From: Grant Likely <grant.likely@linaro.org> To: Robie Basak <robie.basak@canonical.com> Cc: cross-distro@lists.linaro.org, Ian Campbell <ian.campbell@citrix.com>, "kvm@vger.kernel.org" <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, Michael Casadevall <Michael.casadevall@linaro.org>, Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org>, Rob Herring <rob.herring@linaro.org>, Leif Lindholm <leif.lindholm@linaro.org>, xen-devel@lists.xen.org, "marc.zyngier@arm.com" <marc.zyngier@arm.com>, Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@citrix.com>, Christoffer Dall <christoffer.dall@linaro.org>, "kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu" <kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu>, "linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org> Subject: Re: [RFC] ARM VM System Sepcification Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 20:09:03 +0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20140307120903.6F0C9C40612@trevor.secretlab.ca> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20140306085213.GU643@mal.justgohome.co.uk> On Thu, 6 Mar 2014 08:52:13 +0000, Robie Basak <robie.basak@canonical.com> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 01, 2014 at 03:27:56PM +0000, Grant Likely wrote: > > I would also reference section 3.3 (Boot Option Variables Default Boot > > Behavior) and 3.4.1.1 (Removable Media Boot Behavior) here. It's fine to > > restate the meaning of the requirement in this spec, but the UEFI spec > > is the authoritative source. Distributed VM disk images fall under the > > same scenario as the firmware not having any valid boot variables. > > What happens when the VM is first booted without boot variables, but > then the OS expects to be able to set boot variables and see them on > next boot? > > AIUI, we don't have an implementation of this right now, and even if we > did, there are implications for persistent storage of this data further > up the stack (a required implementation in libvirt, OpenStack nova > providing a storage area for it, etc). > > If possible, I would prefer to mandate that the host implementation is > permitted to no-op (or otherwise disable) boot variable write operations > altogether to avoid having to deal with this. In the common case, I > don't see why an OS installation shipped via a VM disk image would need > to write boot variables anyway. If a VM is booting from a distributed disk image, the boot variables absolutely should start out empty. That's the only sane option. It is appropriate to implement boot variable storage, but only because it is needed if multiple OSes get installed. Those variables should not get distributed with a disk image. > Would there be any adverse consequences to doing this? It would be a bad idea to inhibit variable storage. That would break all kinds of boot and install scenarios. > My reason is that this would save us from blocking a general OpenStack > implementation on ARM by requiring that these pieces are implemented > further up the stack first, when it would bring actual gain to doing so. > > This would not preclude host implementations from implementing writeable > variables, or guests from using them. Just that for a _portable VM disk > image_, the OS on it cannot assume that this functionality is present. Yeah, just to restate what I mean. If you're talking about bringing up a portable disk image, the VM should start with an empty list of boot variables. g.
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: grant.likely@linaro.org (Grant Likely) To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Subject: [RFC] ARM VM System Sepcification Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 20:09:03 +0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20140307120903.6F0C9C40612@trevor.secretlab.ca> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20140306085213.GU643@mal.justgohome.co.uk> On Thu, 6 Mar 2014 08:52:13 +0000, Robie Basak <robie.basak@canonical.com> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 01, 2014 at 03:27:56PM +0000, Grant Likely wrote: > > I would also reference section 3.3 (Boot Option Variables Default Boot > > Behavior) and 3.4.1.1 (Removable Media Boot Behavior) here. It's fine to > > restate the meaning of the requirement in this spec, but the UEFI spec > > is the authoritative source. Distributed VM disk images fall under the > > same scenario as the firmware not having any valid boot variables. > > What happens when the VM is first booted without boot variables, but > then the OS expects to be able to set boot variables and see them on > next boot? > > AIUI, we don't have an implementation of this right now, and even if we > did, there are implications for persistent storage of this data further > up the stack (a required implementation in libvirt, OpenStack nova > providing a storage area for it, etc). > > If possible, I would prefer to mandate that the host implementation is > permitted to no-op (or otherwise disable) boot variable write operations > altogether to avoid having to deal with this. In the common case, I > don't see why an OS installation shipped via a VM disk image would need > to write boot variables anyway. If a VM is booting from a distributed disk image, the boot variables absolutely should start out empty. That's the only sane option. It is appropriate to implement boot variable storage, but only because it is needed if multiple OSes get installed. Those variables should not get distributed with a disk image. > Would there be any adverse consequences to doing this? It would be a bad idea to inhibit variable storage. That would break all kinds of boot and install scenarios. > My reason is that this would save us from blocking a general OpenStack > implementation on ARM by requiring that these pieces are implemented > further up the stack first, when it would bring actual gain to doing so. > > This would not preclude host implementations from implementing writeable > variables, or guests from using them. Just that for a _portable VM disk > image_, the OS on it cannot assume that this functionality is present. Yeah, just to restate what I mean. If you're talking about bringing up a portable disk image, the VM should start with an empty list of boot variables. g.