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From: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
To: James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>
Cc: John Johansen <john.johansen@canonical.com>,
	Jordan Glover <Golden_Miller83@protonmail.ch>,
	Stephen Smalley <sds@tycho.nsa.gov>,
	Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>,
	Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>,
	Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>,
	"Schaufler, Casey" <casey.schaufler@intel.com>,
	linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH security-next v4 23/32] selinux: Remove boot parameter
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 16:06:25 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAGXu5jLKgrdhah-5TtAXDL-odbLGeyAUH2=PkAU769AkEnZFfQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.21.1810030758460.23596@namei.org>

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 3:06 PM, James Morris <jmorris@namei.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 11:57 AM, John Johansen
>> <john.johansen@canonical.com> wrote:
>> > Under the current scheme
>> >
>> > lsm.enabled=selinux
>> >
>> > could actually mean selinux,yama,loadpin,something_else are
>> > enabled. If we extend this behavior to when full stacking lands
>> >
>> > lsm.enabled=selinux,yama
>> >
>> > might mean selinux,yama,apparmor,loadpin,something_else
>> >
>> > and what that list is will vary from kernel to kernel, which I think
>> > is harder for the user than the lsm.enabled list being what is
>> > actually enabled at boot
>>
>> Ah, I think I missed this in your earlier emails. What you don't like
>> here is that "lsm.enable=" is additive. You want it to be explicit.
>>
>
> This is a path to madness.
>
> How about enable flags set ONLY per LSM:
>
> lsm.selinux.enable=x
> lsm.apparmor.enable=x
>
> With no lsm.enable, and removing selinux=x and apparmor=x.
>
> Yes this will break existing docs, but they can be updated for newer
> kernel versions to say "replace selinux=0 with lsm.selinux.enable=0" from
> kernel X onwards.
>
> Surely distro packages and bootloaders are able to cope with changes to
> kernel parameters?
>
> We can either take a one-time hit now, or build new usability debt, which
> will confuse people forever.

I'd like to avoid this for a few reasons:

- this requires per-LSM plumbing instead of centralized plumbing
  - each LSM needs to have its own CONFIG flag
  - each LSM needs to have its own bootparam flag
- SELinux has explicited stated they do not want to lose selinux=
- this doesn't meet John's goal of having a "single explicit enable list"

I think the current proposal (in the other thread) is likely the
sanest approach:

- Drop CONFIG_SECURITY_SELINUX_BOOTPARAM_VALUE
- Drop CONFIG_SECURITY_APPARMOR_BOOTPARAM_VALUE
- All enabled LSMs are listed at build-time in CONFIG_LSM_ENABLE
- Boot time enabling for selinux= and apparmor= remain
- lsm.enable= is explicit: overrides above and omissions are disabled
- maybe include lsm.disable= to disable anything

-Kees

-- 
Kees Cook
Pixel Security

  reply	other threads:[~2018-10-02 23:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-02  0:54 [PATCH security-next v4 00/32] LSM: Explict LSM ordering Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 01/32] LSM: Correctly announce start of LSM initialization Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 02/32] vmlinux.lds.h: Avoid copy/paste of security_init section Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 03/32] LSM: Rename .security_initcall section to .lsm_info Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 04/32] LSM: Remove initcall tracing Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:14   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 05/32] LSM: Convert from initcall to struct lsm_info Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 06/32] vmlinux.lds.h: Move LSM_TABLE into INIT_DATA Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:15   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 07/32] LSM: Convert security_initcall() into DEFINE_LSM() Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:16   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 08/32] LSM: Record LSM name in struct lsm_info Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 09/32] LSM: Provide init debugging infrastructure Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:17   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 10/32] LSM: Don't ignore initialization failures Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:20   ` James Morris
2018-10-02 21:38     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 11/32] LSM: Introduce LSM_FLAG_LEGACY_MAJOR Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 12/32] LSM: Provide separate ordered initialization Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 13/32] LoadPin: Rename "enable" to "enforce" Kees Cook
2018-10-02  1:06   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-02  4:47     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 14/32] LSM: Plumb visibility into optional "enabled" state Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 15/32] LSM: Lift LSM selection out of individual LSMs Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 16/32] LSM: Prepare for arbitrary LSM enabling Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 17/32] LSM: Introduce CONFIG_LSM_ENABLE Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 18/32] LSM: Introduce lsm.enable= and lsm.disable= Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 19/32] LSM: Prepare for reorganizing "security=" logic Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 20/32] LSM: Refactor "security=" in terms of enable/disable Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 21/32] LSM: Finalize centralized LSM enabling logic Kees Cook
2018-10-02  1:18   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-02  4:49     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 22/32] apparmor: Remove boot parameter Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 23/32] selinux: " Kees Cook
2018-10-02 12:12   ` Paul Moore
2018-10-02 13:42     ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-02 14:44       ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 14:58         ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-02 16:33           ` Jordan Glover
2018-10-02 16:54             ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 18:33               ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-02 19:02                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 18:57               ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 19:17                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 19:47                   ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 20:29                     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:11                       ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 22:06                   ` James Morris
2018-10-02 23:06                     ` Kees Cook [this message]
2018-10-02 23:46                       ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 23:54                         ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03  0:05                           ` John Johansen
2018-10-03  0:12                             ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 13:15                               ` John Johansen
2018-10-03 13:39                           ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-03 17:26                             ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 19:43                               ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-04  5:38                               ` John Johansen
2018-10-04 16:02                                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-08 14:25                                 ` Paul Moore
2018-10-03 18:17                         ` James Morris
2018-10-03 18:20                           ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 18:28                             ` James Morris
2018-10-03 20:10                               ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 20:36                                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 21:19                                   ` James Morris
2018-10-04  5:56                                   ` John Johansen
2018-10-04 16:18                                     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-04 17:40                                       ` Jordan Glover
2018-10-04 17:42                                         ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 21:34                                 ` James Morris
2018-10-03 23:55                                   ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 23:59                                     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-04  0:03                                       ` Kees Cook
2018-10-04  6:22                                       ` John Johansen
2018-10-04  6:18                                     ` John Johansen
2018-10-04 17:49                                     ` James Morris
2018-10-05  0:05                                       ` Kees Cook
2018-10-05  4:58                                         ` James Morris
2018-10-05 16:29                                           ` James Morris
2018-10-05 16:35                                           ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 23:28                     ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 16:34           ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 24/32] LSM: Build ordered list of ordered LSMs for init Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 25/32] LSM: Introduce CONFIG_LSM_ORDER Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 26/32] LSM: Introduce "lsm.order=" for boottime ordering Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 27/32] LoadPin: Initialize as ordered LSM Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 28/32] Yama: " Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 29/32] LSM: Introduce enum lsm_order Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 30/32] capability: Initialize as LSM_ORDER_FIRST Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 31/32] LSM: Separate idea of "major" LSM from "exclusive" LSM Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 32/32] LSM: Add all exclusive LSMs to ordered initialization Kees Cook

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