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From: Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>
To: Pierre-Louis Bossart <pierre-louis.bossart@linux.intel.com>
Cc: Takashi Sakamoto <o-takashi@sakamocchi.jp>,
	alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@linaro.org>,
	linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [alsa-devel] [very-RFC 0/8] TSN driver for the kernel
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 13:49:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160620114924.GA8971@sisyphus.home.austad.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9a5abd48-4da3-945d-53c9-b6d37010ab0d@linux.intel.com>

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On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:08:27PM +0200, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
> 
> >Presentation time is either set by
> >a) Local sound card performing capture (in which case it will be 'capture
> >   time')
> >b) Local media application sending a stream accross the network
> >   (time when the sample should be played out remotely)
> >c) Remote media application streaming data *to* host, in which case it will
> >   be local presentation time on local  soundcard
> >
> >>This value is dominant to the number of events included in an IEC 61883-1
> >>packet. If this TSN subsystem decides it, most of these items don't need
> >>to be in ALSA.
> >
> >Not sure if I understand this correctly.
> >
> >TSN should have a reference to the timing-domain of each *local*
> >sound-device (for local capture or playback) as well as the shared
> >time-reference provided by gPTP.
> >
> >Unless an End-station acts as GrandMaster for the gPTP-domain, time set
> >forth by gPTP is inmutable and cannot be adjusted. It follows that the
> >sample-frequency of the local audio-devices must be adjusted, or the
> >audio-streams to/from said devices must be resampled.
> 
> The ALSA API provides support for 'audio' timestamps
> (playback/capture rate defined by audio subsystem) and 'system'
> timestamps (typically linked to TSC/ART) with one option to take
> synchronized timestamps should the hardware support them.

Ok, this sounds promising, and very much in line with what AVB would need.

> The intent was that the 'audio' timestamps are translated to a
> shared time reference managed in userspace by gPTP, which in turn
> would define if (adaptive) audio sample rate conversion is needed.
> There is no support at the moment for a 'play_at' function in ALSA,
> only means to control a feedback loop.

Ok, I understand that the 'play_at' is difficult to obtain, but it sounds 
like it is doable to achieve something useful.

Looks like I will be looking into what to put in the .trigger-handler in 
the ALSA shim and experimenting with this to see how it make sense to 
connect it from the TSN-stream.

Thanks!

-- 
Henrik Austad

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>
To: Pierre-Louis Bossart <pierre-louis.bossart@linux.intel.com>
Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Takashi Sakamoto <o-takashi@sakamocchi.jp>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@linaro.org>,
	linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [very-RFC 0/8] TSN driver for the kernel
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 13:49:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160620114924.GA8971@sisyphus.home.austad.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9a5abd48-4da3-945d-53c9-b6d37010ab0d@linux.intel.com>


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On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:08:27PM +0200, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
> 
> >Presentation time is either set by
> >a) Local sound card performing capture (in which case it will be 'capture
> >   time')
> >b) Local media application sending a stream accross the network
> >   (time when the sample should be played out remotely)
> >c) Remote media application streaming data *to* host, in which case it will
> >   be local presentation time on local  soundcard
> >
> >>This value is dominant to the number of events included in an IEC 61883-1
> >>packet. If this TSN subsystem decides it, most of these items don't need
> >>to be in ALSA.
> >
> >Not sure if I understand this correctly.
> >
> >TSN should have a reference to the timing-domain of each *local*
> >sound-device (for local capture or playback) as well as the shared
> >time-reference provided by gPTP.
> >
> >Unless an End-station acts as GrandMaster for the gPTP-domain, time set
> >forth by gPTP is inmutable and cannot be adjusted. It follows that the
> >sample-frequency of the local audio-devices must be adjusted, or the
> >audio-streams to/from said devices must be resampled.
> 
> The ALSA API provides support for 'audio' timestamps
> (playback/capture rate defined by audio subsystem) and 'system'
> timestamps (typically linked to TSC/ART) with one option to take
> synchronized timestamps should the hardware support them.

Ok, this sounds promising, and very much in line with what AVB would need.

> The intent was that the 'audio' timestamps are translated to a
> shared time reference managed in userspace by gPTP, which in turn
> would define if (adaptive) audio sample rate conversion is needed.
> There is no support at the moment for a 'play_at' function in ALSA,
> only means to control a feedback loop.

Ok, I understand that the 'play_at' is difficult to obtain, but it sounds 
like it is doable to achieve something useful.

Looks like I will be looking into what to put in the .trigger-handler in 
the ALSA shim and experimenting with this to see how it make sense to 
connect it from the TSN-stream.

