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From: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
To: mingo@elte.hu
Cc: a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl, cfriesen@nortel.com, tglx@linutronix.de,
	rostedt@goodmis.org, linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org, paulus@samba.org,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: question about softirqs
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:44:27 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090512.214427.193728136.davem@davemloft.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090512092348.GA29796@elte.hu>

From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:23:48 +0200

>> Wouldn't the even better solution be to get rid of softirqs 
>> all-together?
>> 
>> I see the recent work by Thomas to get threaded interrupts 
>> upstream as a good first step towards that goal, once the RX 
>> processing is moved to a thread (or multiple threads) one can 
>> priorize them in the regular sys_sched_setscheduler() way and its 
>> obvious that a FIFO task above the priority of the network tasks 
>> will have network starvation issues.
> 
> Yeah, that would be "nice". A single IRQ thread plus the process 
> context(s) doing networking might perform well.

Nice for -rt goals, but not for latency.

So we're going to regress in this area again?  I can't see how
that's so desirable, to be honest with you.

The fact that this discussion started about a task with a certain
priority not being able to make forward progress, even though it
was correct coded, just because softirqs are being processed in
a thread context, should be a big red flag that this is a buggered up
design.

I fully expected us to be, at this point, talking about putting the
pending softirq check back into the trap return path :-/

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
To: mingo@elte.hu
Cc: a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl, linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, rostedt@goodmis.org, paulus@samba.org,
	tglx@linutronix.de
Subject: Re: question about softirqs
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:44:27 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090512.214427.193728136.davem@davemloft.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090512092348.GA29796@elte.hu>

From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:23:48 +0200

>> Wouldn't the even better solution be to get rid of softirqs 
>> all-together?
>> 
>> I see the recent work by Thomas to get threaded interrupts 
>> upstream as a good first step towards that goal, once the RX 
>> processing is moved to a thread (or multiple threads) one can 
>> priorize them in the regular sys_sched_setscheduler() way and its 
>> obvious that a FIFO task above the priority of the network tasks 
>> will have network starvation issues.
> 
> Yeah, that would be "nice". A single IRQ thread plus the process 
> context(s) doing networking might perform well.

Nice for -rt goals, but not for latency.

So we're going to regress in this area again?  I can't see how
that's so desirable, to be honest with you.

The fact that this discussion started about a task with a certain
priority not being able to make forward progress, even though it
was correct coded, just because softirqs are being processed in
a thread context, should be a big red flag that this is a buggered up
design.

I fully expected us to be, at this point, talking about putting the
pending softirq check back into the trap return path :-/

  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-05-13  4:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-05-08 22:51 question about softirqs Chris Friesen
2009-05-08 23:05 ` David Miller
2009-05-08 23:34 ` Paul Mackerras
2009-05-08 23:53   ` David Miller
2009-05-09  2:52     ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2009-05-09  3:31     ` Paul Mackerras
2009-05-09  6:48       ` David Miller
2009-05-11 18:25         ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-11 23:24           ` David Miller
2009-05-12  0:43             ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-12  8:12               ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-12  8:12                 ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-12  9:12                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-12  9:23                   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-12  9:32                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2009-05-12 12:20                       ` Steven Rostedt
2009-05-12 12:20                         ` Steven Rostedt
2009-05-13  4:45                         ` David Miller
2009-05-13  4:44                     ` David Miller [this message]
2009-05-13  4:44                       ` David Miller
2009-05-13  5:15                       ` Paul Mackerras
2009-05-13  5:15                         ` Paul Mackerras
2009-05-13  5:28                         ` David Miller
2009-05-13  5:28                           ` David Miller
2009-05-13  5:55                   ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2009-05-13  5:55                     ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2009-05-12 15:18                 ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-12 15:18                   ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-13  8:34                   ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13  8:34                     ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 13:23                     ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-13 14:15                       ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 14:15                         ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 14:17                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-13 14:17                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-13 14:24                           ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 14:24                             ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 14:54                             ` Eric Dumazet
2009-05-13 14:54                               ` Eric Dumazet
2009-05-13 15:02                               ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 15:02                                 ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 15:05                             ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-13 15:54                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-13 15:54                                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-13 16:10                                 ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-13 17:01                               ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 19:04                                 ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-13 19:04                                   ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-13 19:13                                   ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 19:13                                     ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 19:44                                     ` Chris Friesen
2009-05-13 19:53                                       ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 19:53                                         ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-13 20:55                                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-13 20:55                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2009-05-11 23:34           ` Paul Mackerras
2009-05-09  0:28   ` Chris Friesen

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