From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>
Cc: Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
Lennart Poettering <mzxreary@0pointer.de>,
akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-man@vger.kernel.org, roland@hack.frob.com
Subject: Re: + prctl-add-pr_setget_child_reaper-to-allow-simple-process-supervision .patch added to -mm tree
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:22:06 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFyFnMRMuWSSpytwvpk9u5YysMRfTRELyhGX9grWbGyi6Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1313704516.15082.5.camel@mop>
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org> wrote:
>
>> So NAK. We're not slowing down normal code for some new feature that
>> realistically will never be used by any normal applications.
>
> It will be used for all new service managers. UNIX is a pain if you want
> to watch your children regarding double-forking, if you are not init.
I'll believe that "all new service managers" when I see it. Until
then, a new feature is just that - a new feature. Which nobody uses.
> And it will clean up the mess the desktop stuff is putting in 'ps afx'.
> Here is the before/after output:
>
> 253 ? Ss 0:00 /bin/dbus-daemon --system --address=systemd: --nofork --systemd-activation
> 294 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/polkit-1/polkitd
> 328 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/modem-manager
> 608 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/colord
> 658 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/upowerd
> 819 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/imsettings-daemon
> 916 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/udisks-daemon
> 917 ? S 0:00 \_ udisks-daemon: not polling any devices
>
>
> 294 ? Ss 0:00 /bin/dbus-daemon --system --address=systemd: --nofork --systemd-activation
> 426 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/polkit-1/polkitd
> 449 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/modem-manager
> 635 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/colord
> 705 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/upowerd
> 959 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/udisks-daemon
> 960 ? S 0:00 | \_ udisks-daemon: not polling any devices
> 977 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/packagekitd
Yeah, that looks like a nice feature.
> If you want, we can make the forked processes inherit a flag if the
> 'subreaper' should be looked up at all. Then we have almost zero
> overhead if the feature isn't used. You think that's needed?
Yes, I do. Because with any current system, that "almost zero
overhead" is just totally wasted effort entirely for zero gain. Which
just makes me go "Eww".
Linus
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
To: Kay Sievers <kay.sievers-tD+1rO4QERM@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Oleg Nesterov <oleg-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
Lennart Poettering
<mzxreary-uLTowLwuiw4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org>,
akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org,
linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
roland-/Z5OmTQCD9xF6kxbq+BtvQ@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: + prctl-add-pr_setget_child_reaper-to-allow-simple-process-supervision .patch added to -mm tree
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:22:06 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFyFnMRMuWSSpytwvpk9u5YysMRfTRELyhGX9grWbGyi6Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1313704516.15082.5.camel@mop>
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers-tD+1rO4QERM@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> So NAK. We're not slowing down normal code for some new feature that
>> realistically will never be used by any normal applications.
>
> It will be used for all new service managers. UNIX is a pain if you want
> to watch your children regarding double-forking, if you are not init.
I'll believe that "all new service managers" when I see it. Until
then, a new feature is just that - a new feature. Which nobody uses.
> And it will clean up the mess the desktop stuff is putting in 'ps afx'.
> Here is the before/after output:
>
> 253 ? Ss 0:00 /bin/dbus-daemon --system --address=systemd: --nofork --systemd-activation
> 294 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/polkit-1/polkitd
> 328 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/modem-manager
> 608 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/colord
> 658 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/upowerd
> 819 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/imsettings-daemon
> 916 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/libexec/udisks-daemon
> 917 ? S 0:00 \_ udisks-daemon: not polling any devices
>
>
> 294 ? Ss 0:00 /bin/dbus-daemon --system --address=systemd: --nofork --systemd-activation
> 426 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/polkit-1/polkitd
> 449 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/modem-manager
> 635 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/colord
> 705 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/upowerd
> 959 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/udisks-daemon
> 960 ? S 0:00 | \_ udisks-daemon: not polling any devices
> 977 ? Sl 0:00 \_ /usr/libexec/packagekitd
Yeah, that looks like a nice feature.
> If you want, we can make the forked processes inherit a flag if the
> 'subreaper' should be looked up at all. Then we have almost zero
> overhead if the feature isn't used. You think that's needed?
Yes, I do. Because with any current system, that "almost zero
overhead" is just totally wasted effort entirely for zero gain. Which
just makes me go "Eww".
Linus
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-08-18 22:23 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-08-16 20:11 + prctl-add-pr_setget_child_reaper-to-allow-simple-process-supervision.patch added to -mm tree akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b
2011-08-17 11:55 ` + prctl-add-pr_setget_child_reaper-to-allow-simple-process-supervision .patch " Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 11:55 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 13:05 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 13:05 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 13:21 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 13:21 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 13:37 ` Alan Cox
2011-08-17 13:37 ` Alan Cox
2011-08-23 0:30 ` Colin Walters
2011-08-23 0:30 ` Colin Walters
2011-08-17 14:16 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 14:16 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 16:03 ` Denys Vlasenko
2011-08-17 16:03 ` Denys Vlasenko
2011-08-17 13:13 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 13:45 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 13:45 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 15:45 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 15:45 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 15:53 ` Alan Cox
2011-08-17 15:53 ` Alan Cox
2011-08-17 16:20 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 16:20 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 16:47 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 16:47 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 18:57 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 18:57 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-17 20:56 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-17 20:56 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-18 12:43 ` Lennart Poettering
2011-08-18 12:43 ` Lennart Poettering
2011-08-18 14:25 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-18 14:25 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-18 18:11 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-18 18:48 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-18 18:48 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-19 1:31 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-19 1:31 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-19 12:25 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-19 12:25 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-19 12:44 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-19 12:44 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-19 13:13 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-19 13:13 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-19 14:20 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-19 14:58 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-19 14:58 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-20 15:33 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-20 15:33 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-21 18:33 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-22 11:14 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-22 11:14 ` Oleg Nesterov
2011-08-22 23:48 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-22 23:48 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-18 21:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-18 21:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-18 21:55 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-18 21:55 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-18 22:22 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2011-08-18 22:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-19 0:48 ` Kay Sievers
2011-08-19 0:48 ` Kay Sievers
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