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From: Gerd Hoffmann <kraxel@redhat.com>
To: Helge Deller <deller@gmx.de>
Cc: Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch>,
	Linux Fbdev development list <linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	Sven Schnelle <svens@stackframe.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	DRI Development <dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	Javier Martinez Canillas <javierm@redhat.com>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@suse.de>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: Add Helge as fbdev maintainer
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 10:16:15 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20220118091615.3ih5n7vhd6tgmnku@sirius.home.kraxel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ebe9c076-e2a9-0cb7-eb6a-ae71c075975e@gmx.de>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 09:20:43AM +0100, Helge Deller wrote:
> On 1/18/22 07:29, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> >> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but text-console emulation/scrolling on DRM is
> >> currently unaccelerated and bound to Truecolour modes only,
> >
> > Yes.  Adding support for formats beside argb8888 to the drm fbcon
> > emulation shouldn't be that much of a problem though.
> 
> Really? Assuming a graphic card which runs with only 256 colors framebuffer
> is easily supported by DRM, and you can use fbcon without using lots of memcpy()?

Driver: programming a fixed color cube palette, then use RGB332.

fbcon/fbdev emulation: RGB332 support must be added I think.  But both
argb888 and rgb565 are supported today, so it should not be hard to find
the places where you have to add some code to handle RGB332 too.

> > Acceleration is harder.  The scroll acceleration had issues nobody
> > addressed for years, and on modern hardware it is simply not used, which
> > is probably the reason nobody stepped up fixing things and it ended up
> > being dropped.
> 
> The DRM layer doesn't use scroll acceleration.
> More than 30 other existing fbdev drivers use it.

Yes.  The world shifted from 2d acceleration to 3d acceleration.  Modern
hardware simply has no classic blitter any more.  Which is a problem
when it comes to keeping scroll acceleration alive, it is already a very
niche use case and it will only become worse ...

> > Bringing it back is much more work than just reverting the commits removing it.
> 
> Reverting those commits have no effect on DRM's usage of fbcon.
> But reverting those commits bring back scroll acceleration for all others.
> I'm trying to find out which patches did apparently fixed such issues
> for the REDRAW case. If you have a pointer it would be helpful.

IIRC the code had a bunch of races and syzkaller flagged problems.
I didn't follow very closely though.

take care,
  Gerd


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Gerd Hoffmann <kraxel@redhat.com>
To: Helge Deller <deller@gmx.de>
Cc: Linux Fbdev development list <linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@suse.de>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	DRI Development <dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	Javier Martinez Canillas <javierm@redhat.com>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Sven Schnelle <svens@stackframe.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: Add Helge as fbdev maintainer
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 10:16:15 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20220118091615.3ih5n7vhd6tgmnku@sirius.home.kraxel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ebe9c076-e2a9-0cb7-eb6a-ae71c075975e@gmx.de>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 09:20:43AM +0100, Helge Deller wrote:
> On 1/18/22 07:29, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> >> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but text-console emulation/scrolling on DRM is
> >> currently unaccelerated and bound to Truecolour modes only,
> >
> > Yes.  Adding support for formats beside argb8888 to the drm fbcon
> > emulation shouldn't be that much of a problem though.
> 
> Really? Assuming a graphic card which runs with only 256 colors framebuffer
> is easily supported by DRM, and you can use fbcon without using lots of memcpy()?

Driver: programming a fixed color cube palette, then use RGB332.

fbcon/fbdev emulation: RGB332 support must be added I think.  But both
argb888 and rgb565 are supported today, so it should not be hard to find
the places where you have to add some code to handle RGB332 too.

> > Acceleration is harder.  The scroll acceleration had issues nobody
> > addressed for years, and on modern hardware it is simply not used, which
> > is probably the reason nobody stepped up fixing things and it ended up
> > being dropped.
> 
> The DRM layer doesn't use scroll acceleration.
> More than 30 other existing fbdev drivers use it.

Yes.  The world shifted from 2d acceleration to 3d acceleration.  Modern
hardware simply has no classic blitter any more.  Which is a problem
when it comes to keeping scroll acceleration alive, it is already a very
niche use case and it will only become worse ...

