All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Heiner Litz <hlitz@ucsc.edu>
To: Keith Busch <kbusch@kernel.org>
Cc: "Damien Le Moal" <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>,
	"Javier González" <javier@javigon.com>,
	"Matias Bjørling" <mb@lightnvm.io>,
	"Matias Bjorling" <Matias.Bjorling@wdc.com>,
	"Christoph Hellwig" <hch@lst.de>,
	"Keith Busch" <Keith.Busch@wdc.com>,
	"linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org" <linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org>,
	"linux-block@vger.kernel.org" <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Sagi Grimberg" <sagi@grimberg.me>,
	"Jens Axboe" <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	"Hans Holmberg" <Hans.Holmberg@wdc.com>,
	"Dmitry Fomichev" <Dmitry.Fomichev@wdc.com>,
	"Ajay Joshi" <Ajay.Joshi@wdc.com>,
	"Aravind Ramesh" <Aravind.Ramesh@wdc.com>,
	"Niklas Cassel" <Niklas.Cassel@wdc.com>,
	"Judy Brock" <judy.brock@samsung.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 5/5] nvme: support for zoned namespaces
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 15:05:27 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJbgVnVxtfs3m6HKJOQw4E1sqTQBmtF_P-D4aAZ5zsz4rQUXNA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200618211945.GA2347@C02WT3WMHTD6>

Matias, Keith,
thanks, this all sounds good and it makes total sense to hide striping
from the user.

In the end, the real problem really seems to be that ZNS effectively
requires in-order IO delivery which the kernel cannot guarantee. I
think fixing this problem in the ZNS specification instead of in the
communication substrate (kernel) is problematic, especially as
out-of-order delivery absolutely has no benefit in the case of ZNS.
But I guess this has been discussed before..

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:19 PM Keith Busch <kbusch@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 01:47:20PM -0700, Heiner Litz wrote:
> > the striping explanation makes sense. In this case will rephase to: It
> > is sufficient to support large enough un-splittable writes to achieve
> > full per-zone bandwidth with a single writer/single QD.
>
> This is subject to the capabilities of the device and software's memory
> constraints. The maximum DMA size for a single request an nvme device can
> handle often range anywhere from 64k to 4MB. The pci nvme driver maxes out at
> 4MB anyway because that's the most we can guarantee forward progress right now,
> otherwise the scatter lists become to big to ensure we'll be able to allocate
> one to dispatch a write command.
>
> We do report the size and the alignment constraints so that it won't get split,
> but we still have to work with applications that don't abide by those
> constraints.
>
> > My main point is: There is no fundamental reason for splitting up
> > requests intermittently just to re-assemble them in the same form
> > later.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Heiner Litz <hlitz@ucsc.edu>
To: Keith Busch <kbusch@kernel.org>
Cc: "Jens Axboe" <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	"Niklas Cassel" <Niklas.Cassel@wdc.com>,
	"Damien Le Moal" <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>,
	"Ajay Joshi" <Ajay.Joshi@wdc.com>,
	"Sagi Grimberg" <sagi@grimberg.me>,
	"Keith Busch" <Keith.Busch@wdc.com>,
	"Dmitry Fomichev" <Dmitry.Fomichev@wdc.com>,
	"Aravind Ramesh" <Aravind.Ramesh@wdc.com>,
	"Javier González" <javier@javigon.com>,
	"linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org" <linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org>,
	"linux-block@vger.kernel.org" <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Hans Holmberg" <Hans.Holmberg@wdc.com>,
	"Matias Bjørling" <mb@lightnvm.io>,
	"Judy Brock" <judy.brock@samsung.com>,
	"Christoph Hellwig" <hch@lst.de>,
	"Matias Bjorling" <Matias.Bjorling@wdc.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 5/5] nvme: support for zoned namespaces
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 15:05:27 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJbgVnVxtfs3m6HKJOQw4E1sqTQBmtF_P-D4aAZ5zsz4rQUXNA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200618211945.GA2347@C02WT3WMHTD6>

Matias, Keith,
thanks, this all sounds good and it makes total sense to hide striping
from the user.

In the end, the real problem really seems to be that ZNS effectively
requires in-order IO delivery which the kernel cannot guarantee. I
think fixing this problem in the ZNS specification instead of in the
communication substrate (kernel) is problematic, especially as
out-of-order delivery absolutely has no benefit in the case of ZNS.
But I guess this has been discussed before..

