 ` Daniel Walker
2005-12-13  3:23   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13  2:57 ` Mark Lord
2005-12-13  3:17   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13  9:06   ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:54 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 10:13   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:34     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:37       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 12:47       ` Oliver Neukum
2005-12-13 13:09         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:13           ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 14:04             ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:24           ` Oliver Neukum
2005-12-14  1:00   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-14 10:54   ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:17     ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-14 11:46     ` David Howells
2005-12-14 21:23       ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 12:00       ` David Howells
2005-12-16 13:16         ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 15:53         ` David Howells
2005-12-16 23:41           ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 16:02         ` David Howells
2005-12-13 10:48 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 12:39   ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 10:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 11:23 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 11:24 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 13:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 11:34 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 13:05 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:15   ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 23:21     ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-13 13:32 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 14:00   ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 14:35   ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-13 14:44     ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13 14:59       ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-13 15:23   ` David Howells
2005-12-15  5:24     ` Miles Bader
2005-12-13 15:39   ` David Howells
2005-12-13 16:10     ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 10:29       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:03         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:03         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 11:08           ` Arjan van de Ven [this message]
2005-12-14 11:24             ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 11:35               ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-14 11:44                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:52                   ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-14 11:55                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:57                 ` David Howells
2005-12-14 12:19                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-16  1:54                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 11:02                   ` David Howells
2005-12-16 13:01                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 13:21                       ` Russell King
2005-12-16 13:41                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 13:46                         ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 14:31                           ` Russell King
2005-12-16 15:24                             ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 15:35                               ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 15:40                               ` Kyle Moffett
2005-12-16 15:49                             ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 15:46                           ` David Howells
2005-12-16 15:58                             ` Russell King
2005-12-17 15:57                       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-16 16:28                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 11:30                   ` David Howells
2005-12-16 16:33                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 16:33                       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:23                       ` David S. Miller
2005-12-16 22:38                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:53                           ` David S. Miller
2005-12-17  0:41                             ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17  7:10                               ` David S. Miller
2005-12-17  7:40                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17 17:22                                   ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17 17:19                                 ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17 22:38                             ` Richard Henderson
2005-12-17 23:05                               ` David S. Miller
2005-12-14 12:17                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-14 11:42               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14  8:31     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 20:04   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13 21:03 ` David Howells
2005-12-15 13:58 linux
2005-12-15 16:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 16:52   ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-15 17:23     ` Dick Streefland
2005-12-16 12:17     ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-17 10:59       ` Sander
2005-12-17 14:14         ` Douglas McNaught
2005-12-17 15:09           ` Sander
2005-12-19 10:44         ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-15 19:02   ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 19:09   ` linux
2005-12-15 19:52     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16  1:33       ` linux
2005-12-15 21:18     ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 20:52   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 17:45 Luck, Tony
2005-12-15 17:45 ` Luck, Tony
2005-12-15 18:00 ` David Howells
2005-12-15 18:48 ` James Bottomley
2005-12-15 20:38 ` Jeff Dike
2005-12-15 23:45   ` Stephen Rothwell
2005-12-16 12:49 linux
2005-12-16 15:24 ` David Howells
2005-12-16 18:03   ` linux

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