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From: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
To: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
Cc: kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	David Laight <David.Laight@aculab.com>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@google.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Eric Biggers <ebiggers3@gmail.com>,
	Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>,
	Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Jean-Philippe Aumasson <jeanphilippe.aumasson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 10:54:47 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161222155447.u3ayvw4gmorhswjv@thunk.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHmME9r_zTHo=dxRRK6UrjJ_dKV14yYsZsxCc362z4CPoVkddw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 02:10:33PM +0100, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Hannes Frederic Sowa
> <hannes@stressinduktion.org> wrote:
> > following up on what appears to be a random subject: ;)
> >
> > IIRC, ext4 code by default still uses half_md4 for hashing of filenames
> > in the htree. siphash seems to fit this use case pretty good.
> 
> I saw this too. I'll try to address it in v8 of this series.

This is a separate issue, and this series is getting a bit too
complex.  So I'd suggest pushing this off to a separate change.

Changing the htree hash algorithm is an on-disk format change, and so
we couldn't roll it out until e2fsprogs gets updated and rolled out
pretty broadley.  In fact George sent me patches to add siphash as a
hash algorithm for htree a while back (for both the kernel and
e2fsprogs), but I never got around to testing and applying them,
mainly because while it's technically faster, I had other higher
priority issues to work on --- and see previous comments regarding
pixel peeping.  Improving the hash algorithm by tens or even hundreds
of nanoseconds isn't really going to matter since we only do a htree
lookup on a file creation or cold cache lookup, and the SSD or HDD I/O
times will dominate.  And from the power perspective, saving
microwatts of CPU power isn't going to matter if you're going to be
spinning up the storage device....

						- Ted

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
To: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
Cc: kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	David Laight <David.Laight@aculab.com>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@google.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Eric Biggers <ebiggers3@gmail.com>,
	Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>,
	Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Jean-Philippe Aumasson <jeanphilippe.aumasson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 10:54:47 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161222155447.u3ayvw4gmorhswjv@thunk.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHmME9r_zTHo=dxRRK6UrjJ_dKV14yYsZsxCc362z4CPoVkddw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 02:10:33PM +0100, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Hannes Frederic Sowa
> <hannes@stressinduktion.org> wrote:
> > following up on what appears to be a random subject: ;)
> >
> > IIRC, ext4 code by default still uses half_md4 for hashing of filenames
> > in the htree. siphash seems to fit this use case pretty good.
> 
> I saw this too. I'll try to address it in v8 of this series.

This is a separate issue, and this series is getting a bit too
complex.  So I'd suggest pushing this off to a separate change.

Changing the htree hash algorithm is an on-disk format change, and so
we couldn't roll it out until e2fsprogs gets updated and rolled out
pretty broadley.  In fact George sent me patches to add siphash as a
hash algorithm for htree a while back (for both the kernel and
e2fsprogs), but I never got around to testing and applying them,
mainly because while it's technically faster, I had other higher
priority issues to work on --- and see previous comments regarding
pixel peeping.  Improving the hash algorithm by tens or even hundreds
of nanoseconds isn't really going to matter since we only do a htree
lookup on a file creation or cold cache lookup, and the SSD or HDD I/O
times will dominate.  And from the power perspective, saving
microwatts of CPU power isn't going to matter if you're going to be
spinning up the storage device....

