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* "metadata": plural or singular or both?
@ 2021-07-21 16:11 Michael Opdenacker
  2021-07-21 16:20 ` [docs] " Richard Purdie
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Opdenacker @ 2021-07-21 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: YP docs mailing list

Greetings,

I'm currently reading BitBake's documentation, and I'm always
uncomfortable when I read "Metadata is", while I know that in English
and in Latin, "data" is the plural of "datum". However, many people seem
to use "data" as singular.

I also find confusing that actually "metadata" is both used:

  * in plural form as in: "Split metadata into layers and allow layers
    to enhance or override other layers."
  * in singular form as in: "Metadata is stored in recipe (|.bb|) and
    related recipe “append” (|.bbappend|) files"

How do you feel about this? I'm especially interested in the feedback
from native English speakers, which I'm not.

Thank you in advance,

Michael.

-- 
Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: [docs] "metadata": plural or singular or both?
  2021-07-21 16:11 "metadata": plural or singular or both? Michael Opdenacker
@ 2021-07-21 16:20 ` Richard Purdie
  2021-07-21 17:04   ` Michael Opdenacker
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Richard Purdie @ 2021-07-21 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Opdenacker, YP docs mailing list

Hi Michael,

On Wed, 2021-07-21 at 18:11 +0200, Michael Opdenacker wrote:
> I'm currently reading BitBake's documentation, and I'm always
> uncomfortable when I read "Metadata is", while I know that in English
> and in Latin, "data" is the plural of "datum". However, many people seem
> to use "data" as singular.
> 
> I also find confusing that actually "metadata" is both used:
> 
>   * in plural form as in: "Split metadata into layers and allow layers
>     to enhance or override other layers."
>   * in singular form as in: "Metadata is stored in recipe (|.bb|) and
>     related recipe “append” (|.bbappend|) files"
> 
> How do you feel about this? I'm especially interested in the feedback
> from native English speakers, which I'm not.

Personally, I'd read both of those sentences above as being correct and
they sound fine to me as a native speaker. There are other things in the
manual that probably grate on me a bit but not that!

Cheers,

Richard


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: [docs] "metadata": plural or singular or both?
  2021-07-21 16:20 ` [docs] " Richard Purdie
@ 2021-07-21 17:04   ` Michael Opdenacker
  2021-07-22  6:40     ` Richard Purdie
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Opdenacker @ 2021-07-21 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Purdie, YP docs mailing list

Hi,

On 7/21/21 6:20 PM, Richard Purdie wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> On Wed, 2021-07-21 at 18:11 +0200, Michael Opdenacker wrote:
>> I'm currently reading BitBake's documentation, and I'm always
>> uncomfortable when I read "Metadata is", while I know that in English
>> and in Latin, "data" is the plural of "datum". However, many people seem
>> to use "data" as singular.
>>
>> I also find confusing that actually "metadata" is both used:
>>
>>   * in plural form as in: "Split metadata into layers and allow layers
>>     to enhance or override other layers."
>>   * in singular form as in: "Metadata is stored in recipe (|.bb|) and
>>     related recipe “append” (|.bbappend|) files"
>>
>> How do you feel about this? I'm especially interested in the feedback
>> from native English speakers, which I'm not.
> Personally, I'd read both of those sentences above as being correct and
> they sound fine to me as a native speaker. There are other things in the
> manual that probably grate on me a bit but not that!

Thank you for your feedback.

Here's a more troubling sentence:
"BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that builds up
the tasks"

Here, "metadata" is obviously plural because otherwise you would say "a
provided metadata", but it still conjugated as if it was singular.
Doesn't this sentence grate a bit?

Cheers,

Michael.

-- 
Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: [docs] "metadata": plural or singular or both?
  2021-07-21 17:04   ` Michael Opdenacker
@ 2021-07-22  6:40     ` Richard Purdie
  2021-07-29 13:01       ` [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata" Michael Opdenacker
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Richard Purdie @ 2021-07-22  6:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Opdenacker, YP docs mailing list

On Wed, 2021-07-21 at 19:04 +0200, Michael Opdenacker wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 7/21/21 6:20 PM, Richard Purdie wrote:
> > Hi Michael,
> > 
> > On Wed, 2021-07-21 at 18:11 +0200, Michael Opdenacker wrote:
> > > I'm currently reading BitBake's documentation, and I'm always
> > > uncomfortable when I read "Metadata is", while I know that in English
> > > and in Latin, "data" is the plural of "datum". However, many people seem
> > > to use "data" as singular.
> > > 
> > > I also find confusing that actually "metadata" is both used:
> > > 
> > >   * in plural form as in: "Split metadata into layers and allow layers
> > >     to enhance or override other layers."
> > >   * in singular form as in: "Metadata is stored in recipe (|.bb|) and
> > >     related recipe “append” (|.bbappend|) files"
> > > 
> > > How do you feel about this? I'm especially interested in the feedback
> > > from native English speakers, which I'm not.
> > Personally, I'd read both of those sentences above as being correct and
> > they sound fine to me as a native speaker. There are other things in the
> > manual that probably grate on me a bit but not that!
> 
> Thank you for your feedback.
> 
> Here's a more troubling sentence:
> "BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that builds up
> the tasks"
> 
> Here, "metadata" is obviously plural because otherwise you would say "a
> provided metadata", but it still conjugated as if it was singular.
> Doesn't this sentence grate a bit?

