Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Kaz Kylheku]

Illiterate idiots, that should be:

    strcpy("Mother", "computer-illiterate") == 0

Mind what list you're on.

:)




-----Original Message-----
    From: <jlnance@unity.ncsu.edu>
    Sent: 1/9/03 1:24:52 PM
    To: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
    Subject: Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"
    
    On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:40:19PM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
    
    > P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
    > the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
    > Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
    > Barbara Simons.
    
    Am I the first person to tell you you left off Ada Lovelace?  She was
    way ahead of her time.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jim
    -
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Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Murray J. Root]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:47:12PM -0800, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> Illiterate idiots, that should be:
> 
>     strcpy("Mother", "computer-illiterate") == 0
> 
> Mind what list you're on.
> 
> :)
> 
Perhaps you meant
	strcmp("Mother", "computer-illiterate")
?

strcpy with two string literals won't compile.

-- 
Murray J. Root
------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/
------------------------------------------------
Mandrake on irc.freenode.net:
  #mandrake & #mandrake-linux = help for newbies 
  #mdk-cooker = Mandrake Cooker
  #cooker = moderated Mandrake Cooker

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Kristian Koehntopp]

Am Do 9.Januar 2003 21:46 schrieb Randy.Dunlap:
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 jlnance@unity.ncsu.edu wrote:
> | On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:40:19PM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
> | > P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
> | > the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
> | > Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
> | > Barbara Simons.
> |
> | Am I the first person to tell you you left off Ada Lovelace?  She was
> | way ahead of her time.
>
> and Grace Hopper (ugh, COBOL)

and Adele Goldberg (Smalltalk-80).

Kristian

-- 
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/wishlist/18E5SVQ5HJZXG

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Henning P. Schmiedehausen]

Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> writes:

>On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 19:40, Val Henson wrote:
>> P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
>> the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
>> Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
>> Barbara Simons.

>and of course Sally Floyd, and even Hedy Lamarr (bonus points for those
>who know what her networking related patent is on)

Come on, she actually has a homepage: http://www.hedylamarr.at/

-> frequency hopping

        Regards
                Henning


-- 
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     hps@intermeta.de

Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   info@intermeta.de
D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Tim Timmerman]

>>>>> "Val" == Val Henson <val@nmt.edu> writes:

Val> On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 11:29:47AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
>> 
>> If someone's mom (having heard the gossip) asks their computer-literate
>> child, `What is this XXX thing, anyway?', the answer is likely to be
>> very different when XXX is "GNU" as opposed to when XXX is "Linux".

Val> How come no one ever talks about a Linux distribution so easy that
Val> your grandfather could install it?  Or a kernel configuration tool so
Val> simple that even Uncle Timmy can use it?
     'make xconfig' works just fine for me.

     (Uncle) Timmy


-- 
tim.timmerman@asml.nl                              040-2683613
timt@timt.org   Voodoo Programmer/Keeper of the Rubber Chicken
I've never seen electricity, so I don't pay for it. I write right on
the bill, 'I'm sorry, I haven't seen it all month.' 

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Tom Diehl]

On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, jdow wrote:

> From: "Chris Adams" <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
> 
> > Once upon a time, Alan Cox  <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> said:
> > >and of course Sally Floyd, and even Hedy Lamarr (bonus points for those
> > >who know what her networking related patent is on)
> > 
> > That's HEDLEY!  Oh, but he doesn't have any patents.
> 
> No, it's Hedy Lamarr and she invented frequency hopping spread spectrum
> with George Anthiel. I worked on one of the first practical implementations
> of the concept back in the early 70s. Somehow it seems appropriate.

Hehe!! He got you Joanne!! Ever watch Blazing Saddles?? 

I am jealous though. In reading various messages written by you, you have 
clearly had way too much fun in life!! :-)

Enjoy,

-- 
.............Tom	"Nothing would please me more than being able to 
tdiehl@rogueind.com	hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market 
			with good software." -- Bill Gates 1976

   			We are still waiting ....

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Val Henson]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 06:15:39PM -0800, jdow wrote:
> From: "Chris Adams" <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
> 
> > Once upon a time, Alan Cox  <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> said:
> > >and of course Sally Floyd, and even Hedy Lamarr (bonus points for those
> > >who know what her networking related patent is on)
> > 
> > That's HEDLEY!  Oh, but he doesn't have any patents.
> 
> No, it's Hedy Lamarr and she invented frequency hopping spread spectrum
> with George Anthiel. I worked on one of the first practical implementations
> of the concept back in the early 70s. Somehow it seems appropriate.

Chris was making a joke which you won't get unless you watch "Blazing
Saddles" (something I've never gotten around to myself).  Hedley
Lamarr was a character in the movie who, indeed, doesn't have any
patents.

Neat to hear you got to work on such an interesting project!