						- Ted

  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-12-22 15:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 179+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-12-15 20:29 [PATCH v5 0/4] The SipHash Patchset Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:29 ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:30 ` [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:30   ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 22:42   ` George Spelvin
2016-12-15 22:42     ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-15 23:00     ` Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-15 23:00       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-15 23:28       ` George Spelvin
2016-12-15 23:28         ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-16 17:06         ` David Laight
2016-12-16 17:06           ` [kernel-hardening] " David Laight
2016-12-16 17:06           ` David Laight
2016-12-16 17:09           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 17:09             ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 17:09             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:46       ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16  3:46         ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-16  8:08         ` Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-16  8:08           ` [kernel-hardening] " Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-16 12:39           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 12:39             ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 13:22             ` Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-16 13:22               ` [kernel-hardening] " Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-16 15:51               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 15:51                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 17:36                 ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 17:36                   ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-16 18:00                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 18:00                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 20:17                     ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:17                       ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:43                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-16 20:43                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-16 22:13                         ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 22:13                           ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-16 22:15                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-16 22:15                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-16 22:15                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-16 22:18                           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 22:18                             ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 23:44                             ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 23:44                               ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-17  1:39                               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-17  1:39                                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-17  2:15                                 ` George Spelvin
2016-12-17  2:15                                   ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-17 15:41                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-17 15:41                                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-17 16:14                                     ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-12-17 16:14                                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jeffrey Walton
2016-12-19 17:21                                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-17 12:42                 ` George Spelvin
2016-12-17 12:42                   ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:39               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 20:39                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 19:47             ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-16 19:47               ` [kernel-hardening] " Tom Herbert
2016-12-16 20:41               ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:41                 ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:57                 ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-16 20:57                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Tom Herbert
2016-12-16 20:44               ` Daniel Micay
2016-12-16 20:44                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Daniel Micay
2016-12-16 21:09                 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-17 15:21               ` George Spelvin
2016-12-17 15:21                 ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-19 14:14                 ` David Laight
2016-12-19 14:14                   ` [kernel-hardening] " David Laight
2016-12-19 14:14                   ` David Laight
2016-12-19 18:10                   ` George Spelvin
2016-12-19 18:10                     ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-19 20:18                     ` Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-19 20:18                       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-16  2:14   ` kbuild test robot
2016-12-16  2:14     ` [kernel-hardening] " kbuild test robot
2016-12-17 14:55   ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-12-17 14:55     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jeffrey Walton
2016-12-19 17:08     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-19 17:08       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-19 17:19       ` Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-19 17:19         ` [kernel-hardening] " Jean-Philippe Aumasson
2016-12-15 20:30 ` [PATCH v5 2/4] siphash: add Nu{32,64} helpers Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:30   ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 10:39   ` David Laight
2016-12-16 10:39     ` [kernel-hardening] " David Laight
2016-12-16 10:39     ` David Laight
2016-12-16 15:44     ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 15:44       ` [kernel-hardening] " George Spelvin
2016-12-15 20:30 ` [PATCH v5 3/4] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:30   ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  9:59   ` David Laight
2016-12-16  9:59     ` [kernel-hardening] " David Laight
2016-12-16  9:59     ` David Laight
2016-12-16 15:57     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 15:57       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 15:57       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:30 ` [PATCH v5 4/4] random: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:30   ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03 ` [PATCH v6 0/5] The SipHash Patchset Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03   ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03   ` [PATCH v6 1/5] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03   ` [PATCH v6 2/5] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03   ` [PATCH v6 3/5] random: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 21:31     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-16 21:31       ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-16 21:31       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-16  3:03   ` [PATCH v6 4/5] md5: remove from lib and only live in crypto Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03   ` [PATCH v6 5/5] syncookies: use SipHash in place of SHA1 Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:03     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02   ` [PATCH v7 0/6] The SipHash Patchset Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02     ` [PATCH v7 1/6] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  1:40       ` Stephen Hemminger
2016-12-22  1:40         ` [kernel-hardening] " Stephen Hemminger
2016-12-21 23:02     ` [PATCH v7 2/6] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02     ` [PATCH v7 3/6] random: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:13       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:13         ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:42       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-21 23:42         ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-21 23:42         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-22  2:07         ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22  2:07           ` [kernel-hardening] " Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22  2:07           ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22  2:09           ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-22  2:09             ` [kernel-hardening] " Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-22  2:09             ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-22  2:49           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  2:49             ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  2:49             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  3:12             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  3:12               ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  3:12               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  5:41             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-22  5:41               ` [kernel-hardening] " Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-22  6:03               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 15:58                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-22 15:58                   ` [kernel-hardening] " Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-22 16:16                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 16:16                     ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 16:30                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-22 16:36                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 12:47               ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 12:47                 ` [kernel-hardening] " Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 13:10                 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 15:05                   ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 15:12                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 15:29                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 15:33                         ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 15:33                           ` [kernel-hardening] " Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 15:41                           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 15:51                             ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 15:51                               ` [kernel-hardening] " Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 15:53                               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 15:54                   ` Theodore Ts'o [this message]
2016-12-22 15:54                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-22 18:08                     ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2016-12-22 18:13                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 18:13                         ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22 19:50                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-22  2:31         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  2:31           ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  2:31           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02     ` [PATCH v7 4/6] md5: remove from lib and only live in crypto Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02     ` [PATCH v7 5/6] syncookies: use SipHash in place of SHA1 Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02     ` [PATCH v7 6/6] siphash: implement HalfSipHash1-3 for hash tables Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-21 23:02       ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-22  0:46       ` Andi Kleen
2016-12-22  0:46         ` [kernel-hardening] " Andi Kleen

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