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-07 12:09 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 222+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2014-02-26 18:34 [RFC] ARM VM System Sepcification Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 18:34 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 19:27 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-26 19:27 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-26 19:51 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 19:51 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 19:51 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-27 13:12 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-27 13:12 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-27 13:12 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-27 16:02 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-27 16:02 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-27 16:02 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-01 15:41 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 15:41 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-26 19:27 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-26 19:55 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-26 19:55 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-26 20:05 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 20:05 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 20:22 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-26 20:22 ` Arnd Bergmann [not found] ` < CABGGisxHOVqLcG7hVAuAzdeic41KWSLLBSjQLSJQcjTXLhNCow@mail.gmail.com> 2014-02-26 21:56 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 21:56 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 21:56 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 22:21 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 22:21 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 22:21 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-27 7:30 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 7:30 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 7:30 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 10:05 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-02-27 10:05 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-02-27 10:05 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-01 19:12 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 19:12 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 19:12 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-26 20:22 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 9:35 ` Catalin Marinas 2014-02-27 9:35 ` Catalin Marinas 2014-02-27 9:35 ` Catalin Marinas 2014-02-26 20:05 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 20:19 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-02-26 20:19 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-02-26 20:19 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-02-26 20:20 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 20:20 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 20:20 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 21:48 ` Leif Lindholm 2014-02-26 21:48 ` Leif Lindholm 2014-02-26 22:25 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 22:25 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-01 19:20 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 19:20 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 19:20 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-26 22:25 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-27 12:31 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-27 12:31 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-27 14:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 14:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 14:24 ` Alexander Graf 2014-02-27 14:24 ` Alexander Graf 2014-02-27 19:56 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 19:56 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 19:56 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-28 0:05 ` Alexander Graf 2014-02-28 0:05 ` Alexander Graf 2014-02-28 0:05 ` Alexander Graf 2014-02-28 10:01 ` Arnd Bergmann [not found] ` <CB7DBE07-42BD-4588-AC9E-CB0BF95A811A-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org> 2014-02-28 10:01 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-28 10:01 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-28 13:38 ` Riku Voipio 2014-02-28 13:38 ` Riku Voipio 2014-02-28 14:44 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-28 14:44 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-28 14:44 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-27 14:24 ` Alexander Graf 2014-03-01 19:25 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 19:25 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 19:25 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-27 14:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-27 12:31 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-26 21:48 ` Leif Lindholm 2014-02-26 22:49 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 22:49 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 22:54 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 22:54 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 23:08 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 23:08 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 23:08 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 23:14 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 23:14 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-27 4:06 ` Nicolas Pitre 2014-02-27 4:06 ` Nicolas Pitre 2014-02-27 4:06 ` Nicolas Pitre 2014-02-26 23:14 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-27 11:36 ` Robie Basak 2014-02-27 11:36 ` Robie Basak 2014-02-27 11:36 ` Robie Basak 2014-02-26 22:54 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 23:13 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-26 23:13 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-26 23:13 ` Christopher Covington 2014-02-26 22:49 ` Rob Herring 2014-02-26 19:55 ` Arnd Bergmann 2014-02-26 21:05 ` Michael Hudson-Doyle 2014-02-26 21:05 ` Michael Hudson-Doyle 2014-02-26 21:05 ` Michael Hudson-Doyle 2014-02-26 21:08 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 21:08 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 21:08 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 22:35 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-26 22:47 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 22:47 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-26 22:47 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-02-27 12:27 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-27 12:27 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-02-27 12:27 ` Stefano Stabellini 2014-03-01 19:54 