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From: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
Cc: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, Mark Lord <lkml@rtr.ca>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Paul Jackson <pj@sgi.com>,
	mingo@elte.hu, hch@infradead.org, akpm@osdl.org,
	arjan@infradead.org, matthew@wil.cx,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:53:48 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4691.1134662028@warthog.cambridge.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0512141840370.3292@g5.osdl.org>

Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org> wrote:

> Dammit, unless the pure mutex has a _huge_ performance advantage on major 
> architectures, we're not changing it.

Whilst it's true that the major archs are generally where the least advantage
will be seen, consider the following points:

 (1) The major archs are generally the ones where consuming a few extra bytes
     of kernel code so as to hold the slow paths for the mutexes would matter
     least.

 (2) The minor archs are where the performance gain would be most noticable
     because many of them only have unconditional state substitution
     capabilities (XCHG/TAS/SWAP/BSET), and no matter how much you may not
     care for them, they do matter.

     Having to use spinlocks and interrupt disablement in lieu of conditional
     state substitution (such as CMPXCHG) can cost quite a bit.

 (3) Mutex performance should in no way be slower on any arch than counting
     semaphores being used to do the same job. Now, admittedly, my first
     attempt was suboptimal for archs that have better-than-XCHG capabilities,
     but I've amended that with Ingo's help, just not released it yet.

> There's absolutely zero point. A counting semaphore is a perfectly fine
> mutex

But that isn't so in one particular case: debugging. A mutex would balk at a
double-release, but a counting semaphore will just silently let things go
wrong, because that's the nature of the beast.

> - the fact that it can _also_ be used to allow more than 1 user into a
> critical region and generally do other things is totally immaterial.

There are about a dozen such uses of counting semaphores in the kernel, and
they're mainly used as token/message counters.

> It's _extra_ stupid to re-use the names "down()" and "up()" on a 
> non-counting mutex, since then the names make zero sense at all. Use 
> "lock_mutex()" and "unlock_mutex()" or something, and don't break existing 
> code for no measurable gain.

Okay. Repurposing up(), down(), DECLARE_MUTEX() and init_MUTEX() had the major
benefit that the kernel required relatively few changes. The biggest problem
with doing a whole new mutex type with a new and different API is that
DECLARE_MUTEX and init_MUTEX are already taken... :-/

