* [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700
@ 2008-02-09 15:34 Eduard Huguet
2008-02-09 21:14 ` Matthias Schwarzott
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-09 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-dvb, Matthias Schwarzott
Hi, Matthias
I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card.
Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on
Astra (the sat. my dish points to).
However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with your
driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR when
scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low signal I
have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: you were
using default values of 0 for all (in zl1003x_set_gain_params()
function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), and I've changed them top the
maximum (according to the documentation: rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm
getting a 18% signal level, which is higher but still too low apparently
to get a lock.
I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background
to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as
maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done.
Best regards,
Eduard
PD: the satelite dish is on the top of the building and it's shared
(this is a 15-floor building). This is probably the reason I get a
signal that low. Anyway, I think I still should be able to use the card,
but maybe I'm wrong and I need to pre-amplify the signal.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-09 15:34 [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-09 21:14 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-10 10:20 ` Eduard Huguet 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-09 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eduard Huguet; +Cc: linux-dvb On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > Hi, Matthias Hi Eduard! > I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. > Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on > Astra (the sat. my dish points to). > > However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with your > driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR when > scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low signal I > have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: you were > using default values of 0 for all (in zl1003x_set_gain_params() > function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), and I've changed them top the > maximum (according to the documentation: rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm > getting a 18% signal level, which is higher but still too low apparently > to get a lock. > > I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background > to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as > maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. > So I can do only this guess: I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { .demod_address = 0x0e, .voltage_inverted = 1, }; Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: line 865). BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs this enabled/disabled. Regards Matthias -- Matthias Schwarzott (zzam) _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-09 21:14 ` Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-10 10:20 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-11 9:18 ` Eduard Huguet ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-10 10:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthias Schwarzott; +Cc: linux-dvb [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2022 bytes --] En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: > On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > >> Hi, Matthias >> > Hi Eduard! > > >> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. >> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on >> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). >> >> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with your >> driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR when >> scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low signal I >> have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: you were >> using default values of 0 for all (in zl1003x_set_gain_params() >> function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), and I've changed them top the >> maximum (according to the documentation: rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm >> getting a 18% signal level, which is higher but still too low apparently >> to get a lock. >> >> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background >> to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as >> maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. >> >> > > So I can do only this guess: > I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. > This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. > > static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { > .demod_address = 0x0e, > .voltage_inverted = 1, > }; > > Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: line > 865). > > BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs this > enabled/disabled. > > Regards > Matthias > > Hi, Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted member doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect that there is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it later using an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows computer and using the supplied drivers. Regards, Eduard [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2483 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 150 bytes --] _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-10 10:20 ` Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-11 9:18 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-11 9:20 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-13 13:33 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-11 9:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthias Schwarzott; +Cc: linux-dvb [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2600 bytes --] En/na Eduard Huguet ha escrit: > En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: >> On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: >> >>> Hi, Matthias >>> >> Hi Eduard! >> >> >>> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. >>> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on >>> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). >>> >>> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with your >>> driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR when >>> scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low signal I >>> have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: you were >>> using default values of 0 for all (in zl1003x_set_gain_params() >>> function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), and I've changed them top the >>> maximum (according to the documentation: rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm >>> getting a 18% signal level, which is higher but still too low apparently >>> to get a lock. >>> >>> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background >>> to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as >>> maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. >>> >>> >> >> So I can do only this guess: >> I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. >> This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. >> >> static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { >> .demod_address = 0x0e, >> .voltage_inverted = 1, >> }; >> >> Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: line >> 865). >> >> BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs this >> enabled/disabled. >> >> Regards >> Matthias >> >> > Hi, > Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted > member doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect > that there is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it > later using an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows > computer and using the supplied drivers. > > Regards, > Eduard > > Hi again... Just some more feedback: I've unplugged the card and put it onto a different PC running both Windows and Gentoo. In Windows the card runs perfectly, I can see all the (free) channels, so I can be sure there's no problem with my antennae setup. In Linux it doesn't work, neither in this PC (P4 running Gentoo 32) nor in the mediacenter PC (AMD AthlonXP running Gentoo 64). It seems we are missing something fundamental here... :( Best regards, Eduard [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3237 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 150 bytes --] _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-10 10:20 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-11 9:18 ` Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-11 9:20 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-12 21:08 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 13:33 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-11 9:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthias Schwarzott; +Cc: linux-dvb [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2382 bytes --] En/na Eduard Huguet ha escrit: > En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: >> On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: >> >>> Hi, Matthias >>> >> Hi Eduard! >> >> >>> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. >>> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on >>> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). >>> >>> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with your >>> driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR when >>> scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low signal I >>> have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: you were >>> using default values of 0 for all (in zl1003x_set_gain_params() >>> function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), and I've changed them top the >>> maximum (according to the documentation: rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm >>> getting a 18% signal level, which is higher but still too low apparently >>> to get a lock. >>> >>> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background >>> to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as >>> maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. >>> >>> >> >> So I can do only this guess: >> I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. >> This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. >> >> static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { >> .demod_address = 0x0e, >> .voltage_inverted = 1, >> }; >> >> Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: line >> 865). >> >> BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs this >> enabled/disabled. >> >> Regards >> Matthias >> >> > Hi, > Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted > member doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect > that there is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it > later using an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows > computer and using the supplied drivers. > > Regards, > Eduard > > By the way (sorry if I'm being molest...): I will leave the card in this PC for now, as it's easier fo me to test and develop. As I have also Windows here ¿is there any way we could do any reverse enginnering from Windows driver, etc...? Regards, Eduard [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2988 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 150 bytes --] _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-11 9:20 ` Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-12 21:08 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 12:23 ` Eduard Huguet 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-12 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eduard Huguet; +Cc: linux-dvb On Monday 11 February 2008, you wrote: > En/na Eduard Huguet ha escrit: > > En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: > >> On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > >>> Hi, Matthias > >> > >> Hi Eduard! > >> > >>> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. > >>> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on > >>> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). > >>> > >>> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with > >>> your driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR > >>> when scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low > >>> signal I have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: > >>> you were using default values of 0 for all (in > >>> zl1003x_set_gain_params() function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), > >>> and I've changed them top the maximum (according to the documentation: > >>> rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm getting a 18% signal level, which is > >>> higher but still too low apparently to get a lock. > >>> > >>> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background > >>> to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as > >>> maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. > >> > >> So I can do only this guess: > >> I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. > >> This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. > >> > >> static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { > >> .demod_address = 0x0e, > >> .voltage_inverted = 1, > >> }; > >> > >> Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: > >> line 865). > >> > >> BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs > >> this enabled/disabled. > >> > >> Regards > >> Matthias > > > > Hi, > > Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted > > member doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect > > that there is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it > > later using an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows > > computer and using the supplied drivers. > > > > Regards, > > Eduard > > By the way (sorry if I'm being molest...): I will leave the card in this > PC for now, as it's easier fo me to test and develop. As I have also > Windows here ¿is there any way we could do any reverse enginnering from > Windows driver, etc...? > I already asked you to compare eeprom output in dmesg. But did you also compare GPIO messages - like init-values read after startup (to detect different wiring)? This is from my dmesg output: "saa7133[0]: board init: gpio is a600" Or just attach dmesg output after a cold boot and loading saa7134 driver (with i2c_scan=1). Maybe I create a patch where you can select the other existing zl10313 driver. So we can compare the logs / functionality. Matthias -- Matthias