That one doesn't sound right. You could say it is missing a "the", as in
"according to the provided metadata that builds up" but I don't really like
the phrasing there even with that fix, the "that" sounds wrong.

Cheers,

Richard




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata"
  2021-07-22  6:40     ` Richard Purdie
@ 2021-07-29 13:01       ` Michael Opdenacker
  2021-07-29 13:05         ` [bitbake-devel] " Quentin Schulz
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Opdenacker @ 2021-07-29 13:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitbake-devel; +Cc: docs, Michael Opdenacker

"metadata" is used both as singular and as plural.
The first change fixes a case in which the verbs have a singular conjugation
but articles that indicate a plural case.

The second change is for consistency with the first one inside
the same paragraph.

Signed-off-by: Michael Opdenacker <michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com>
---
 doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst | 4 ++--
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
index eb140665..64e7305d 100644
--- a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
+++ b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
@@ -27,11 +27,11 @@ Linux software stacks using a task-oriented approach.
 Conceptually, BitBake is similar to GNU Make in some regards but has
 significant differences:
 
--  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that builds up
+-  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that build up
    the tasks. Metadata is stored in recipe (``.bb``) and related recipe
    "append" (``.bbappend``) files, configuration (``.conf``) and
    underlying include (``.inc``) files, and in class (``.bbclass``)
-   files. The metadata provides BitBake with instructions on what tasks
+   files. The metadata provide BitBake with instructions on what tasks
    to run and the dependencies between those tasks.
 
 -  BitBake includes a fetcher library for obtaining source code from
-- 
2.25.1


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: [bitbake-devel] [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata"
  2021-07-29 13:01       ` [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata" Michael Opdenacker
@ 2021-07-29 13:05         ` Quentin Schulz
  2021-07-29 13:09           ` [docs] " Michael Opdenacker
  2021-07-29 21:31           ` Richard Purdie
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Quentin Schulz @ 2021-07-29 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Opdenacker; +Cc: bitbake-devel, docs

Hi Michael,

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 03:01:33PM +0200, Michael Opdenacker wrote:
> "metadata" is used both as singular and as plural.
> The first change fixes a case in which the verbs have a singular conjugation
> but articles that indicate a plural case.
> 
> The second change is for consistency with the first one inside
> the same paragraph.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Michael Opdenacker <michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com>
> ---
>  doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst | 4 ++--
>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
> 
> diff --git a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
> index eb140665..64e7305d 100644
> --- a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
> +++ b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
> @@ -27,11 +27,11 @@ Linux software stacks using a task-oriented approach.
>  Conceptually, BitBake is similar to GNU Make in some regards but has
>  significant differences:
>  
> --  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that builds up
> +-  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that build up
>     the tasks. Metadata is stored in recipe (``.bb``) and related recipe

Then "Metadata are" here seems appropriate to me. What do you think?

Cheers,
Quentin

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: [docs] [bitbake-devel] [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata"
  2021-07-29 13:05         ` [bitbake-devel] " Quentin Schulz
@ 2021-07-29 13:09           ` Michael Opdenacker
  2021-07-29 21:31           ` Richard Purdie
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Opdenacker @ 2021-07-29 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Quentin Schulz; +Cc: bitbake-devel, docs

Hi Quentin,

On 7/29/21 3:05 PM, Quentin Schulz wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 03:01:33PM +0200, Michael Opdenacker wrote:
>> "metadata" is used both as singular and as plural.
>> The first change fixes a case in which the verbs have a singular conjugation
>> but articles that indicate a plural case.
>>
>> The second change is for consistency with the first one inside
>> the same paragraph.
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Michael Opdenacker <michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com>
>> ---
>>  doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst | 4 ++--
>>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
>>
>> diff --git a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
>> index eb140665..64e7305d 100644
>> --- a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
>> +++ b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
>> @@ -27,11 +27,11 @@ Linux software stacks using a task-oriented approach.
>>  Conceptually, BitBake is similar to GNU Make in some regards but has
>>  significant differences:
>>  
>> --  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that builds up
>> +-  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that build up
>>     the tasks. Metadata is stored in recipe (``.bb``) and related recipe
> Then "Metadata are" here seems appropriate to me. What do you think?