-VAL

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[jdow]

From: "Chris Adams" <cmadams@hiwaay.net>

> Once upon a time, Alan Cox  <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> said:
> >and of course Sally Floyd, and even Hedy Lamarr (bonus points for those
> >who know what her networking related patent is on)
> 
> That's HEDLEY!  Oh, but he doesn't have any patents.

No, it's Hedy Lamarr and she invented frequency hopping spread spectrum
with George Anthiel. I worked on one of the first practical implementations
of the concept back in the early 70s. Somehow it seems appropriate.

{^_^}  Joanne, jdow@earthlink.net

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Andrew McGregor]

--On Thursday, January 09, 2003 15:30:54 -0500 Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu 
wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:21:44 EST, jlnance@unity.ncsu.edu  said:
>> On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:40:19PM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
>>
>> > P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
>> > the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
>> > Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
>> > Barbara Simons.
>>
>> Am I the first person to tell you you left off Ada Lovelace?  She was
>> way ahead of her time.
>
> I think Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper were left off as "too easy"....

Sally Floyd and Allison Mankin?

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Alan Cox  <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> said:
>and of course Sally Floyd, and even Hedy Lamarr (bonus points for those
>who know what her networking related patent is on)

That's HEDLEY!  Oh, but he doesn't have any patents.
-- 
Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Alan Cox]

On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 19:40, Val Henson wrote:
> P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
> the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
> Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
> Barbara Simons.

and of course Sally Floyd, and even Hedy Lamarr (bonus points for those
who know what her networking related patent is on)

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[John Adams]

On Thursday 09 January 2003 06:11 pm, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> and of course Sally Floyd, and even Hedy Lamarr (bonus points for those
> who know what her networking related patent is on)

Google makes this too easy. 
 http://www.german-way.com/cinema/lamarr.html
i

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Valdis.Kletnieks]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 206 bytes --]

On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:46:30 PST, "Randy.Dunlap" said:
> (ugh, COBOL)

Go back and research the alternatives available at the time.

Then ask yourself which you'd prefer to do maintenance programming on.



[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 226 bytes --]

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Randy.Dunlap]

On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:

| On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:46:30 PST, "Randy.Dunlap" said:
| > (ugh, COBOL)
|
| Go back and research the alternatives available at the time.

True.

| Then ask yourself which you'd prefer to do maintenance programming on.

I've done several years of COBOL (/me hides).
I'm familiar with its strengths in the right environment.

-- 
~Randy

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Randy.Dunlap]

On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 jlnance@unity.ncsu.edu wrote:

| On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:40:19PM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
|
| > P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
| > the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
| > Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
| > Barbara Simons.
|
| Am I the first person to tell you you left off Ada Lovelace?  She was
| way ahead of her time.

and Grace Hopper (ugh, COBOL)

-- 
~Randy

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Valdis.Kletnieks]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 539 bytes --]

On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:21:44 EST, jlnance@unity.ncsu.edu  said:
> On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:40:19PM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
> 
> > P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
> > the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
> > Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
> > Barbara Simons.
> 
> Am I the first person to tell you you left off Ada Lovelace?  She was
> way ahead of her time.

I think Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper were left off as "too easy"....

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 226 bytes --]

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[jlnance]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:40:19PM -0700, Val Henson wrote:

> P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
> the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
> Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
> Barbara Simons.

Am I the first person to tell you you left off Ada Lovelace?  She was
way ahead of her time.

Thanks,

Jim

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Val Henson]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:20:43AM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 11:29:47AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> > 
> > If someone's mom (having heard the gossip) asks their computer-literate
> > child, `What is this XXX thing, anyway?', the answer is likely to be
> > very different when XXX is "GNU" as opposed to when XXX is "Linux".
> 
> How come no one ever talks about a Linux distribution so easy that
> your grandfather could install it?  Or a kernel configuration tool so
> simple that even Uncle Timmy can use it?
> 
> Can we quit with the "clueless mother" examples already?  My own
> mother has installed more distributions of Linux than I've even logged
> into.  I know quite a few mothers who have PhDs in CS, own several
> CS-related patents, and/or made important fundamental discoveries in
> CS.  Hint: Find out who invented the spanning tree algorithm for
> ethernet bridges, $10 ThinkGeek gift certificate to the first person
> who emails me the correct answer.

And the winner is David Hoose, who sent the answer to me 10 minutes
after the message to linux-kernel arrived in my mail queue.  The
answer is:

Radia Perlman

She is the inventor of the spanning tree algorithm, the author of
"Interconnections: Bridges, Routers, Switches, and Internetworking
Protocols" from Addison-Wesley, and the mother of at least two
children.  Honorable mention to: Joe Perches, Joe Sloan, Chris Ricker,
Larry McVoy, and "Disconnect," real name withheld.