Schwarzott (zzam) _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-12 21:08 ` Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-13 12:23 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-13 13:29 ` Matthias Schwarzott 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-13 12:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthias Schwarzott; +Cc: linux-dvb [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6326 bytes --] En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: > On Monday 11 February 2008, you wrote: > >> En/na Eduard Huguet ha escrit: >> >>> En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: >>> >>>> On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Matthias >>>>> >>>> Hi Eduard! >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. >>>>> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on >>>>> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). >>>>> >>>>> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with >>>>> your driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR >>>>> when scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low >>>>> signal I have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: >>>>> you were using default values of 0 for all (in >>>>> zl1003x_set_gain_params() function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), >>>>> and I've changed them top the maximum (according to the documentation: >>>>> rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm getting a 18% signal level, which is >>>>> higher but still too low apparently to get a lock. >>>>> >>>>> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background >>>>> to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as >>>>> maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. >>>>> >>>> So I can do only this guess: >>>> I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. >>>> This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. >>>> >>>> static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { >>>> .demod_address = 0x0e, >>>> .voltage_inverted = 1, >>>> }; >>>> >>>> Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: >>>> line 865). >>>> >>>> BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs >>>> this enabled/disabled. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Matthias >>>> >>> Hi, >>> Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted >>> member doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect >>> that there is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it >>> later using an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows >>> computer and using the supplied drivers. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Eduard >>> >> By the way (sorry if I'm being molest...): I will leave the card in this >> PC for now, as it's easier fo me to test and develop. As I have also >> Windows here ¿is there any way we could do any reverse enginnering from >> Windows driver, etc...? >> >> > > I already asked you to compare eeprom output in dmesg. But did you also > compare GPIO messages - like init-values read after startup (to detect > different wiring)? > This is from my dmesg output: "saa7133[0]: board init: gpio is a600" > > Or just attach dmesg output after a cold boot and loading saa7134 driver (with > i2c_scan=1). > > Maybe I create a patch where you can select the other existing zl10313 driver. > So we can compare the logs / functionality. > > Matthias > > Hi, Here you have the dmesg output of "modprobe saa7134 i2c_scan=1": [ 773.619247] saa7133[0]: found at 0000:00:09.0, rev: 209, irq: 23, latency: 64, mmio: 0xf7ffa800 [ 773.619258] saa7133[0]: subsystem: 1461:a7a1, board: Avermedia A700 [card=132,autodetected] [ 773.619273] saa7133[0]: board init: gpio is 2f200 [ 773.865218] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 00: 61 14 a1 a7 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865270] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 10: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865312] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 20: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865351] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 30: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865393] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 40: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865433] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 50: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865459] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 60: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865702] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 70: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865727] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 80: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865753] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 90: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865780] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom a0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865810] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom b0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865840] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom c0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865868] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom d0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865897] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom e0: 00 01 81 af ea b5 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.865923] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom f0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 773.870157] saa7133[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x1c [???] [ 773.883118] saa7133[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0 [eeprom] [ 773.891907] saa7133[0]: registered device video0 [v4l2] [ 773.892250] saa7133[0]: registered device vbi0 [ 774.011780] zl1003x_attach: tuner initialization (Zarlink ZL10036 addr=0x60) ok [ 774.011805] DVB: registering new adapter (saa7133[0]) [ 774.011819] DVB: registering frontend 0 (Zarlink ZL10313 DVB-S)... These are the results of "lspci -vvnn" (after loading the driver): 00:09.0 Multimedia controller [0480]: Philips Semiconductors SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder [1131:7133] (rev d1) Subsystem: Avermedia Technologies Inc Unknown device [1461:a7a1] Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B- DisINTx- Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx- Latency: 64 (63750ns min, 63750ns max) Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 23 Region 0: Memory at f7ffa800 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=2K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-) Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=3 PME- Kernel driver in use: saa7134 Kernel modules: saa7134 If you need anything else just let me know. Regards, Eduard [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 7291 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 150 bytes --] _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-13 12:23 ` Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-13 13:29 ` Matthias Schwarzott 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-13 13:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eduard Huguet; +Cc: linux-dvb On Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > Hi, > Here you have the