Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

[ChaosEsque Team]

Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them.
Where's linus in all of this?

The systemd fans ban anyone who say f__k-that to systemd.

What can we do?
Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)
Why do 4 people get to decide to send thousands and thousands of people into the systemd waters?
This is not fair.

This is not-pro choice. And YES, linux, and especially debian IS about choice.
No matter what redhat and lennart fans say.

Is there any way to kick the systemd fans out of debian development before
they kick out all the alternative init systems?

They have stated many times that they want the sys-v scripts to become
unmaintained and to be removed. They need to be kicked the hell out 
of debian before they make their change unrecoverable.

Everyone knows that the systemd crap is armtwisting and trys to
pull everyone and everything along with it. We wouldn't be having
these discussions if that were not so.

Our simple desire to continue using what we know is derided by systemd fans,
even alternative kernels like kFreeBSD are suggested to be removed by systemd 
fans for the benifit of systemd.

They basically say "hahhahah we will make sure sys-v is unusable in the future,
hahhahhaha systemd wins". It is a competition to them, and there must
be winners and losers.

4 people should not be able to control the distro that thousands develop for and
use. Nor should 500 people either. We should have choice, but the systemd
people will not allow it. They constantly argue and berate others who prefer
something other than systemd, they constantanly point out the systemd
way to do whatever, they are constantly evangelizing systemd.

Not using systemd is never an option to them, unless you leave debain 
and or use a non-linux operating system.

There has to be some way out of this. There has to be some way to
fight them. To retain choice, to oppose bloat, atleast on our own systems.
TO NOT HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING FROM SCRATCH.

We should not be forced or moved to leave debain by these new systemd
people. We should not accept being told "if you don't like systemd, do
everything yourself, sucker"

The sys-v scripts are their, they work, when a systemd fan tells us
they will be removed, or cease working (they're made of wood remember)
that systemd fan should be removed from debian development for 
a time.

Fire needs to be fought with fire.
The systemd people ban those who speak against sytemd
in anything they control (chat server, forums, lists)
They deride all users of other systems.
They proclaim constanty the death of every other init system.
They tell us that our scripts will break and be unsupported.
They are triumphalist against us.

A simple, clean, unixlike option needs to be maintained.
In debian. In linux.
It exists today. The systemd people should not be 
permitted to tear it down. They should not be allowed
to take away what we have and replace it in whole cloth
with their new order of things.

>(An aside:)
>(Lennart at some point announced that udev will no longer work without systemd.
>He is such a scumbag.
>
>Linus told him specifically not to do this.
>Lennart thinks he is a god and is dragging us all with him.)

Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

[Borislav Petkov]

On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 05:19:01AM -0800, ChaosEsque Team wrote:
> Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them.
> Where's linus in all of this?
> 
> The systemd fans ban anyone who say f__k-that to systemd.
> 
> What can we do?
> Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)
> Why do 4 people get to decide to send thousands and thousands of people into the systemd waters?
> This is not fair.
> 
> This is not-pro choice. And YES, linux, and especially debian IS about choice.

I don't know if you're trolling for a useless discussion or this is
really your opinion but if it were, I have to say that I agree with you
about the choice aspect. I don't like that systemd-or-die XOR-morality
either.

I'm sure systemd might have its merits and all but I think, too, people
should have a choice on any distro.

Just my 2c.

-- 
Regards/Gruss,
    Boris.

Sent from a fat crate under my desk. Formatting is fine.
--

Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

[ChaosEsque Team]

I much prefer simpler forms over complex forms.
SysV is that vs systemd.

The systemd people have pushed hard for exclusive systemd in debian.
And everywhere else for that matter.

I really would like to have the option, forever, to continue using 
sysv scripts, just like we've been doing since linux came into existance
and since debian came into the world. I do not like how systemd
works, I just don't want to use it. I don't like how it 
takes over everything.

I do like debian, it has always been about choice.
But now the systemd people are taking that choice away.

They are always threatening us that sysv scripts _will_
"bit rot" away (they're wooden?, no they exist now and work
fine, and will continue to work fine).

I wish someone could weigh in and defang the systemd and pottering 
people. They are steamrolling over all of us, they seem to take
pleasure in the fact that we will have to relearn everything and on 
their terms. It is domination of the mind.

They also have zero respect for anyone else. Zero respect for 
people that like the unix way. Zero respect for those older than them
and Zero respect for those working in the field.

Could linus perhaps atleast delegate udev away from pottering and friends?
And maybe make a statement that linux is NOT systemd, there is no
new "linux software stack" that pottering and friends keep insisting on.

This situation is coming to a head. We need leadership against this
landgrab of the systemd people.