Good catch, many thanks! I paid attention to the following case, but
missed that one.
Cheers,
Michael.
-- 

Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: [bitbake-devel] [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata"
  2021-07-29 13:05         ` [bitbake-devel] " Quentin Schulz
  2021-07-29 13:09           ` [docs] " Michael Opdenacker
@ 2021-07-29 21:31           ` Richard Purdie
  2021-07-30 10:29             ` [PATCH v4] " Michael Opdenacker
  2021-07-30 10:33             ` [docs] [bitbake-devel] [PATCH] " Michael Opdenacker
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Richard Purdie @ 2021-07-29 21:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Quentin Schulz, Michael Opdenacker; +Cc: bitbake-devel, docs

On Thu, 2021-07-29 at 15:05 +0200, Quentin Schulz wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 03:01:33PM +0200, Michael Opdenacker wrote:
> > "metadata" is used both as singular and as plural.
> > The first change fixes a case in which the verbs have a singular conjugation
> > but articles that indicate a plural case.
> > 
> > The second change is for consistency with the first one inside
> > the same paragraph.
> > 
> > Signed-off-by: Michael Opdenacker <michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com>
> > ---
> >  doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst | 4 ++--
> >  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
> > 
> > diff --git a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
> > index eb140665..64e7305d 100644
> > --- a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
> > +++ b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
> > @@ -27,11 +27,11 @@ Linux software stacks using a task-oriented approach.
> >  Conceptually, BitBake is similar to GNU Make in some regards but has
> >  significant differences:
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that builds up
> > +-  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that build up
> >     the tasks. Metadata is stored in recipe (``.bb``) and related recipe
> 
> Then "Metadata are" here seems appropriate to me. What do you think?

I'd have said "Metadata is stored in recipes"...

Cheers,

Richard 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [PATCH v4] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata"
  2021-07-29 21:31           ` Richard Purdie
@ 2021-07-30 10:29             ` Michael Opdenacker
  2021-07-30 10:33             ` [docs] [bitbake-devel] [PATCH] " Michael Opdenacker
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Opdenacker @ 2021-07-30 10:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: docs; +Cc: Michael Opdenacker, Quentin Schulz, Richard Purdie

"metadata" is used both as singular and as plural.
This fixes a case in which the verb has a singular conjugation,
which conflicts with the absence of article indicating a plural case.

Signed-off-by: Michael Opdenacker <michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com>
Reviewed-by: Quentin Schulz <foss@0leil.net>
Reviewed-by: Richard Purdie <richard.purdie@linuxfoundation.org>
---
 doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
index eb140665..ec66d8c2 100644
--- a/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
+++ b/doc/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual-intro.rst
@@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ Linux software stacks using a task-oriented approach.
 Conceptually, BitBake is similar to GNU Make in some regards but has
 significant differences:
 
--  BitBake executes tasks according to provided metadata that builds up
+-  BitBake executes tasks according to the provided metadata that builds up
    the tasks. Metadata is stored in recipe (``.bb``) and related recipe
    "append" (``.bbappend``) files, configuration (``.conf``) and
    underlying include (``.inc``) files, and in class (``.bbclass``)
-- 
2.25.1


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: [docs] [bitbake-devel] [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata"
  2021-07-29 21:31           ` Richard Purdie
  2021-07-30 10:29             ` [PATCH v4] " Michael Opdenacker
@ 2021-07-30 10:33             ` Michael Opdenacker
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Michael Opdenacker @ 2021-07-30 10:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Purdie, Quentin Schulz; +Cc: bitbake-devel, docs


On 7/29/21 11:31 PM, Richard Purdie wrote:
> I'd have said "Metadata is stored in recipes"...

Let's trust you on this, Richard.
All this back and forth just for eventually adding a single "the"!

At least, I'm starting to understand the usage of "metadata" and "data"
in today's English.
Thanks for your time and patience!
Michael.

-- 
Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-07-30 10:33 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-07-21 16:11 "metadata": plural or singular or both? Michael Opdenacker
2021-07-21 16:20 ` [docs] " Richard Purdie
2021-07-21 17:04   ` Michael Opdenacker
2021-07-22  6:40     ` Richard Purdie
2021-07-29 13:01       ` [PATCH] doc: bitbake-user-manual: grammar fix for the number of "metadata" Michael Opdenacker
2021-07-29 13:05         ` [bitbake-devel] " Quentin Schulz
2021-07-29 13:09           ` [docs] " Michael Opdenacker
2021-07-29 21:31           ` Richard Purdie
2021-07-30 10:29             ` [PATCH v4] " Michael Opdenacker
2021-07-30 10:33             ` [docs] [bitbake-devel] [PATCH] " Michael Opdenacker

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