Thanks!

-- 
Henrik Austad

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  reply	other threads:[~2016-06-20 11:50 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 145+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-06-11 23:01 [very-RFC 0/8] TSN driver for the kernel Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 1/8] TSN: add documentation Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 2/8] TSN: Add the standard formerly known as AVB to the kernel Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 3/8] Adding TSN-driver to Intel I210 controller Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 4/8] Add TSN header for the driver Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 5/8] Add TSN machinery to drive the traffic from a shim over the network Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 6/8] Add TSN event-tracing Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-12 16:58   ` Steven Rostedt
2016-06-12 16:58   ` Steven Rostedt
2016-06-12 16:58     ` [alsa-devel] " Steven Rostedt
2016-06-12 21:25     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-12 21:25     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-12 21:25       ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-13  2:22       ` Steven Rostedt
2016-06-13  2:22         ` Steven Rostedt
2016-06-13  7:20         ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-13  7:20           ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 7/8] AVB ALSA - Add ALSA shim for TSN Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-15 11:49   ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15 11:49     ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-15 12:13     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-15 12:13       ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-15 12:43       ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15 12:43       ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15 12:43         ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-15 12:13     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-15 11:49   ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-11 23:01 ` [very-RFC 8/8] MAINTAINERS: add TSN/AVB-entries Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 23:01   ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-12  3:38 ` [very-RFC 0/8] TSN driver for the kernel Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-12  3:38   ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-12  4:30   ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-12  8:31     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-12 10:43       ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-12 22:06         ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-12  8:28   ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-12  8:28     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-12  9:14     ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-12  9:14       ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-13 11:47 ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 11:47   ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 13:00   ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-13 13:00     ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-13 19:32     ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 19:32     ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 19:32       ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-14  9:30       ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-14  9:30       ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-14  9:30         ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-14 18:26         ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-14 18:26           ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-14 20:38           ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-14 20:38           ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-14 20:38             ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-15  7:04             ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  7:04               ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  7:50               ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-15  7:50                 ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-15  7:50               ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-15 11:41               ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15 11:41               ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15 11:41                 ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  7:04             ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  7:11             ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  7:11               ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  7:11             ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-14 18:26         ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 19:37     ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 19:37     ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 19:37       ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 13:00   ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-13 13:12   ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-13 13:12   ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-13 13:12     ` [alsa-devel] " Arnd Bergmann
2016-06-13 15:56   ` John Fastabend
2016-06-13 15:56   ` John Fastabend
2016-06-13 15:56     ` [alsa-devel] " John Fastabend
2016-06-14  8:35     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-14  8:35     ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-14  8:35       ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-13 19:51   ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 19:51     ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-14 11:18     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2016-06-14 11:18       ` [alsa-devel] " One Thousand Gnomes
2016-06-14 17:04       ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-14 17:04         ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-14 17:04       ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  3:15       ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-15  8:06         ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-18  5:22           ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-18  5:22             ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-18 22:45             ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-19  9:46               ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-20  8:05                 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-20  8:05                   ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-19 14:45               ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-20  9:06                 ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-20  9:06                   ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-21  2:22                   ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-21  2:22                     ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-20 11:08               ` [alsa-devel] " Pierre-Louis Bossart
2016-06-20 11:08                 ` Pierre-Louis Bossart
2016-06-20 11:49                 ` Henrik Austad [this message]
2016-06-20 11:49                   ` Henrik Austad
2016-06-20 12:18                 ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-20 12:31                   ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-20 15:21                     ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-20 15:21                       ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-21  5:54                       ` [alsa-devel] " Takashi Iwai
2016-06-21  5:54                         ` Takashi Iwai
2016-06-21  6:38                         ` [alsa-devel] " Richard Cochran
2016-06-21  6:38                           ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-21  6:45                           ` [alsa-devel] " Takashi Iwai
2016-06-21  6:45                             ` Takashi Iwai
2016-06-21 17:18                     ` [alsa-devel] " Pierre-Louis Bossart
2016-06-21 17:18                       ` Pierre-Louis Bossart
2016-06-21 17:45                   ` [alsa-devel] " Pierre-Louis Bossart
2016-06-21 19:40                     ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-22 12:36                       ` Pierre-Louis Bossart
2016-06-22 12:36                         ` Pierre-Louis Bossart
2016-06-23 10:38                     ` [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-23 13:28                       ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-15  3:27       ` Takashi Sakamoto
2016-06-14 11:18     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2016-06-13 19:51   ` Richard Cochran
2016-06-13 11:47 ` Richard Cochran
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2016-06-11 22:22 [alsa-devel] " Henrik Austad
2016-06-11 22:49 ` Henrik Austad

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