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From: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Christopher Friesen <cfriesen@nortel.com>,
	torvalds@osdl.org, akpm@osdl.org, hch@infradead.org,
	matthew@wil.cx, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:42:00 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1134560520.2894.27.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1134559470.25663.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 11:24 +0000, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Mer, 2005-12-14 at 12:08 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
> > 1) the BKL change hasn't finished, and we're 5 years down the line. API
> > changes done gradual tend to take forever in practice, esp if there's no
> > "compile" incentive for people to fix things. 
> 
> This isn't a "fix" however, its merely a performance tweak.

it's a conceptual API split that, if nothing else, declares intent and
usage pattern more specifically. Performance is just one of the angles.
Other angles are that it's possible to treat mutex users different (like
Ingo is doing in -rt, where you can temporary boost a mutex owner if the
mutex gets contended, other uses are better hold time metrics etc etc)

>  Drivers
> using the old API are not a problem because
> 
> a) The old API is needed long term for true counting sem users

this is skipping one bridge ;)
A counting semaphore is needed long term. API is up for debate in the
sense that it's not clear that a non-compile-time thing is the right
solution.

> Thats rather different to the BKL

BKL is different in that it's more work to do a conversion (eg the BKL
semantics are rather complex compared to normal spinlock / semaphore /
mutex semantics). So yes BKL is harder, and not really possible to do in
one go. Unlike these...
For BKL there was no choice. Here there is.