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:19 PM Keith Busch <kbusch@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 01:47:20PM -0700, Heiner Litz wrote:
> > the striping explanation makes sense. In this case will rephase to: It
> > is sufficient to support large enough un-splittable writes to achieve
> > full per-zone bandwidth with a single writer/single QD.
>
> This is subject to the capabilities of the device and software's memory
> constraints. The maximum DMA size for a single request an nvme device can
> handle often range anywhere from 64k to 4MB. The pci nvme driver maxes out at
> 4MB anyway because that's the most we can guarantee forward progress right now,
> otherwise the scatter lists become to big to ensure we'll be able to allocate
> one to dispatch a write command.
>
> We do report the size and the alignment constraints so that it won't get split,
> but we still have to work with applications that don't abide by those
> constraints.
>
> > My main point is: There is no fundamental reason for splitting up
> > requests intermittently just to re-assemble them in the same form
> > later.

_______________________________________________
linux-nvme mailing list
linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvme

  reply	other threads:[~2020-06-18 22:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 192+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-06-15 23:34 [PATCH 0/5] nvme support for zoned namespace command set Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:34 ` Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:34 ` [PATCH 1/5] block: add capacity field to zone descriptors Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:34   ` Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:49   ` Chaitanya Kulkarni
2020-06-15 23:49     ` Chaitanya Kulkarni
2020-06-16 10:28   ` Javier González
2020-06-16 10:28     ` Javier González
2020-06-16 13:47   ` Daniel Wagner
2020-06-16 13:47     ` Daniel Wagner
2020-06-16 13:54   ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-06-16 13:54     ` Johannes Thumshirn
2020-06-16 15:41   ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-16 15:41     ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-15 23:34 ` [PATCH 2/5] null_blk: introduce zone capacity for zoned device Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:34   ` Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:46   ` Chaitanya Kulkarni
2020-06-15 23:46     ` Chaitanya Kulkarni
2020-06-16 14:18   ` Daniel Wagner
2020-06-16 14:18     ` Daniel Wagner
2020-06-16 15:48   ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-16 15:48     ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-15 23:34 ` [PATCH 3/5] nvme: implement I/O Command Sets Command Set support Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:34   ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 10:33   ` Javier González
2020-06-16 10:33     ` Javier González
2020-06-16 17:14     ` Niklas Cassel
2020-06-16 17:14       ` Niklas Cassel
2020-06-16 15:58   ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-16 15:58     ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-16 17:01     ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 17:01       ` Keith Busch
2020-06-17  9:50       ` Niklas Cassel
2020-06-17  9:50         ` Niklas Cassel
2020-06-16 17:06     ` Niklas Cassel
2020-06-16 17:06       ` Niklas Cassel
2020-06-17  2:01       ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-17  2:01         ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-15 23:34 ` [PATCH 4/5] nvme: support for multi-command set effects Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:34   ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 10:34   ` Javier González
2020-06-16 10:34     ` Javier González
2020-06-16 16:03   ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-16 16:03     ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-15 23:34 ` [PATCH 5/5] nvme: support for zoned namespaces Keith Busch
2020-06-15 23:34   ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 10:41   ` Javier González
2020-06-16 10:41     ` Javier González
2020-06-16 11:18     ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 11:18       ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 12:00       ` Javier González
2020-06-16 12:00         ` Javier González
2020-06-16 12:06         ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 12:06           ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 12:24           ` Javier González
2020-06-16 12:24             ` Javier González
2020-06-16 12:27             ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 12:27               ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 12:35             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 12:35               ` Damien Le Moal
     [not found]               ` <CGME20200616130815uscas1p1be34e5fceaa548eac31fb30790a689d4@uscas1p1.samsung.com>
2020-06-16 13:08                 ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:08                   ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:32                   ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 13:32                     ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 13:34                   ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 13:34                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 14:16               ` Javier González
2020-06-16 14:16                 ` Javier González
2020-06-16 14:42                 ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 14:42                   ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 15:02                   ` Javier González
2020-06-16 15:02                     ` Javier González
2020-06-16 15:20                     ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 15:20                       ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 16:03                       ` Javier González
2020-06-16 16:03                         ` Javier González
2020-06-16 16:07                         ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-16 16:07                           ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-16 16:21                           ` Javier González
2020-06-16 16:21                             ` Javier González
2020-06-16 16:25                             ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 16:25                               ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 15:48                     ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 15:48                       ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 15:55                       ` Javier González
2020-06-16 15:55                         ` Javier González
2020-06-16 16:04                         ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-16 16:04                           ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-16 16:07                         ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 16:07                           ` Keith Busch
2020-06-16 16:13                           ` Javier González
2020-06-16 16:13                             ` Javier González
2020-06-17  0:38                             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  0:38                               ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  6:18                               ` Javier González
2020-06-17  6:18                                 ` Javier González
2020-06-17  6:54                                 ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  6:54                                   ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  7:11                                   ` Javier González
2020-06-17  7:11                                     ` Javier González