David

  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-12-15 15:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 261+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-12-12 23:45 [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 2/19] MUTEX: i386 arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 8/19] MUTEX: Drivers I-K changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 7/19] MUTEX: Drivers F-H changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 6/19] MUTEX: Drivers A-E changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 3/19] MUTEX: x86_64 arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 5/19] MUTEX: Core kernel changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 4/19] MUTEX: FRV arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 15/19] MUTEX: Second set of include changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 10/19] MUTEX: Drivers N-P changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 9/19] MUTEX: Drivers L-M changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 13/19] MUTEX: Filesystem changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 14/19] MUTEX: First set of include changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 12/19] MUTEX: Drivers T-Z changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 11/19] MUTEX: Drivers Q-S changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 18/19] MUTEX: Security changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 17/19] MUTEX: Networking changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 16/19] MUTEX: IPC changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 19/19] MUTEX: Sound changes David Howells
2005-12-13  0:13 ` [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  0:19 ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  0:19 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  7:54   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  7:58     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  8:42       ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  8:49         ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:01           ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:01             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:02             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13 10:07               ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:11                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 10:15                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:25                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13 10:25                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-14 10:46               ` Russell King
2005-12-13  9:05             ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:15               ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:15                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:24                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:44                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:44                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:49                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 10:28                   ` Andreas Schwab
2005-12-13 10:30                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 12:33                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 22:18               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-12-13 22:25                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 22:32                   ` Adrian Bunk
2005-12-13  9:11             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:04           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:13             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:11             ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:19               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13 10:27                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-15  4:53                 ` Miles Bader
2005-12-15  5:05                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  9:09           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:21             ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 16:16           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-13 21:56             ` Using C99 in the kernel was " Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 23:05               ` Al Viro
2005-12-13 23:41                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:03         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:14           ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:14             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:21             ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13 10:31             ` drivers/scsi/sd.c gcc-2.95.3 Alexey Dobriyan
2005-12-13  8:00     ` [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:03       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:09         ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:34           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 14:33             ` Mark Lord
2005-12-13 14:45               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:37           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:19         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:02     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:39       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:00         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 17:40           ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-13 18:34           ` David Howells
2005-12-13 22:31             ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-13 22:31               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-14 11:02             ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:12             ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:18               ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 12:35               ` David Howells
2005-12-14 12:35                 ` David Howells
2005-12-14 13:58                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-14 23:40                   ` Mark Lord
2005-12-14 23:54                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 13:41                       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 14:56                         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-15 15:52                           ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 16:50                             ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-15 20:53                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 15:55                           ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:22                             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-15 16:22                               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-15 16:28                             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 17:04                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-15 17:09                               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 17:17                               ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:51                             ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:56                             ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 16:56                               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 17:28                             ` David Howells
2005-12-15 17:48                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 18:20                                 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 20:58                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 19:21                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 19:38                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 20:28                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 20:32                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2005-12-16 21:41                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 21:41                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:06                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 22:19                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:32                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 22:42                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 22:41                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:49                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 23:29                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-17  0:29                                                   ` Joe Korty
2005-12-17  1:00                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17  3:13                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-17  7:34                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17 23:43                                                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-18  0:05                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-12-18  0:21                                                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-18  1:25                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-22 12:27                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-12-19 16:08                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-22 12:40                                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-12-22 12:45                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-12-19 23:46                                                       ` Keith Owens
2005-12-15 14:41                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-14 23:57                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-14 23:57                       ` Mark Lord
2005-12-15  0:10                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-15  2:46                           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 15:53                           ` David Howells [this message]
2005-12-15 15:37                     ` David Howells
2005-12-15 19:28                       ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 19:28                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 20:18                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 21:28                           ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 22:02                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 10:45                         ` David Howells
2005-12-13  9:55     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  0:30 ` Arnd Bergmann
2005-12-13  0:57 ` Daniel Walker
2005-12-13  3:23   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13  2:57 ` Mark Lord
2005-12-13  3:17   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13  9:06   ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:54 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 10:13   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:34     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:37       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 12:47       ` Oliver Neukum
2005-12-13 13:09         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:13           ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 14:04             ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:24           ` Oliver Neukum
2005-12-14  1:00   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-14 10:54   ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:17     ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-14 11:46     ` David Howells
2005-12-14 21:23       ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 12:00       ` David Howells
2005-12-16 13:16         ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 15:53         ` David Howells
2005-12-16 23:41           ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 16:02         ` David Howells
2005-12-13 10:48 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 12:39   ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 10:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 11:23 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 11:24 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 13:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 11:34 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 13:05 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:15   ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 23:21     ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-13 13:32 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 14:00   ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 14:35   ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-13 14:44     ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13 14:59       ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-13 15:23   ` David Howells
2005-12-15  5:24     ` Miles Bader
2005-12-13 15:39   ` David Howells
2005-12-13 16:10     ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 10:29       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:03         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:03         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 11:08           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:24             ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 11:35               ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-14 11:44                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:52                   ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-14 11:55                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:57                 ` David Howells
2005-12-14 12:19                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-16  1:54                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 11:02                   ` David Howells
2005-12-16 13:01                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 13:21                       ` Russell King
2005-12-16 13:41                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 13:46                         ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 14:31                           ` Russell King
2005-12-16 15:24                             ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 15:35                               ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 15:40                               ` Kyle Moffett
2005-12-16 15:49                             ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 15:46                           ` David Howells
2005-12-16 15:58                             ` Russell King
2005-12-17 15:57                       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-16 16:28                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 11:30                   ` David Howells
2005-12-16 16:33                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 16:33                       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:23                       ` David S. Miller
2005-12-16 22:38                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:53                           ` David S. Miller
2005-12-17  0:41                             ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17  7:10                               ` David S. Miller
2005-12-17  7:40                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17 17:22                                   ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17 17:19                                 ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17 22:38                             ` Richard Henderson
2005-12-17 23:05                               ` David S. Miller
2005-12-14 12:17                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-14 11:42               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14  8:31     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 20:04   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13 21:03 ` David Howells
2005-12-15 13:58 linux
2005-12-15 16:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 16:52   ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-15 17:23     ` Dick Streefland
2005-12-16 12:17     ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-17 10:59       ` Sander
2005-12-17 14:14         ` Douglas McNaught
2005-12-17 15:09           ` Sander
2005-12-19 10:44         ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-15 19:02   ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 19:09   ` linux
2005-12-15 19:52     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16  1:33       ` linux
2005-12-15 21:18     ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 20:52   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 17:45 Luck, Tony
2005-12-15 17:45 ` Luck, Tony
2005-12-15 18:00 ` David Howells
2005-12-15 18:48 ` James Bottomley
2005-12-15 20:38 ` Jeff Dike
2005-12-15 23:45   ` Stephen Rothwell
2005-12-16 12:49 linux
2005-12-16 15:24 ` David Howells
2005-12-16 18:03   ` linux

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