From: Christian Schoenebeck <qemu_oss@crudebyte.com> To: qemu-devel@nongnu.org Cc: "Stefan Hajnoczi" <stefanha@redhat.com>, "Kevin Wolf" <kwolf@redhat.com>, "Laurent Vivier" <lvivier@redhat.com>, qemu-block@nongnu.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, "Jason Wang" <jasowang@redhat.com>, "Amit Shah" <amit@kernel.org>, "David Hildenbrand" <david@redhat.com>, "Greg Kurz" <groug@kaod.org>, virtio-fs@redhat.com, "Eric Auger" <eric.auger@redhat.com>, "Hanna Reitz" <hreitz@redhat.com>, "Gonglei (Arei)" <arei.gonglei@huawei.com>, "Gerd Hoffmann" <kraxel@redhat.com>, "Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>, "Marc-André Lureau" <marcandre.lureau@redhat.com>, "Fam Zheng" <fam@euphon.net>, "Raphael Norwitz" <raphael.norwitz@nutanix.com>, "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/3] virtio: increase VIRTQUEUE_MAX_SIZE to 32k Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 16:53:33 +0100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <1965987.S3ubrJPkfX@silver> (raw) In-Reply-To: <YYvhy5Lm7YaqCWix@stefanha-x1.localdomain> On Mittwoch, 10. November 2021 16:14:19 CET Stefan Hajnoczi wrote: > On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 02:14:43PM +0100, Christian Schoenebeck wrote: > > On Mittwoch, 10. November 2021 11:05:50 CET Stefan Hajnoczi wrote: > > As you are apparently reluctant for changing the virtio specs, what about > > introducing those discussed virtio capabalities either as experimental > > ones > > without specs changes, or even just as 9p specific device capabilities for > > now. I mean those could be revoked on both sides at any time anyway. > > I would like to understand the root cause before making changes. > > "It's faster when I do X" is useful information but it doesn't > necessarily mean doing X is the solution. The "it's faster when I do X > because Y" part is missing in my mind. Once there is evidence that shows > Y then it will be clearer if X is a good solution, if there's a more > general solution, or if it was just a side-effect. I think I made it clear that the root cause of the observed performance gain with rising transmission size is latency (and also that performance is not the only reason for addressing this queue size issue). Each request roundtrip has a certain minimum latency, the virtio ring alone has its latency, plus latency of the controller portion of the file server (e.g. permissions, sandbox checks, file IDs) that is executed with *every* request, plus latency of dispatching the request handling between threads several times back and forth (also for each request). Therefore when you split large payloads (e.g. reading a large file) into smaller n amount of chunks, then that individual latency per request accumulates to n times the individual latency, eventually leading to degraded transmission speed as those requests are serialized. > I'm sorry for frustrating your efforts here. We have discussed a lot of > different ideas and maybe our perspectives are not that far apart > anymore. > > Keep going with what you think is best. If I am still skeptical we can > ask someone else to review the patches instead of me so you have a > second opinion. > > Stefan Thanks Stefan! In the meantime I try to address your objections as far as I can. If there is more I can do (with reasonable effort) to resolve your doubts, just let me know. Best regards, Christian Schoenebeck
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Christian Schoenebeck <qemu_oss@crudebyte.com> To: qemu-devel@nongnu.org Cc: "Kevin Wolf" <kwolf@redhat.com>, "Laurent Vivier" <lvivier@redhat.com>, qemu-block@nongnu.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, "Jason Wang" <jasowang@redhat.com>, "Amit Shah" <amit@kernel.org>, "David Hildenbrand" <david@redhat.com>, "Raphael Norwitz" <raphael.norwitz@nutanix.com>, virtio-fs@redhat.com, "Eric Auger" <eric.auger@redhat.com>, "Hanna Reitz" <hreitz@redhat.com>, "Gonglei (Arei)" <arei.gonglei@huawei.com>, "Gerd Hoffmann" <kraxel@redhat.com>, "Marc-André Lureau" <marcandre.lureau@redhat.com>, "Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>, "Fam Zheng" <fam@euphon.net> Subject: Re: [Virtio-fs] [PATCH v2 0/3] virtio: increase VIRTQUEUE_MAX_SIZE to 32k Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 16:53:33 +0100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <1965987.S3ubrJPkfX@silver> (raw) In-Reply-To: <YYvhy5Lm7YaqCWix@stefanha-x1.localdomain> On Mittwoch, 10. November 2021 16:14:19 CET Stefan Hajnoczi wrote: > On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 02:14:43PM +0100, Christian Schoenebeck wrote: > > On Mittwoch, 10. November 2021 11:05:50 CET Stefan Hajnoczi wrote: > > As you are apparently reluctant for changing the virtio specs, what about > > introducing those discussed virtio capabalities either as experimental > > ones > > without specs changes, or even just as 9p specific device capabilities for > > now. I mean those could be revoked on both sides at any time anyway. > > I would like to understand the root cause before making changes. > > "It's faster when I do X" is useful information but it doesn't > necessarily mean doing X is the solution. The "it's faster when I do X > because Y" part is missing in my mind. Once there is evidence that shows > Y then it will be clearer if X is a good solution, if there's a more > general solution, or if it was just a side-effect. I think I made it clear that the root cause of the observed performance gain with rising transmission size is latency (and also that performance is not the only reason for addressing this queue size issue). Each request roundtrip has a certain minimum latency, the virtio ring alone has its latency, plus latency of the controller portion of the file server (e.g. permissions, sandbox checks, file IDs) that is executed with *every* request, plus latency of dispatching the request handling between threads several times back and forth (also for each request). Therefore when you split large payloads (e.g. reading a large file) into smaller n amount of chunks, then that individual latency per request accumulates to n times the individual latency, eventually leading to degraded transmission speed as those requests are serialized. > I'm sorry for frustrating your efforts here. We have discussed a lot of > different ideas and maybe our perspectives are not that far apart > anymore. > > Keep going with what you think is best. If I am still skeptical we can > ask someone else to review the patches instead of me so you have a > second opinion. > > Stefan Thanks Stefan! In the meantime I try to address your objections as far as I can. If there is more I can do (with reasonable effort) to resolve your doubts, just let me know. Best regards, Christian Schoenebeck