2020-06-17  7:29                                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  7:29                                       ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  7:34                                       ` Javier González
2020-06-17  7:34                                         ` Javier González
2020-06-17  0:14                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  0:14                       ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  6:09                       ` Javier González
2020-06-17  6:09                         ` Javier González
2020-06-17  6:47                         ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  6:47                           ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  7:02                           ` Javier González
2020-06-17  7:02                             ` Javier González
2020-06-17  7:24                             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  7:24                               ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  7:29                               ` Javier González
2020-06-17  7:29                                 ` Javier González
     [not found]         ` <CGME20200616123503uscas1p22ce22054a1b4152a20437b5abdd55119@uscas1p2.samsung.com>
2020-06-16 12:35           ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 12:35             ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 12:37             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 12:37               ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 12:37             ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 12:37               ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-16 13:12               ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:12                 ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:18                 ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:18                   ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:32                   ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:32                     ` Judy Brock
2020-06-16 13:39                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-16 13:39                       ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-17  7:43     ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-06-17  7:43       ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-06-17 12:01       ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-17 12:01         ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-17 15:00         ` Javier González
2020-06-17 15:00           ` Javier González
2020-06-17 14:42       ` Javier González
2020-06-17 14:42         ` Javier González
2020-06-17 17:57         ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-17 17:57           ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-17 18:28           ` Javier González
2020-06-17 18:28             ` Javier González
2020-06-17 18:55             ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-17 18:55               ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-17 19:09               ` Javier González
2020-06-17 19:09                 ` Javier González
2020-06-17 19:23                 ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-17 19:23                   ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-17 19:40                   ` Javier González
2020-06-17 19:40                     ` Javier González
2020-06-17 23:44                     ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-17 23:44                       ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-18  1:55                       ` Keith Busch
2020-06-18  1:55                         ` Keith Busch
2020-06-18  4:24                         ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-18  4:24                           ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-18  5:15                           ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-18  5:15                             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-18 20:47                             ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-18 20:47                               ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-18 21:04                               ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-18 21:04                                 ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-18 21:19                               ` Keith Busch
2020-06-18 21:19                                 ` Keith Busch
2020-06-18 22:05                                 ` Heiner Litz [this message]
2020-06-18 22:05                                   ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-19  0:57                                   ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-19  0:57                                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-06-19 10:29                                   ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-19 10:29                                     ` Matias Bjorling
2020-06-19 18:08                                     ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-19 18:08                                       ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-19 18:10                                       ` Keith Busch
2020-06-19 18:10                                         ` Keith Busch
2020-06-19 18:17                                         ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-19 18:17                                           ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-19 18:22                                           ` Keith Busch
2020-06-19 18:22                                             ` Keith Busch
2020-06-19 18:25                                           ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-19 18:25                                             ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-19 18:40                                             ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-19 18:40                                               ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-19 18:18                                       ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-19 18:18                                         ` Matias Bjørling
2020-06-20  6:33                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-06-20  6:33                                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-06-20 17:52                                         ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-20 17:52                                           ` Heiner Litz
2020-06-22 14:01                                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2022-03-02 21:11                   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-06-17  2:08   ` Martin K. Petersen
2020-06-17  2:08     ` Martin K. Petersen

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=CAJbgVnVxtfs3m6HKJOQw4E1sqTQBmtF_P-D4aAZ5zsz4rQUXNA@mail.gmail.com \
    --to=hlitz@ucsc.edu \
    --cc=Ajay.Joshi@wdc.com \
    --cc=Aravind.Ramesh@wdc.com \
    --cc=Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com \
    --cc=Dmitry.Fomichev@wdc.com \
    --cc=Hans.Holmberg@wdc.com \
    --cc=Keith.Busch@wdc.com \
    --cc=Matias.Bjorling@wdc.com \
    --cc=Niklas.Cassel@wdc.com \
    --cc=axboe@kernel.dk \
    --cc=hch@lst.de \
    --cc=javier@javigon.com \
    --cc=judy.brock@samsung.com \
    --cc=kbusch@kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-block@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org \
    --cc=mb@lightnvm.io \
    --cc=sagi@grimberg.me \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.