dmesg output of "modprobe saa7134 i2c_scan=1": > > [ 773.619247] saa7133[0]: found at 0000:00:09.0, rev: 209, irq: 23, > latency: 64, mmio: 0xf7ffa800 > [ 773.619258] saa7133[0]: subsystem: 1461:a7a1, board: Avermedia A700 > [card=132,autodetected] > [ 773.619273] saa7133[0]: board init: gpio is 2f200 > [ 773.865218] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 00: 61 14 a1 a7 ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865270] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 10: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865312] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 20: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865351] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 30: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865393] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 40: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865433] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 50: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865459] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 60: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865702] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 70: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865727] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 80: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865753] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 90: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865780] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom a0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865810] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom b0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865840] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom c0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865868] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom d0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865897] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom e0: 00 01 81 af ea b5 ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.865923] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom f0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff > ff ff ff ff ff ff > [ 773.870157] saa7133[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x1c [???] > [ 773.883118] saa7133[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0 [eeprom] > [ 773.891907] saa7133[0]: registered device video0 [v4l2] > [ 773.892250] saa7133[0]: registered device vbi0 > [ 774.011780] zl1003x_attach: tuner initialization (Zarlink ZL10036 > addr=0x60) ok > [ 774.011805] DVB: registering new adapter (saa7133[0]) > [ 774.011819] DVB: registering frontend 0 (Zarlink ZL10313 DVB-S)... > > > These are the results of "lspci -vvnn" (after loading the driver): > > 00:09.0 Multimedia controller [0480]: Philips Semiconductors > SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder [1131:7133] (rev d1) > Subsystem: Avermedia Technologies Inc Unknown device [1461:a7a1] > Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- > ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B- DisINTx- > Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- > <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx- > Latency: 64 (63750ns min, 63750ns max) > Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 23 > Region 0: Memory at f7ffa800 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=2K] > Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 > Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA > PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-) > Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=3 PME- > Kernel driver in use: saa7134 > Kernel modules: saa7134 > added note about different gpio values and eeprom content to wiki. Regards Matthias -- Matthias Schwarzott (zzam) _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-10 10:20 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-11 9:18 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-11 9:20 ` Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-13 13:33 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 15:37 ` Eduard Huguet 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-13 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eduard Huguet; +Cc: linux-dvb On Sonntag, 10. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: > > On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > >> Hi, Matthias > > > > Hi Eduard! > > > >> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. > >> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on > >> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). > >> > >> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with your > >> driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR when > >> scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low signal I > >> have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: you were > >> using default values of 0 for all (in zl1003x_set_gain_params() > >> function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), and I've changed them top the > >> maximum (according to the documentation: rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm > >> getting a 18% signal level, which is higher but still too low apparently > >> to get a lock. > >> > >> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background > >> to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as > >> maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. > > > > So I can do only this guess: > > I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. > > This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. > > > > static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { > > .demod_address = 0x0e, > > .voltage_inverted = 1, > > }; > > > > Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: > > line 865). > > > > BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs > > this enabled/disabled. > > > > Regards > > Matthias > > Hi, > Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted member > doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect that there > is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it later using > an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows computer and > using the supplied drivers. > Even better: Tune to a channel and measure the voltage the card outputs on LNB connector. Regards Matthias -- Matthias Schwarzott (zzam) _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-13 13:33 ` Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-13 15:37 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-13 15:51 ` Matthias Schwarzott 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-13 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthias Schwarzott; +Cc: linux-dvb [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2582 bytes --] En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: > On Sonntag, 10. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > >> En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: >> >>> On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Matthias >>>> >>> Hi Eduard! >>> >>> >>>> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. >>>> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on >>>> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). >>>> >>>> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with your >>>> driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR when >>>> scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low signal I >>>> have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: you were >>>> using default values of 0 for all (in zl1003x_set_gain_params() >>>> function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), and I've changed them top the >>>> maximum (according to the documentation: rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm >>>> getting a 18% signal level, which is higher but still too low apparently >>>> to get a lock. >>>> >>>> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary background >>>> to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with you, as >>>> maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could be done. >>>> >>> So I can do only this guess: >>> I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 card. >>> This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. >>> >>> static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { >>> .demod_address = 0x0e, >>> .voltage_inverted = 1, >>> }; >>> >>> Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: >>> line 865). >>> >>> BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs >>> this enabled/disabled. >>> >>> Regards >>> Matthias >>> >> Hi, >> Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted member >> doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect that there >> is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it later using >> an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows computer and >> using the supplied drivers. >> >> > Even better: Tune to a channel and measure the voltage the card outputs on LNB > connector. > > Regards > Matthias > > Oops :D. Could you please elaborate a bit on this? I don't know what is the LNB connector you are referring to. Plus, I don't have right now any voltimeter, but if needed I'll grab one from work tomorrow. Regards, Eduard [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3246 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 150 bytes --] _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-13 15:37 ` Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-13 15:51 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 16:03 ` Eduard Huguet 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-13 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eduard Huguet; +Cc: linux-dvb On Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: > > On Sonntag, 10. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > >> En/na Matthias Schwarzott ha escrit: > >>> On Samstag, 9. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > >>>> Hi, Matthias > >>> > >>> Hi Eduard! > >>> > >>>> I've been performing some tests using your patch for this card. > >>>> Right now neither dvbscan nor kaffeine are able to find any channel on > >>>> Astra (the sat. my dish points to). > >>>> > >>>> However, Kaffeine has been giving me some interesting results: with > >>>> your driver "as is" it's getting me a 13-14% signal level and ~52% SNR > >>>> when scanning. Then, thinking that the problem is related to the low > >>>> signal I have I've changed the gain levels used to program the tuner: > >>>> you were using default values of 0 for all (in > >>>> zl1003x_set_gain_params() function, variables "rfg", "ba" and "bg"), > >>>> and I've changed them top the maximum (according to the documentation: > >>>> rfg=1, ba=bg=3). With that, I'm getting a 18% signal level, which is > >>>> higher but still too low apparently to get a lock. > >>>> > >>>> I've stopped here, because I really don't have the necessary > >>>> background to keep tweaking the driver. I just wanted to share it with > >>>> you, as maybe you have some idea on how to continue or what else could > >>>> be done. > >>> > >>> So I can do only this guess: > >>> I changed demod driver to invert the Polarization voltage for a700 > >>> card. This is controlled by member-variable voltage_inverted. > >>> > >>> static struct mt312_config avertv_a700_mt312 = { > >>> .demod_address = 0x0e, > >>> .voltage_inverted = 1, > >>> }; > >>> > >>> Can you try to comment the voltage_inverted line here (saa7134-dvb.c: > >>> line 865). > >>> > >>> BUT: If this helps we need to find out how to detect which card needs > >>> this enabled/disabled. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> Matthias > >> > >> Hi, > >> Nothing :(. Removing (or setting it to 0) the voltage_inverted member > >> doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm starting to suspect that there > >> is something wrong with my antennae setup, so I'll test it later using > >> an standalone STB or by plugging the card into a Windows computer and > >> using the supplied drivers. > > > > Even better: Tune to a channel and measure the voltage the card outputs > > on LNB connector. > > > > Regards > > Matthias > > Oops :D. Could you please elaborate a bit on this? I don't know what is > the LNB connector you are referring to. Plus, I don't have right now any > voltimeter, but if needed I'll grab one from work tomorrow. > So, as I started playing with my A700 card, I discovered that the input-connector on the card, where one attaches the coax-cable to the lnb/dish, sent out wrong voltage. 13V / 18V was swapped. So I patched mt312 driver and added the setting voltage_inverted to reverse it. Instead of just guessing what happens it is interesting to just call the dvb-apps example app set_voltage and measure what voltage the hw outputs. Regards Matthias -- Matthias Schwarzott (zzam) _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-13 15:51 ` Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-13 16:03 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-17 19:40 ` Matthias Schwarzott 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-13 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthias Schwarzott; +Cc: linux-dvb [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1015 bytes --] (remove previous for clarity...) Oops :D. Could you please elaborate a bit on this? I don't know what is >> the LNB connector you are referring to. Plus, I don't have right now any >> voltimeter, but if needed I'll grab one from work tomorrow. >> >> > > So, as I started playing with my A700 card, I discovered that the > input-connector on the card, where one attaches the coax-cable to the > lnb/dish, sent out wrong voltage. > > 13V / 18V was swapped. So I patched mt312 driver and added the setting > voltage_inverted to reverse it. > Instead of just guessing what happens it is interesting to just call the > dvb-apps example app set_voltage and measure what voltage the hw outputs. > > Regards > Matthias OK, I don't know exactly what you mean, but I'll try to measure the output voltage of the input connector. I think you mean this, don't you? BTW, ¿where is the set_voltage app? I have media-tv/linuxtv-dvb-apps package installed and there is nothing with that name... Regards, Eduard [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1454 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 150 bytes --] _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-13 16:03 ` Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-17 19:40 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-18 11:28 ` Eduard Huguet 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-17 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eduard Huguet; +Cc: linux-dvb On Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > > OK, I