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From: James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>
To: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Cc: John Johansen <john.johansen@canonical.com>,
	Jordan Glover <Golden_Miller83@protonmail.ch>,
	Stephen Smalley <sds@tycho.nsa.gov>,
	Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>,
	Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>,
	Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>,
	"Schaufler, Casey" <casey.schaufler@intel.com>,
	linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH security-next v4 23/32] selinux: Remove boot parameter
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 14:58:13 +1000 (AEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.21.1810051449110.2590@namei.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGXu5j+3HqqBa_ogQqGJYubeZr9uCrbKzEoKO3Or=71e4c_=Gw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018, Kees Cook wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:49 AM, James Morris <jmorris@namei.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, 3 Oct 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> >> Then someone boots the system with:
> >>
> >> selinux=1 security=selinux
> >>
> >> In what order does selinux get initialized relative to yama?
> >> (apparmor, flagged as a "legacy major", would have been disabled by
> >> the "security=" not matching it.)
> >
> > It doesn't, it needs to be specified in one place.
> >
> > Distros will need to update boot parameter handling for this kernel
> > onwards.  Otherwise, we will need to carry this confusing mess forward
> > forever.
> 
> Are you saying that you want to overrule Paul and Stephen about
> keeping "selinux=1 secuiryt=selinux" working?

Not overrule, but convince.

At least, deprecate selinux=1 and security=X, but not extend it any 
further.

> > In my most recent suggestion, there is no '!' disablement, just
> > enablement.  If an LSM is not listed in CONFIG_LSM="", it's not enabled.
> 
> And a user would need to specify ALL lsms on the "lsm=" line?
> 

Yes, the ones they want enabled.

> What do you think of my latest proposal? It could happily work all
> three ways: old boot params and security= work ("selinux=1
> security=selinux" keeps working), individual LSM enable/disable works
> ("lsm=+loadpin"), and full LSM ordering works
> ("lsm=each,lsm,in,order,here"):
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAGXu5jJJit8bDNvgXaFkuvFPy7NWtJW2oRWFbG-6iWk0+A1qng@mail.gmail.com/
> 

I think having something like +yama will still lead to confusion.
Explicitly stating each enabled LSM in order is totally unambiguous.

If people are moving away from the distro defaults, and there is no 
high-level interface to manage this, it seems to me there's a deeper 
issue with the distro.


-- 
James Morris
<jmorris@namei.org>


  reply	other threads:[~2018-10-05  4:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-02  0:54 [PATCH security-next v4 00/32] LSM: Explict LSM ordering Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 01/32] LSM: Correctly announce start of LSM initialization Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 02/32] vmlinux.lds.h: Avoid copy/paste of security_init section Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 03/32] LSM: Rename .security_initcall section to .lsm_info Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 04/32] LSM: Remove initcall tracing Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:14   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 05/32] LSM: Convert from initcall to struct lsm_info Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 06/32] vmlinux.lds.h: Move LSM_TABLE into INIT_DATA Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:15   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 07/32] LSM: Convert security_initcall() into DEFINE_LSM() Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:16   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 08/32] LSM: Record LSM name in struct lsm_info Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 09/32] LSM: Provide init debugging infrastructure Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:17   ` James Morris
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 10/32] LSM: Don't ignore initialization failures Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:20   ` James Morris
2018-10-02 21:38     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 11/32] LSM: Introduce LSM_FLAG_LEGACY_MAJOR Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 12/32] LSM: Provide separate ordered initialization Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 13/32] LoadPin: Rename "enable" to "enforce" Kees Cook
2018-10-02  1:06   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-02  4:47     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 14/32] LSM: Plumb visibility into optional "enabled" state Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 15/32] LSM: Lift LSM selection out of individual LSMs Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 16/32] LSM: Prepare for arbitrary LSM enabling Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 17/32] LSM: Introduce CONFIG_LSM_ENABLE Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 18/32] LSM: Introduce lsm.enable= and lsm.disable= Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 19/32] LSM: Prepare for reorganizing "security=" logic Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 20/32] LSM: Refactor "security=" in terms of enable/disable Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 21/32] LSM: Finalize centralized LSM enabling logic Kees Cook
2018-10-02  1:18   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-02  4:49     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 22/32] apparmor: Remove boot parameter Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 23/32] selinux: " Kees Cook
2018-10-02 12:12   ` Paul Moore
2018-10-02 13:42     ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-02 14:44       ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 14:58         ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-02 16:33           ` Jordan Glover
2018-10-02 16:54             ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 18:33               ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-02 19:02                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 18:57               ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 19:17                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 19:47                   ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 20:29                     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 21:11                       ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 22:06                   ` James Morris
2018-10-02 23:06                     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 23:46                       ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 23:54                         ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03  0:05                           ` John Johansen
2018-10-03  0:12                             ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 13:15                               ` John Johansen
2018-10-03 13:39                           ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-03 17:26                             ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 19:43                               ` Stephen Smalley
2018-10-04  5:38                               ` John Johansen
2018-10-04 16:02                                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-08 14:25                                 ` Paul Moore
2018-10-03 18:17                         ` James Morris
2018-10-03 18:20                           ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 18:28                             ` James Morris
2018-10-03 20:10                               ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 20:36                                 ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 21:19                                   ` James Morris
2018-10-04  5:56                                   ` John Johansen
2018-10-04 16:18                                     ` Kees Cook
2018-10-04 17:40                                       ` Jordan Glover
2018-10-04 17:42                                         ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 21:34                                 ` James Morris
2018-10-03 23:55                                   ` Kees Cook
2018-10-03 23:59                                     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-04  0:03                                       ` Kees Cook
2018-10-04  6:22                                       ` John Johansen
2018-10-04  6:18                                     ` John Johansen
2018-10-04 17:49                                     ` James Morris
2018-10-05  0:05                                       ` Kees Cook
2018-10-05  4:58                                         ` James Morris [this message]
2018-10-05 16:29                                           ` James Morris
2018-10-05 16:35                                           ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02 23:28                     ` John Johansen
2018-10-02 16:34           ` Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 24/32] LSM: Build ordered list of ordered LSMs for init Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 25/32] LSM: Introduce CONFIG_LSM_ORDER Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:54 ` [PATCH security-next v4 26/32] LSM: Introduce "lsm.order=" for boottime ordering Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 27/32] LoadPin: Initialize as ordered LSM Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 28/32] Yama: " Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 29/32] LSM: Introduce enum lsm_order Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 30/32] capability: Initialize as LSM_ORDER_FIRST Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 31/32] LSM: Separate idea of "major" LSM from "exclusive" LSM Kees Cook
2018-10-02  0:55 ` [PATCH security-next v4 32/32] LSM: Add all exclusive LSMs to ordered initialization Kees Cook

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