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 2/14/14, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?
 To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@yahoo.com>
 Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
 Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 6:27 AM
 
 On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 05:19:01AM
 -0800, ChaosEsque Team wrote:
 > Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the
 fans of them.
 > Where's linus in all of this?
 > 
 > The systemd fans ban anyone who say f__k-that to
 systemd.
 > 
 > What can we do?
 > Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)
 > Why do 4 people get to decide to send thousands and
 thousands of people into the systemd waters?
 > This is not fair.
 > 
 > This is not-pro choice. And YES, linux, and especially
 debian IS about choice.
 
 I don't know if you're trolling for a useless discussion or
 this is
 really your opinion but if it were, I have to say that I
 agree with you
 about the choice aspect. I don't like that systemd-or-die
 XOR-morality
 either.
 
 I'm sure systemd might have its merits and all but I think,
 too, people
 should have a choice on any distro.
 
 Just my 2c.
 
 -- 
 Regards/Gruss,
     Boris.
 
 Sent from a fat crate under my desk. Formatting is fine.
 --
 

Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

[Austin S Hemmelgarn]

On 02/14/2014 11:10 AM, ChaosEsque Team wrote:
> I much prefer simpler forms over complex forms.
> SysV is that vs systemd.
> 
> The systemd people have pushed hard for exclusive systemd in debian.
> And everywhere else for that matter.
> 
> I really would like to have the option, forever, to continue using 
> sysv scripts, just like we've been doing since linux came into existance
> and since debian came into the world. I do not like how systemd
> works, I just don't want to use it. I don't like how it 
> takes over everything.
> 
> I do like debian, it has always been about choice.
> But now the systemd people are taking that choice away.
> 
> They are always threatening us that sysv scripts _will_
> "bit rot" away (they're wooden?, no they exist now and work
> fine, and will continue to work fine).
> 
> I wish someone could weigh in and defang the systemd and pottering 
> people. They are steamrolling over all of us, they seem to take
> pleasure in the fact that we will have to relearn everything and on 
> their terms. It is domination of the mind.
> 
> They also have zero respect for anyone else. Zero respect for 
> people that like the unix way. Zero respect for those older than them
> and Zero respect for those working in the field.
> 
> Could linus perhaps atleast delegate udev away from pottering and friends?
> And maybe make a statement that linux is NOT systemd, there is no
> new "linux software stack" that pottering and friends keep insisting on.
> 
> This situation is coming to a head. We need leadership against this
> landgrab of the systemd people.
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 2/14/14, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?
>  To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@yahoo.com>
>  Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
>  Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 6:27 AM
>  
>  On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 05:19:01AM
>  -0800, ChaosEsque Team wrote:
>  > Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the
>  fans of them.
>  > Where's linus in all of this?
>  > 
>  > The systemd fans ban anyone who say f__k-that to
>  systemd.
>  > 
>  > What can we do?
>  > Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)
>  > Why do 4 people get to decide to send thousands and
>  thousands of people into the systemd waters?
>  > This is not fair.
>  > 
>  > This is not-pro choice. And YES, linux, and especially
>  debian IS about choice.
>  
>  I don't know if you're trolling for a useless discussion or
>  this is
>  really your opinion but if it were, I have to say that I
>  agree with you
>  about the choice aspect. I don't like that systemd-or-die
>  XOR-morality
>  either.
>  
>  I'm sure systemd might have its merits and all but I think,
>  too, people
>  should have a choice on any distro.
>  
>  Just my 2c.
>  
>  -- 
>  Regards/Gruss,
>      Boris.
>  
>  Sent from a fat crate under my desk. Formatting is fine.
>  --

I wholeheartedly second this, systemd is way too monolithic.  What ever
happened to the traditional *nix philosophy of writing a program that
did one thing, and did it really well.  If i wanted to be forced lack of
choice, I'd be using OS X or Windows, not Linux.  This is actually one
of the primary reasons I refuse to use Debian or Ubuntu anymore.  Even
worse, I've heard rumblings of plans to integrate D-Bus into systemd,
although that's likely to result in somebody forking D-Bus.

Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

[One Thousand Gnomes]

> And maybe make a statement that linux is NOT systemd, there is no
> new "linux software stack" that pottering and friends keep insisting on.

The largest Linux user is Android, which I don't think uses systemd. The
kernel does not care. You can use emacs as your init for all the kernel
cares and handle all your udev messages in emacs lisp.

The kernel does not care. Indeed if the kernel did care about whether
someone used systemd, forked Debian or wanted to run emacs lisp as their
init then it would mean the architecture was wrong.