don't know exactly what you mean, but I'll try to measure the > output voltage of the input connector. I think you mean this, don't you? > > BTW, ¿where is the set_voltage app? I have media-tv/linuxtv-dvb-apps > package installed and there is nothing with that name... > Another thing you can try is: Boot windows and look at the GPIO values. (See v4l wiki for how to do this using regspy). Use my latest diff, and try loading saa7134 with use_frontend=1 to use the alternative zl10313 driver. Regards Matthias -- Matthias Schwarzott (zzam) _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 2008-02-17 19:40 ` Matthias Schwarzott @ 2008-02-18 11:28 ` Eduard Huguet 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Eduard Huguet @ 2008-02-18 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthias Schwarzott; +Cc: linux-dvb [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4871 bytes --] 2008/2/17, Matthias Schwarzott <zzam@gentoo.org <mailto:zzam@gentoo.org>>: On Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2008, Eduard Huguet wrote: > > OK, I don't know exactly what you mean, but I'll try to measure the > output voltage of the input connector. I think you mean this, don't you? > > BTW, ¿where is the set_voltage app? I have media-tv/linuxtv-dvb-apps > package installed and there is nothing with that name... > Another thing you can try is: Boot windows and look at the GPIO values. (See v4l wiki for how to do this using regspy). Use my latest diff, and try loading saa7134 with use_frontend=1 to use the alternative zl10313 driver. Regards Matthias -- Matthias Schwarzott (zzam) Hi, I've tried regspy (and regmon from sysinternals), but I really haven't found anything relevant. ¿What exactly should I look for? The V4L wiki is not very clear about it... Anyway, I also tried the use_frontend=1 option for saa7134-dvb and I got more or less the same results: $ dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-s/Astra-19.2E scanning /usr/share/dvb/dvb-s/Astra-19.2E using '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0' and '/dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0' initial transponder 12551500 V 22000000 5 > >> tune to: 12551:v:0:22000 DVB-S IF freq is 1951500 WARNING: >>> tuning failed!!! > >> tune to: 12551:v:0:22000 (tuning failed) DVB-S IF freq is 1951500 WARNING: >>> tuning failed!!! ERROR: initial tuning failed dumping lists (0 services) Done. The only difference with this frontend is that in Kaffeine I'm getting now a 0% signal level and a 99% SNR level. No idea why... BTW, I've checked again the dmesg output of modprobe saa7134 after a cold boot (full power cycle: powering off, unplugged power cord and pressed power button to ensure the capacitors are emptied, so there is absolutely no remanent voltage in the motherboard...), and this is what I get: [ 116.429358] saa7130/34: v4l2 driver version 0.2.14 loaded [ 116.431261] ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:00:09.0[A] -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> IRQ 23 [ 116.431369] saa7133[0]: found at 0000:00:09.0, rev: 209, irq: 23, latency: 64, mmio: 0xf7ffa800 [ 116.431435] saa7133[0]: subsystem: 1461:a7a1, board: Avermedia DVB-S Pro A700 [card=133,autodetected] [ 116.431519] saa7133[0]: board init: gpio is *202f600* [ 116.696295] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 00: 61 14 a1 a7 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696321] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 10: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696358] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 20: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696372] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 30: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696386] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 40: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696400] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 50: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696415] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 60: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696429] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 70: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696443] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 80: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696456] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom 90: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696469] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom a0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696482] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom b0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696498] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom c0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696513] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom d0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696535] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom e0: *00 01 81 af ea b5* ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.696557] saa7133[0]: i2c eeprom f0: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff [ 116.700280] saa7133[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x1c [???] [ 116.713245] saa7133[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0 [eeprom] [ 116.723550] saa7133[0]: registered device video0 [v4l2] [ 116.725685] saa7133[0]: registered device vbi0 [ 117.256803] demodulator: zl10313: Demodulator attached @ i2c address 0x0e [ 117.284726] zl1003x: zl1003x: Power-On-Reset bit enabled - may need to reinitialize tuner [ 117.284743] zl1003x: zl10036_init_regs [ 117.302667] zl1003x_attach: tuner initialization (Zarlink ZL10036 addr=0x60) ok [ 117.302687] DVB: registering new adapter (saa7133[0]) [ 117.302719] DVB: registering frontend 0 (Zarlink ZL10313 DVB-S)... [ 117.335612] zl1003x: zl1003x_sleep As you can see, the initial gpio value is different from what is listed in the wiki for my card (2f200). Also the contents of the eeprom are also different, and surprisingly matches the ones listed for the hybrid version. I suppose that this is mistake in the wiki entry, as I can assure you that my card is the standard DVB-S Pro... Best regards, Eduard [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 6924 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 150 bytes --] _______________________________________________ linux-dvb mailing list linux-dvb@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-02-18 11:33 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-02-09 15:34 [linux-dvb] Some tests on Avermedia A700 Eduard Huguet 2008-02-09 21:14 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-10 10:20 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-11 9:18 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-11 9:20 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-12 21:08 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 12:23 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-13 13:29 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 13:33 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 15:37 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-13 15:51 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-13 16:03 ` Eduard Huguet 2008-02-17 19:40 ` Matthias Schwarzott 2008-02-18 11:28 ` Eduard Huguet
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