  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-12-14 11:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 261+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-12-12 23:45 [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 2/19] MUTEX: i386 arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 8/19] MUTEX: Drivers I-K changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 7/19] MUTEX: Drivers F-H changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 6/19] MUTEX: Drivers A-E changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 3/19] MUTEX: x86_64 arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 5/19] MUTEX: Core kernel changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 4/19] MUTEX: FRV arch mutex David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 15/19] MUTEX: Second set of include changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 10/19] MUTEX: Drivers N-P changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 9/19] MUTEX: Drivers L-M changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 13/19] MUTEX: Filesystem changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 14/19] MUTEX: First set of include changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 12/19] MUTEX: Drivers T-Z changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 11/19] MUTEX: Drivers Q-S changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 18/19] MUTEX: Security changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 17/19] MUTEX: Networking changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 16/19] MUTEX: IPC changes David Howells
2005-12-12 23:45 ` [PATCH 19/19] MUTEX: Sound changes David Howells
2005-12-13  0:13 ` [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  0:19 ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  0:19 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  7:54   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  7:58     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  8:42       ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  8:49         ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:01           ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:01             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:02             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13 10:07               ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:11                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 10:15                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:25                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13 10:25                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-14 10:46               ` Russell King
2005-12-13  9:05             ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:15               ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:15                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:24                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:44                   ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:44                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:49                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 10:28                   ` Andreas Schwab
2005-12-13 10:30                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 12:33                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 22:18               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-12-13 22:25                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 22:32                   ` Adrian Bunk
2005-12-13  9:11             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:04           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:13             ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:11             ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-13 10:19               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13 10:27                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-15  4:53                 ` Miles Bader
2005-12-15  5:05                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-13  9:09           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:21             ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 16:16           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-13 21:56             ` Using C99 in the kernel was " Andi Kleen
2005-12-13 23:05               ` Al Viro
2005-12-13 23:41                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:03         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:14           ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:14             ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-13  9:21             ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13 10:31             ` drivers/scsi/sd.c gcc-2.95.3 Alexey Dobriyan
2005-12-13  8:00     ` [PATCH 1/19] MUTEX: Introduce simple mutex implementation Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:03       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:09         ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-13  9:34           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 14:33             ` Mark Lord
2005-12-13 14:45               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:37           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  9:19         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13  9:02     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:39       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:00         ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 17:40           ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-13 18:34           ` David Howells
2005-12-13 22:31             ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-13 22:31               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-14 11:02             ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:12             ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:18               ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 12:35               ` David Howells
2005-12-14 12:35                 ` David Howells
2005-12-14 13:58                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-14 23:40                   ` Mark Lord
2005-12-14 23:54                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 13:41                       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 14:56                         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-15 15:52                           ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 16:50                             ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-15 20:53                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 15:55                           ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:22                             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-15 16:22                               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-12-15 16:28                             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 17:04                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-15 17:09                               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 17:17                               ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:51                             ` David Howells
2005-12-15 16:56                             ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 16:56                               ` Paul Jackson
2005-12-15 17:28                             ` David Howells
2005-12-15 17:48                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 18:20                                 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 20:58                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 19:21                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 19:38                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 20:28                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 20:32                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2005-12-16 21:41                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 21:41                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:06                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 22:19                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:32                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 22:42                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 22:41                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:49                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 23:29                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-17  0:29                                                   ` Joe Korty
2005-12-17  1:00                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17  3:13                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-17  7:34                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17 23:43                                                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-18  0:05                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-12-18  0:21                                                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-18  1:25                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-12-22 12:27                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-12-19 16:08                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-22 12:40                                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-12-22 12:45                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-12-19 23:46                                                       ` Keith Owens
2005-12-15 14:41                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-14 23:57                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-14 23:57                       ` Mark Lord
2005-12-15  0:10                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-15  2:46                           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 15:53                           ` David Howells
2005-12-15 15:37                     ` David Howells
2005-12-15 19:28                       ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 19:28                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 20:18                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-15 21:28                           ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-16 22:02                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-12-16 10:45                         ` David Howells
2005-12-13  9:55     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13  0:30 ` Arnd Bergmann
2005-12-13  0:57 ` Daniel Walker
2005-12-13  3:23   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13  2:57 ` Mark Lord
2005-12-13  3:17   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13  9:06   ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13  9:54 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 10:13   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:34     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 10:37       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 12:47       ` Oliver Neukum
2005-12-13 13:09         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:13           ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 14:04             ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:24           ` Oliver Neukum
2005-12-14  1:00   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-14 10:54   ` David Howells
2005-12-14 11:17     ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-14 11:46     ` David Howells
2005-12-14 21:23       ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 12:00       ` David Howells
2005-12-16 13:16         ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 15:53         ` David Howells
2005-12-16 23:41           ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 16:02         ` David Howells
2005-12-13 10:48 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 12:39   ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-13 10:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 11:23 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 11:24 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 13:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 11:34 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 13:05 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 13:15   ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 23:21     ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-13 13:32 ` David Howells
2005-12-13 14:00   ` Alan Cox
2005-12-13 14:35   ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-13 14:44     ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-13 14:59       ` Christopher Friesen
2005-12-13 15:23   ` David Howells
2005-12-15  5:24     ` Miles Bader
2005-12-13 15:39   ` David Howells
2005-12-13 16:10     ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 10:29       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:03         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:03         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 11:08           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:24             ` Alan Cox
2005-12-14 11:35               ` Andrew Morton
2005-12-14 11:44                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:52                   ` Andi Kleen
2005-12-14 11:55                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-12-14 11:57                 ` David Howells
2005-12-14 12:19                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2005-12-16  1:54                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 11:02                   ` David Howells
2005-12-16 13:01                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 13:21                       ` Russell King
2005-12-16 13:41                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 13:46                         ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 14:31                           ` Russell King
2005-12-16 15:24                             ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 15:35                               ` Nick Piggin
2005-12-16 15:40                               ` Kyle Moffett
2005-12-16 15:49                             ` Linh Dang
2005-12-16 15:46                           ` David Howells
2005-12-16 15:58                             ` Russell King
2005-12-17 15:57                       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-16 16:28                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 11:30                   ` David Howells
2005-12-16 16:33                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 16:33                       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:23                       ` David S. Miller
2005-12-16 22:38                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16 22:53                           ` David S. Miller
2005-12-17  0:41                             ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17  7:10                               ` David S. Miller
2005-12-17  7:40                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-17 17:22                                   ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17 17:19                                 ` Jesse Barnes
2005-12-17 22:38                             ` Richard Henderson
2005-12-17 23:05                               ` David S. Miller
2005-12-14 12:17                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-14 11:42               ` Arjan van de Ven [this message]
2005-12-14  8:31     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-12-13 20:04   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-13 21:03 ` David Howells
2005-12-15 13:58 linux
2005-12-15 16:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-15 16:52   ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-15 17:23     ` Dick Streefland
2005-12-16 12:17     ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-17 10:59       ` Sander
2005-12-17 14:14         ` Douglas McNaught
2005-12-17 15:09           ` Sander
2005-12-19 10:44         ` Erik Mouw
2005-12-15 19:02   ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-15 19:09   ` linux
2005-12-15 19:52     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-12-16  1:33       ` linux
2005-12-15 21:18     ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 20:52   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-12-15 17:45 Luck, Tony
2005-12-15 17:45 ` Luck, Tony
2005-12-15 18:00 ` David Howells
2005-12-15 18:48 ` James Bottomley
2005-12-15 20:38 ` Jeff Dike
2005-12-15 23:45   ` Stephen Rothwell
2005-12-16 12:49 linux
2005-12-16 15:24 ` David Howells
2005-12-16 18:03   ` linux

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