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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andrew Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux List Kernel Mailing <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@yandex-team.ru>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Michael Kerrisk-manpages <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	Jonathan Kowalski <bl0pbl33p@gmail.com>,
	"Dmitry V. Levin" <ldv@altlinux.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
	Nagarathnam Muthusamy <nagarathnam.muthusamy@oracle.com>,
	Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@cyphar.com>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open()
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 16:40:15 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=whw1cnWPSWw1tHXT5xTMbnJFbCtx9_re6U1RZ_7LE9gXA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=wh0jgRkZiNdFD96Zpjx+_G+NVSHieAt+QgWCQBJ2A-5Aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 3:16 PM Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>
> I would actually suggest we just make the rules be that the
> pidfd_open() always return the internal /proc entry regardless of any
> mount-point (or any "hidepid")

The clever alternative, which might be the RightWay(tm) is to just
create a completely unattached dentry, and basically tie it into the
actual /proc filesystem hierarchy at lookup() time when somebody does
the openat() using it for the first time. You'd get a very simple
callback: since the dentry would be unattached, you'd be guaranteed to
get a "lookup()" from the VFS layer, and that lookup would then do the
"hook into the actual /proc filesystem".

We already kind of do things like that in the VFS layer when we have
unattached dentries (because of "look up by filehandle" etc). In many
ways the "pidfd_open()" really is exactly a "look up by file handle"
operation, it just so happens that the "file handle" is just the
pid/namespace combination.

And if the splice alias (which is what the VFS layer calls that "tie
aliased dentry to the parent" operation) fails, because the /proc
filesystem isn't mounted or whatever, then trying to look up names off
the thing will also fail.

It's a tiny bit too clever for my taste, and it's not *exactly* the
same thing as our normal inode alias handling, but it's pretty close
conceptually (and even practically).

So it would basically do something very similar to the ioctl, but it
would do it implicitly and automatically at that first lookup.

That would also mean that you'd not actually pay the cost of doing any
of this *unless* you also end up trying to open things in /proc using
that pidfd.

                    Linus

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andrew Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux List Kernel Mailing <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@yandex-team.ru>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Michael Kerrisk-manpages <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	Jonathan Kowalski <bl0pbl33p@gmail.com>,
	"Dmitry V. Levin" <ldv@altlinux.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@red>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open()
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 16:40:15 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=whw1cnWPSWw1tHXT5xTMbnJFbCtx9_re6U1RZ_7LE9gXA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=wh0jgRkZiNdFD96Zpjx+_G+NVSHieAt+QgWCQBJ2A-5Aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 3:16 PM Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>
> I would actually suggest we just make the rules be that the
> pidfd_open() always return the internal /proc entry regardless of any
> mount-point (or any "hidepid")

The clever alternative, which might be the RightWay(tm) is to just
create a completely unattached dentry, and basically tie it into the
actual /proc filesystem hierarchy at lookup() time when somebody does
the openat() using it for the first time. You'd get a very simple
callback: since the dentry would be unattached, you'd be guaranteed to
get a "lookup()" from the VFS layer, and that lookup would then do the
"hook into the actual /proc filesystem".

We already kind of do things like that in the VFS layer when we have
unattached dentries (because of "look up by filehandle" etc). In many
ways the "pidfd_open()" really is exactly a "look up by file handle"
operation, it just so happens that the "file handle" is just the
pid/namespace combination.

And if the splice alias (which is what the VFS layer calls that "tie
aliased dentry to the parent" operation) fails, because the /proc
filesystem isn't mounted or whatever, then trying to look up names off
the thing will also fail.

It's a tiny bit too clever for my taste, and it's not *exactly* the
same thing as our normal inode alias handling, but it's pretty close
conceptually (and even practically).

So it would basically do something very similar to the ioctl, but it
would do it implicitly and automatically at that first lookup.

That would also mean that you'd not actually pay the cost of doing any
of this *unless* you also end up trying to open things in /proc using
that pidfd.