> > Bringing it back is much more work than just reverting the commits removing it.
> 
> Reverting those commits have no effect on DRM's usage of fbcon.
> But reverting those commits bring back scroll acceleration for all others.
> I'm trying to find out which patches did apparently fixed such issues
> for the REDRAW case. If you have a pointer it would be helpful.

IIRC the code had a bunch of races and syzkaller flagged problems.
I didn't follow very closely though.

take care,
  Gerd


  reply	other threads:[~2022-01-18  9:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 149+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-14 18:11 [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: Add Helge as fbdev maintainer Helge Deller
2022-01-14 18:31 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-14 18:31   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-17  9:48 ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17  9:48   ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 10:02 ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 10:02   ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 10:19   ` Javier Martinez Canillas
2022-01-17 10:19     ` Javier Martinez Canillas
2022-01-17 10:49   ` Jani Nikula
2022-01-17 10:57     ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 12:15   ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 12:15     ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 12:57     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-17 12:57       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-17 13:29       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-17 13:29         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-17 13:51         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 13:51           ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 14:10           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-17 14:10             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-17 14:47             ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 14:47               ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 15:03               ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 15:03                 ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 20:17                 ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 20:17                   ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  6:29                   ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18  6:29                     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18  8:10                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-18  8:10                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-18 11:44                       ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 11:44                         ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 14:23                       ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-18 14:23                         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-18 14:39                         ` Simon Ser
2022-01-18 14:39                           ` Simon Ser
2022-01-20 12:50                         ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-20 12:50                           ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-21  8:55                           ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-21  8:55                             ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-24 18:38                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-24 18:38                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-24 18:50                               ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-24 18:50                                 ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-24 19:05                               ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-24 19:05                                 ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-18  8:20                     ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  8:20                       ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  9:16                       ` Gerd Hoffmann [this message]
2022-01-18  9:16                         ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18 10:13                         ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18 10:13                           ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18 10:44                           ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18 10:44                             ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18 12:48                           ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18 12:48                             ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-17 15:05               ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 15:05                 ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 16:05                 ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 16:05                   ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 14:53             ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 14:53               ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-18  6:11         ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18  6:11           ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18  8:09           ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  8:09             ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 15:00     ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 15:00       ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 15:42       ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 15:42         ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 15:56         ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 15:56           ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 15:58         ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 15:58           ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 16:21           ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 16:21             ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 16:38             ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 16:38               ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-17 17:19               ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 17:19                 ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 19:45             ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 19:45               ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 21:55               ` Ilia Mirkin
2022-01-17 21:55                 ` Ilia Mirkin
2022-01-18 11:14                 ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 11:14                   ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 14:14             ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-18 14:14               ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 21:40           ` Jani Nikula
2022-01-17 21:40             ` Jani Nikula
2022-01-17 21:44             ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 21:44               ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  8:38               ` Jani Nikula
2022-01-18  8:38                 ` Jani Nikula
2022-01-18  8:41                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-18  8:41                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-18 11:41                   ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 11:41                     ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 12:11                     ` Simon Ser
2022-01-18 12:11                       ` Simon Ser
2022-01-18  8:54                 ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  8:54                   ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  9:33                   ` Javier Martinez Canillas
2022-01-18  9:33                     ` Javier Martinez Canillas
2022-01-18  9:45                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-18  9:45                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-18 11:18                   ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 11:18                     ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 11:42                     ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18 11:42                       ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  8:41       ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  8:41         ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  9:12         ` Helge Deller
2022-01-18  9:12           ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 11:16 ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 11:33   ` Helge Deller
2022-01-17 12:13     ` Thomas Zimmermann
2022-01-17 18:47   ` Sven Schnelle
2022-01-18  8:33     ` Pekka Paalanen
2022-01-18  8:33       ` Pekka Paalanen
2022-01-18  9:53       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18  9:53         ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18 11:22         ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 11:22           ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-18 12:07           ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18 12:07             ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-19  8:39         ` Pekka Paalanen
2022-01-19  8:39           ` Pekka Paalanen
2022-01-20  9:06         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-20  9:06           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-20 11:32           ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-20 11:32             ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-20 12:13             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-20 12:13               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-20 12:33               ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-20 12:33                 ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-20 12:46                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-20 12:46                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-24 18:50                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-24 18:50                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-01-24 19:37                   ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-24 19:37                     ` Daniel Vetter
2022-01-20 11:51           ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-20 11:51             ` Gerd Hoffmann
2022-01-18  8:58     ` Michel Dänzer
2022-01-18 10:05       ` Sven Schnelle
2022-01-18 10:05         ` Sven Schnelle
2022-01-18 14:06     ` Thomas Zimmermann

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