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-27 12:55 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-27 12:55 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-27 12:55 ` Peter Maydell 2014-02-26 22:35 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-27 0:41 ` Blibbet 2014-02-27 0:41 ` Blibbet 2014-02-27 0:41 ` Blibbet [not found] ` <20140226134251.0436294e@anubis.ausil.us> [not found] ` <CAMJs5B9bCs8Oz2Zg4UK--A3H4AaZRPMwy7SpxYom-1--_=qhBQ@mail.gmail.com> [not found] ` <20140226151536.58154704@anubis.ausil.us> 2014-02-27 17:34 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-27 17:34 ` Grant Likely 2014-02-27 17:34 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 15:27 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 15:27 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-03 1:13 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-03 1:13 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-03 1:13 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-06 8:52 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-06 8:52 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-06 8:52 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-06 9:46 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-06 9:46 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-06 11:44 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-06 11:44 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-06 11:44 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-06 12:04 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-06 12:04 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-06 12:10 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-06 12:10 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-06 12:10 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-07 12:24 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-06 12:04 ` Robie Basak [not found] ` <20140306120449.GA29916@ mal.justgohome.co.uk> [not found] ` <20140306120449.GA29916-TaX3GuEuUBUVRcMIguc0yNBc4/FLrbF6@public.gmane.org> 2014-03-07 12:24 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-07 12:24 ` Grant Likely [not found] ` < 20140322010206.GF25519@cbox> 2014-03-22 2:29 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-22 2:29 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-22 2:29 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-22 8:08 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-22 8:08 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-22 8:08 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-23 3:19 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-23 3:19 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-23 3:29 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-23 3:29 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-23 3:29 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-24 9:57 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-24 9:57 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-24 10:46 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-24 10:46 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-24 10:46 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-24 9:57 ` Robie Basak 2014-03-23 3:19 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-22 12:23 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-22 12:23 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-22 19:57 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-22 19:57 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-22 22:35 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-22 22:35 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-22 22:35 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-22 23:38 ` Michael Casadevall 2014-03-22 23:38 ` Michael Casadevall 2014-03-22 23:38 ` Michael Casadevall 2014-03-23 0:33 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-23 0:33 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-23 0:33 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-22 19:57 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-23 3:23 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-23 3:23 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-23 3:23 ` Christoffer Dall 2014-03-24 9:03 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 9:03 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 9:03 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 10:41 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-24 10:41 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-24 10:41 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-24 10:47 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 10:47 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 10:47 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 12:13 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-24 12:13 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-24 12:13 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-24 12:16 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 12:16 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-24 12:16 ` Ian Campbell 2014-03-22 12:23 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-07 12:19 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-08 11:41 ` Michael Casadevall 2014-03-08 11:41 ` Michael Casadevall 2014-03-08 20:41 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-08 20:41 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-08 20:41 ` Laszlo Ersek 2014-03-08 11:41 ` Michael Casadevall 2014-03-06 9:46 ` Paolo Bonzini 2014-03-07 12:09 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-07 12:09 ` Grant Likely [this message] 2014-03-07 12:09 ` Grant Likely [not found] ` <531843EE. 8040102@redhat.com> [not found] ` <531843EE.8040102-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 2014-03-07 12:19 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-07 12:19 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 15:27 ` Grant Likely [not found] ` < CACxGe6tjuytsYAn6Hadf0AK+REzHgRydgbHPafL8+Sdtd_tMUA@mail.gmail.com> [not found] ` <alpine .DEB.2.02.1402271216040.31489@kaball.uk.xensource.com> [not found] ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402271216040.31489-7Z66fg9igcxYtxbxJUhB2Dgeux46jI+i@public.gmane.org> 2014-03-01 19:54 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-01 19:54 ` Grant Likely 2014-03-02 9:29 ` Peter Maydell 2014-03-02 9:29 ` Peter Maydell 2014-03-02 9:29 ` Peter Maydell -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2014-02-26 18:34 Christoffer Dall
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