-VAL

P.S. For extra credit (but no ThinkGeek certificate) you can look up
the following women in computer science, some of whom are mothers:
Mary Baker, Margo Seltzer, Monica Lam, Ellen Spertus, Carla Ellis, and
Barbara Simons.

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Kent Borg]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:20:43AM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
> How come no one ever talks about a Linux distribution so easy that
> your grandfather could install it?  Or a kernel configuration tool so
> simple that even Uncle Timmy can use it?

I am new to this thread, but I do use the "my mom" example because my
mother *is* the computer pioneer I know in that generation, but one
who still finds them difficult.  She has been using computers since
she got a new Macintosh Plus and a 30 MB hard disk, and she has been
using e-mail since before it was clear to everybody that @-signs would
be a universal part of e-mail addresses.  However, she is also still
not a computer wiz and I think never will be--there seems to be a
generational thing here, like learning a foreign language in
adulthood, that keeps computers hard.  When my mother was a little
girl electricity was still new, and was useful for lighting.

My most recent e-mail from her was saying the some Apple support
person concluded her current problem is likely the Imac's hard drive
and to bring it into the store where she got it.  (Her other Imac
works better, but it is only OS X and doesn't work with her scanner.)
She keeps at it!

My father only recently got interested in computers, uses the new Imac
for video editing, but refers all support questions to my mother.  He
doesn't pretend to be self-sufficient on the topic.

> Can we quit with the "clueless mother" examples already?  

My mother is far from clueless, but she is stubbornly resistant to
becoming a power user who can reliably solve her own problems.  (The
fact that computers are still so damn buggy doesn't help either.)

I am encouraging them to get a DSL connection with a static IP, at
which point I will add a Linux computer to their collection--and I
will administer it remotely from 1000 miles away.

> My own mother has installed more distributions of Linux than I've
> even logged into.

I don't doubt that, but until computers get a lot easier to use and
administer the graphic image of the Clueless Mother is useful to shock
most geeks back to the reality that there *are* naive users.  Many of
us have mothers, and computer expert mothers are still rare.

> I know quite a few mothers who have PhDs in CS, own several
> CS-related patents, and/or made important fundamental discoveries in
> CS.

(You hang out in rarified circles, the number of women in CSci id
dropping.)

So don't imagine a general purpose "have given birth human"!  Imagine
a woman born in a modern western country, but 20 years before the
invention of the transistor.  These capable women mastered impressive
things, but computers are so obtuse!  And they are not the only ones
having trouble.  I am still having trouble getting my software Raid 1
to boot off of either drive if one goes south--without opening the box
and pulling cables.  And it seems like such a reasonable desire...


-kb, the Kent who insists that computers are more difficult than they
need be.


P.S.  Some of us are old enough to remember when mice and graphical
interfaces were considered toys for beginners and not suitable to real
users.  But at least then there was controversy!  Now, overlapping
windows are the undoubted standard and no one even complains.  These
traditions are too complicated, limited, and narrow, but it is hard to
think beyond them.  But imagining a naive user (maybe even knowing one
or two) is a useful way to ask basic questions.  If this naive user
isn't Your Mother, OK, but please don't forget that what is good for a
naive user (e.g., the mouse) is good for others too.

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Miles Bader]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:20:43AM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
> My own mother has installed more distributions of Linux than I've even
> logged into.

Then I suppose you would probably use a different example.  Great.

-miles
-- 
[|nurgle|]  ddt- demonic? so quake will have an evil kinda setting? one that 
            will  make every christian in the world foamm at the mouth? 
[iddt]      nurg, that's the goal 

Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[J Sloan]

Val Henson wrote:

>  
>
>Can we quit with the "clueless mother" examples already?  My own
>mother has installed more distributions of Linux than I've even logged
>into.  I know quite a few mothers who have PhDs in CS, own several
>CS-related patents, and/or made important fundamental discoveries in
>CS.  Hint: Find out who invented the spanning tree algorithm for
>ethernet bridges, $10 ThinkGeek gift certificate to the first person
>who emails me the correct answer.
>
Radia Perlman

Joe

"Mother" == "computer-illiterate"

[Val Henson]

On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 11:29:47AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> 
> If someone's mom (having heard the gossip) asks their computer-literate
> child, `What is this XXX thing, anyway?', the answer is likely to be
> very different when XXX is "GNU" as opposed to when XXX is "Linux".

How come no one ever talks about a Linux distribution so easy that
your grandfather could install it?  Or a kernel configuration tool so
simple that even Uncle Timmy can use it?

Can we quit with the "clueless mother" examples already?  My own
mother has installed more distributions of Linux than I've even logged
into.  I know quite a few mothers who have PhDs in CS, own several
CS-related patents, and/or made important fundamental discoveries in
CS.  Hint: Find out who invented the spanning tree algorithm for
ethernet bridges, $10 ThinkGeek gift certificate to the first person
who emails me the correct answer.

-VAL