                    Linus

  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-03-31 23:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 158+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-03-29 15:54 [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open() Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 1/5] Make anon_inodes unconditional Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 2/5] pid: add pidfd_open() Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 23:45   ` Jann Horn
2019-03-29 23:45     ` Jann Horn
2019-03-29 23:55     ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 23:55       ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 11:53   ` Jürg Billeter
2019-03-30 14:37     ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 14:51       ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 14:51         ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 3/5] signal: support pidfd_open() with pidfd_send_signal() Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 4/5] signal: PIDFD_SIGNAL_TID threads via pidfds Christian Brauner
2019-03-30  1:06   ` Jann Horn
2019-03-30  1:06     ` Jann Horn
2019-03-30  1:22     ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30  1:22       ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30  1:34       ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30  1:34         ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30  1:42         ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30  1:42           ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-29 15:54 ` [PATCH v2 5/5] tests: add pidfd_open() tests Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:09 ` [PATCH v2 0/5] pid: add pidfd_open() Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:09   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:11   ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:11     ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:16     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:16       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:18       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:18         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31  1:07         ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31  1:07           ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31  2:34           ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31  2:34             ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31  4:08             ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31  4:08               ` Joel Fernandes
2019-03-31  4:46               ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31  4:46                 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 14:52                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 14:52                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 15:05                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 15:05                     ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 15:21                     ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-31 15:21                       ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-31 15:33                   ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-31 15:33                     ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 16:19   ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:19     ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:24     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:24       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 16:34       ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:34         ` Daniel Colascione
2019-03-30 16:38         ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:38           ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:04         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:04           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:12           ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:12             ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:24             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:24               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-30 17:37               ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:37                 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:50               ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 17:50                 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 17:52                 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:52                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 17:59                   ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 17:59                     ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-30 18:02                     ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 18:02                       ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 18:00               ` Jann Horn
2019-03-30 18:00                 ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 20:09               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-31 20:09                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-03-31 21:03                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 21:03                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 21:10                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 21:10                     ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 21:17                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 21:17                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 22:03                       ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 22:03                         ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 22:16                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 22:16                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-31 22:33                           ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 22:33                             ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01  0:52                             ` Jann Horn
2019-04-01  0:52                               ` Jann Horn
2019-04-01  8:47                               ` Yann Droneaud
2019-04-01  8:47                                 ` Yann Droneaud
2019-04-01 10:03                               ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 10:03                                 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-31 23:40                           ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2019-03-31 23:40                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01  0:09                             ` Al Viro
2019-04-01  0:09                               ` Al Viro
2019-04-01  0:18                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01  0:18                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01  0:21                                 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01  0:21                                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01  6:37                                 ` Al Viro
2019-04-01  6:37                                   ` Al Viro
2019-04-01  6:41                                   ` Al Viro
2019-04-01  6:41                                     ` Al Viro
2019-03-31 22:03                       ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-03-31 22:03                         ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01  2:13                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01  2:13                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01 11:40                         ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-04-01 11:40                           ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-04-01 15:36                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 15:36                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 15:47                             ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 15:47                               ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 15:55                             ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 15:55                               ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:01                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:01                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:13                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:13                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 19:42                                 ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 19:42                                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 21:30                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 21:30                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 21:58                                     ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 21:58                                       ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 22:13                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 22:13                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 22:34                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 22:34                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:07                               ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:07                                 ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:15                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:15                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:27                                   ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:27                                     ` Jonathan Kowalski
2019-04-01 16:21                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:21                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:29                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:29                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 16:45                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 16:45                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2019-04-01 17:00                                       ` David Laight
2019-04-01 17:00                                         ` David Laight
2019-04-01 17:32                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-01 17:32                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-04-02 11:03                                       ` Florian Weimer
2019-04-02 11:03                                         ` Florian Weimer
2019-04-01 16:10                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01 16:10                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-04-01 12:04                         ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 12:04                           ` Christian Brauner
2019-04-01 13:43                           ` Jann Horn
2019-04-01 13:43                             ` Jann Horn
2019-03-31 21:19                 ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-31 21:19                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:37       ` Christian Brauner
2019-03-30 16:37         ` Christian Brauner

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