It's simply not the kernel's problem what people run as init and if
Debian wishes to divide into two distributions (Deb and Ian perhaps...)
then this is the wrong list for that debate.

Alan

Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

[ChaosEsque Team]

It sounds as if you have not heard the good news:
systemd.

Or you have not digested it enough:
systemd.

SystemD is touted as a new required "software stack" for linux
according to Pottering (who is a douchbag that should be kept away from computers
and other people's presentations) and his followers.

Gnome is requiring it, along with breaking compatability in libgtk
(eventhough libgtk is the GIMP's library, gnome folks have decided to take it over)

SystemD and gnome are embracing and extending everything.
They are extinguishing unix-like linux on the ground.

Their fans/employees/agents try to get systemd adopted
exclusively in every distro. To force everyone into compliance.
They are constantly constantly evangelizing systemd.
Anyone who opposes them is a troll and they have them banned.

They say if you don't like systemd etc, use mac or switch to bsd.
This included the debian-devs.

Lennart Pottering is the scumbag that is spearheading this.
Redhat is the company.

Fuck SystemD

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/17/14, One Thousand Gnomes <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?
 To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@yahoo.com>
 Cc: "Borislav Petkov" <bp@alien8.de>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
 Date: Monday, February 17, 2014, 7:22 AM
 
 > And maybe make a statement that
 linux is NOT systemd, there is no
 > new "linux software stack" that pottering and friends
 keep insisting on.
 
 The largest Linux user is Android, which I don't think uses
 systemd. The
 kernel does not care. You can use emacs as your init for all
 the kernel
 cares and handle all your udev messages in emacs lisp.
 
 The kernel does not care. Indeed if the kernel did care
 about whether
 someone used systemd, forked Debian or wanted to run emacs
 lisp as their
 init then it would mean the architecture was wrong.
 
 It's simply not the kernel's problem what people run as init
 and if
 Debian wishes to divide into two distributions (Deb and Ian
 perhaps...)
 then this is the wrong list for that debate.
 
 Alan
 

Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?

[ChaosEsque Team]

Yep another systemd supporter tactic:
shut down debate.

Also brush up on your colloquial english language skills.
I never said systemd itself was crap.
"Everyone knows that the systemd crap"
IE: The systemd "stuff".

>ChaosEsque Team:
>> Everyone knows that the systemd crap [...]
>
>Well, having used systemd for the past umpteen momnths, I can state from
>personal knowledge that it works rather well. "Crap" by definition does
>not, therefore systemd es not crap.
>
>Ergo, your main premise is hereby refuted.
>
>*NOW* will you kindly shut up?
>
>You're not helping anybody, not even those who otherwise share your opinion.
>
>I hereby formally ask the listmasters to please block these persons(?);
>enough is enough.
>
>-- 
>-- Matthias Urlichs

You did state that if systemd was not default
you would leave debian. It's always 
has to be your way, systemd people.

>Aigars Mahinovs wrote:
>Not respecting the communication culture of the project is a perfectly
>reasonable reason for a ban, regardless of the opinion expressed by
>the banned or held by the banners.

When the communication culture means accept systemd,
stop debating, stop trying to prevent the forcing
of systemd on the debian community..

In that case, screw the rules.
A revolution is needed when all power is 
in the hands of systemd supporters.

FOUR people should not beable to overturn
30 years of rock solid sysv stability.
(20 years in debian).

FOUR people should not beable to cancel out
the knowlege of how linux works of thousands
of debian customers (yea, im not using your
disrespectful "(l)users" phrase, people
who run debian are not as dumb as you systemd
people make us out to be, we DO care about
init and ARE paying attention) and replace
it with your own different ideas that we 
then are forced to learn.

The only reason systemd is to be forced 
on us is because a systemd supporter
had the chair position in the debain
tech-ctte oligarchic planning commission.

You shouldn't be able to declare sysv
"depreciated", "going to be removed",
"bit rotting" (wtf, the script is written
once and works forever unless the daemon
is rewritten to fork a few extra times
for no particular reason, most scripts
are write once work forevermore, and 
they exist, now. You want to rip them out)

You shouldn't be allowed to proclaim
that systemd is the victor and you shouldn't
be allowed to force or cajole us all 
to use systemd via the undemocratic
debian process.

Even if you do aquire a majority, you 
should not be allowed to take away 
the rights of the slight minority.

We know sysv. It works fine. Alot of 
us do NOT want to use systemd. But you
people say we have to or leave debian.

In that case debian needs to be split, 
and you systemd people need to be tossed
out of one half of it, just as you are
trying (and succeding) in tossing out
non-systemd users and devs from debian
currently.