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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Paul McKenney <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Cc: Ben Maurer <bmaurer@fb.com>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
	David Goldblatt <davidgoldblatt@fb.com>, Qi Wang <qiwang@fb.com>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>, Andrew Hunter <ahh@google.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Dave Watson <davejwatson@fb.com>,
	Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>, Chris Lameter <cl@linux.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v9 for 4.15 01/14] Restartable sequences system call
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:05:50 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFwvNS95ByZJTh1yG25QfaD0K0ZByK3iXeeRU8LafFiGFQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171013205418.GM3521@linux.vnet.ibm.com>

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Paul E. McKenney
<paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>> And if nobody can be bothered to write the user-level code and test
>> this patch-series, then obviously it's not important enough for the
>> kernel to merge it.
>
> My guess is that it will take some time, probably measured in months,
> to carry out this level of integration and testing to.

That would be an argument if this was a new patch series. "Wait a few months".

But that just isn't the case here.

The fact is, these patches have been floating around in one form or
another not for a couple of months, but for years. There's a LWN
article about it from 2015, and it wasn't new back then either (slides
from 2013).

I wouldn't be surprised if there had been academic _papers_ written
about the notion.

So if there  *still* is no actual real code around this, then that
just strengthens my point - no way should we merge something where
people haven't actually bothered to write the user-mode component for
years and years.

It really boils down to: "if nobody can be bothered to write the user
mode parts after several years, why should it be merged into the
kernel"?

I don't think that's too much to ask for.

                Linus

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
To: Paul McKenney
	<paulmck-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Ben Maurer <bmaurer-b10kYP2dOMg@public.gmane.org>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers
	<mathieu.desnoyers-vg+e7yoeK/dWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>,
	David Goldblatt <davidgoldblatt-b10kYP2dOMg@public.gmane.org>,
	Qi Wang <qiwang-b10kYP2dOMg@public.gmane.org>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Paul Turner <pjt-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Andrew Hunter <ahh-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto-kltTT9wpgjJwATOyAt5JVQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Dave Watson <davejwatson-b10kYP2dOMg@public.gmane.org>,
	Josh Triplett <josh-iaAMLnmF4UmaiuxdJuQwMA@public.gmane.org>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon-5wv7dgnIgG8@public.gmane.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List
	<linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx-hfZtesqFncYOwBW4kG4KsQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Andi Kleen <andi-Vw/NltI1exuRpAAqCnN02g@public.gmane.org>,
	Chris Lameter <cl-vYTEC60ixJUAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt-nx8X9YLhiw1AfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>,
	Andrew Morton
	<akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>,
	Russell King <linux@arm>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v9 for 4.15 01/14] Restartable sequences system call
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:05:50 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFwvNS95ByZJTh1yG25QfaD0K0ZByK3iXeeRU8LafFiGFQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171013205418.GM3521-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Paul E. McKenney
<paulmck-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> And if nobody can be bothered to write the user-level code and test
>> this patch-series, then obviously it's not important enough for the
>> kernel to merge it.
>
> My guess is that it will take some time, probably measured in months,
> to carry out this level of integration and testing to.

That would be an argument if this was a new patch series. "Wait a few months".

But that just isn't the case here.

The fact is, these patches have been floating around in one form or
another not for a couple of months, but for years. There's a LWN
article about it from 2015, and it wasn't new back then either (slides
from 2013).

I wouldn't be surprised if there had been academic _papers_ written
about the notion.

So if there  *still* is no actual real code around this, then that
just strengthens my point - no way should we merge something where
people haven't actually bothered to write the user-mode component for
years and years.

It really boils down to: "if nobody can be bothered to write the user
mode parts after several years, why should it be merged into the
kernel"?

I don't think that's too much to ask for.

                Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2017-10-13 21:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 113+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-10-12 23:03 [RFC PATCH v9 for 4.15 00/14] Restartable sequences and CPU op vector system calls Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH v9 for 4.15 01/14] Restartable sequences system call Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13  0:36   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-10-13  0:36     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-10-13  9:35     ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-13  9:35       ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-13 18:30       ` Linus Torvalds
2017-10-13 18:30         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-10-13 20:54         ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-13 20:54           ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-13 21:05           ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2017-10-13 21:05             ` Linus Torvalds
2017-10-13 21:21             ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-13 21:21               ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-13 21:36             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 21:36               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-16 16:04               ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-10-16 16:04                 ` Carlos O'Donell
2017-10-16 16:46                 ` Andi Kleen
2017-10-16 16:46                   ` Andi Kleen
2017-10-16 22:17                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-16 22:17                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 16:19                     ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-17 16:19                       ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-17 16:33                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 16:33                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 16:41                         ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-17 16:41                           ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-17 17:48                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 17:48                             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-18  6:22                       ` Greg KH
2017-10-18  6:22                         ` Greg KH
2017-10-18 16:28                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-18 16:28                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-14  3:01         ` Andi Kleen
2017-10-14  3:01           ` Andi Kleen
2017-10-14  4:05           ` Linus Torvalds
2017-10-14  4:05             ` Linus Torvalds
2017-10-14 11:37             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-14 11:37               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 12:50   ` Florian Weimer
2017-10-13 13:40     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 13:40       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 13:56       ` Florian Weimer
2017-10-13 13:56         ` Florian Weimer
2017-10-13 14:27         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 14:27           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 17:24           ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-10-13 17:24             ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-10-13 17:53             ` Florian Weimer
2017-10-13 17:53               ` Florian Weimer
2017-10-13 18:17               ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-10-13 18:17                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-10-14 11:53                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-14 11:53                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-18 16:41   ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-18 18:11     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-18 18:11       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-19 11:35       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-19 11:35         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-19 17:01         ` Florian Weimer
2017-10-19 17:01           ` Florian Weimer
2017-10-23 17:30       ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-23 17:30         ` Ben Maurer
2017-10-23 20:44         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-23 20:44           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 02/14] tracing: instrument restartable sequences Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 03/14] Restartable sequences: ARM 32 architecture support Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 04/14] Restartable sequences: wire up ARM 32 system call Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 05/14] Restartable sequences: x86 32/64 architecture support Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 06/14] Restartable sequences: wire up x86 32/64 system call Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 07/14] Restartable sequences: powerpc architecture support Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 08/14] Restartable sequences: Wire up powerpc system call Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 09/14] Provide cpu_opv " Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 13:57   ` Alan Cox
2017-10-13 13:57     ` Alan Cox
2017-10-13 14:50     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 14:50       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-14 14:22       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-14 14:22         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-13 17:20   ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-10-13 17:20     ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-10-14  2:50   ` Andi Kleen
2017-10-14  2:50     ` Andi Kleen
2017-10-14 13:35     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-14 13:35       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 10/14] cpu_opv: Wire up x86 32/64 " Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 11/14] cpu_opv: Wire up powerpc " Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 12/14] cpu_opv: Wire up ARM32 " Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 13/14] cpu_opv: Implement selftests Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-12 23:03 ` [RFC PATCH for 4.15 14/14] Restartable sequences: Provide self-tests Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-16  2:51   ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-16  2:51     ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-16 14:23     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-16 14:23       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 10:38       ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-17 10:38         ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-17 13:50         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 13:50           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-16 18:50     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-16 18:50       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 10:36       ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-17 10:36         ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-17 13:50         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-17 13:50           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2017-10-18  5:45           ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-18  5:45             ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-16  3:00   ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-16  3:00     ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-16  3:48     ` Boqun Feng
2017-10-16  3:48       ` Boqun Feng
2017-10-16 11:48       ` Michael Ellerman
2017-10-16 11:48         ` Michael Ellerman

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