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-11-10 15:54 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-10-04 19:38 [PATCH v2 0/3] virtio: increase VIRTQUEUE_MAX_SIZE to 32k Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-04 19:38 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-04 19:38 ` [PATCH v2 1/3] virtio: turn VIRTQUEUE_MAX_SIZE into a variable Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-04 19:38 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 7:36 ` Greg Kurz 2021-10-05 7:36 ` [Virtio-fs] " Greg Kurz 2021-10-05 12:45 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-05 12:45 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-05 13:15 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 13:15 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 15:10 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-05 15:10 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-05 16:32 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 16:32 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-06 11:06 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-06 11:06 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-06 12:50 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-06 12:50 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-06 14:42 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-06 14:42 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-07 13:09 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-07 13:09 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-07 15:18 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-07 15:18 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-08 14:48 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-08 14:48 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-04 19:38 ` [PATCH v2 2/3] virtio: increase VIRTQUEUE_MAX_SIZE to 32k Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-04 19:38 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 7:16 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2021-10-05 7:16 ` [Virtio-fs] " Michael S. Tsirkin 2021-10-05 7:35 ` Greg Kurz 2021-10-05 7:35 ` [Virtio-fs] " Greg Kurz 2021-10-05 11:17 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 11:17 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 11:24 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2021-10-05 11:24 ` [Virtio-fs] " Michael S. Tsirkin 2021-10-05 12:01 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 12:01 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-04 19:38 ` [PATCH v2 3/3] virtio-9p-device: switch to 32k max. transfer size Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-04 19:38 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 7:38 ` [PATCH v2 0/3] virtio: increase VIRTQUEUE_MAX_SIZE to 32k David Hildenbrand 2021-10-05 7:38 ` [Virtio-fs] " David Hildenbrand 2021-10-05 11:10 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 11:10 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 11:19 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2021-10-05 11:19 ` [Virtio-fs] " Michael S. Tsirkin 2021-10-05 11:43 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-05 11:43 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-07 5:23 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-07 5:23 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-07 12:51 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-07 12:51 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-07 15:42 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-07 15:42 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-08 7:25 ` Greg Kurz 2021-10-08 7:25 ` [Virtio-fs] " Greg Kurz 2021-10-08 8:27 ` Greg Kurz 2021-10-08 14:24 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-08 14:24 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-08 16:08 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-08 16:08 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-21 15:39 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-21 15:39 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-25 10:30 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-25 10:30 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-25 15:03 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-25 15:03 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-10-28 9:00 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-10-28 9:00 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-01 20:29 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-01 20:29 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-03 11:33 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-03 11:33 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-04 14:41 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-04 14:41 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-09 10:56 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-09 10:56 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-09 13:09 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-09 13:09 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-10 10:05 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-10 10:05 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-10 13:14 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-10 13:14 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-10 15:14 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-10 15:14 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-10 15:53 ` Christian Schoenebeck [this message] 2021-11-10 15:53 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-11 16:31 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-11 16:31 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-11 17:54 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-11 17:54 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-15 11:54 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-15 11:54 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-15 14:32 ` Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-15 14:32 ` [Virtio-fs] " Christian Schoenebeck 2021-11-16 11:13 ` Stefan Hajnoczi 2021-11-16 11:13 ` [Virtio-fs] " Stefan Hajnoczi
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