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From: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
To: "Arve Hjønnevåg" <arve@android.com>
Cc: swetland@google.com, Nigel Cunningham <ncunningham@crca.org.au>,
	linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 00/11] Android PM extensions
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:27:53 -0500 (EST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0901292203470.4063-100000@netrider.rowland.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d6200be20901291716g5b6f4542r54c2ba8672961c91@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009, Arve Hjønnevåg wrote:

> Documentation/power/wakelocks.txt
> Wakelocks
> =========
> 
> A wakelock prevents the system from entering suspend or other low-power
> states when active.

I wish your writing was clearer.  "when active" could mean "when the 
system is active" or "when the wakelock is active".  Try to be less 
ambiguous.  For example: "When a wakelock is locked, it blocks the 
system from entering suspend or other low-power states."

> If the type is set to WAKE_LOCK_SUSPEND, the wakelock
> prevents a full system suspend. If the type is WAKE_LOCK_IDLE, low-power
> states that cause large interrupt latencies or that disable a set of
> interrupts will not be entered from idle until the wakelocks are released.

Here you talk about "will not be entered from idle", whereas above you 
mention "when active".  So which is it?  Does a wakelock affect an 
active system or an idle system?

> Wakelocks can be used to allow user-space to decide which keys should wake
> the system. The sequence of events can look like this:

> - The Keypad driver gets an interrupt. It then locks the keypad-scan wakelock
>   and starts scanning the keypad.

Is the system asleep to begin with?  If it is, how does the keypad 
driver get this interrupt unless the system first wakes up?

Conversely, what happens if the PM core has just started a system
suspend?  Does locking the wakelock force the suspend to be aborted?

> - The keypad-scan code detects a key change and reports it to the input-event
>   driver.
> - The input-event driver sees the key change, enqueues an event, and locks
>   the input-event-queue wakelock.
> - The keypad-scan code detects that no keys are held and unlocks the
>   keypad-scan wakelock.

What use is the keypad-scan wakelock?  Isn't the fact that the keypad
driver's interrupt handler is running already sufficient to prevent or
delay a system suspend?

> - The user-space input-event thread returns from select/poll, locks the
>   process-input-events wakelock and then calls read in the input-event device.
> - The input-event driver dequeues the key-event and, since the queue is now
>   empty, it unlocks the input-event-queue wakelock.

Does the input-event-queue wakelock always prevent the system from 
suspending whenever the input queue is nonempty?  Does that mean if I 
type ahead while a program is running, I can't suspend the computer 
until the program processes the keystrokes?

Does the wakelock mechanism distinguish between suspend or power-state
transitions that happen automatically and transitions requested
directly by userspace?  This would be a little more understandable if
the wakelocks only prevent the system from suspending itself and don't
prevent me from suspending the system.

> - The user-space input-event thread returns from read. It determines that the
>   key should not wake up the system, releases the process-input-events
>   wakelock and calls select or poll.

This makes no sense.  If the system wasn't asleep to begin with, how 
could the key wake it up?  And if the system _was_ asleep to begin 
with, how could all of this happen without waking the system up?

Alan Stern

  reply	other threads:[~2009-01-30  3:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-01-14  1:27 [RFC][PATCH 00/11] Android PM extensions Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27 ` [PATCH 01/11] PM: Add wake lock api Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27   ` [PATCH 02/11] PM: Add early suspend api Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27     ` [PATCH 03/11] PM: Implement wakelock api Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27       ` [PATCH 04/11] PM: Implement early suspend api Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27         ` [PATCH 05/11] PM: Enable early suspend through /sys/power/state Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27           ` [PATCH 06/11] PM: Add user-space wake lock api Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27             ` [PATCH 07/11] PM: wakelock: Abort task freezing if a wake lock is held Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27               ` [PATCH 08/11] PM: earlysuspend: Add console switch when user requested sleep state changes Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27                 ` [PATCH 09/11] PM: earlysuspend: Removing dependence on console Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27                   ` [PATCH 10/11] Input: Hold wake lock while event queue is not empty Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  1:27                     ` [PATCH 11/11] ledtrig-sleep: Add led trigger for sleep debugging Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-30 12:43             ` [PATCH 06/11] PM: Add user-space wake lock api Uli Luckas
2009-01-31  0:17               ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-31  7:24               ` Brian Swetland
2009-01-28 19:34           ` [PATCH 05/11] PM: Enable early suspend through /sys/power/state Pavel Machek
2009-01-31  3:13             ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-31 15:49               ` Alan Stern
2009-02-02 11:44                 ` Pavel Machek
2009-02-02 11:45               ` Pavel Machek
2009-02-02 22:36                 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  9:48         ` [PATCH 04/11] PM: Implement early suspend api Nigel Cunningham
2009-01-14 23:57           ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  9:30       ` [PATCH 03/11] PM: Implement wakelock api Nigel Cunningham
2009-01-14 23:28         ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  9:17     ` [PATCH 02/11] PM: Add early suspend api Nigel Cunningham
2009-01-14 23:18       ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  9:09   ` [PATCH 01/11] PM: Add wake lock api Nigel Cunningham
2009-01-14 23:07     ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-14  9:01 ` [RFC][PATCH 00/11] Android PM extensions Nigel Cunningham
2009-01-15  0:10   ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-15  4:42   ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-15 15:08     ` Alan Stern
2009-01-15 20:34       ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-29 13:04       ` Pavel Machek
2009-01-30  1:16         ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-30  3:27           ` Alan Stern [this message]
2009-01-30  4:40             ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-30  6:04               ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-02 11:49                 ` Pavel Machek
2009-01-30  9:11               ` Pavel Machek
2009-01-30 12:34                 ` Uli Luckas
2009-02-02 11:46                   ` Pavel Machek
2009-01-30 15:13               ` Alan Stern
2009-01-31  0:02                 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-31 16:19                   ` Alan Stern
2009-01-31 23:28                     ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-02 10:42                     ` Uli Luckas
2009-02-02 15:05                       ` Alan Stern
2009-02-02 16:15                         ` Uli Luckas
2009-02-02 16:35                           ` Alan Stern
2009-02-03 20:15                           ` Pavel Machek
2009-01-31  7:47                 ` Brian Swetland
2009-01-31 15:41                   ` Alan Stern
2009-01-31 18:39                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2009-01-31 18:54                       ` Igor Stoppa
2009-02-01  1:04                       ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-02 11:55                       ` Pavel Machek
2009-01-31 22:41                     ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-01-31 23:20                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2009-01-31 23:32                         ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-01  0:18                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2009-02-01  1:17                             ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-01  1:32                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2009-02-01  2:14                                 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-01 12:30                                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2009-02-01 14:03                                     ` Woodruff, Richard
2009-02-01 17:43                                     ` Alan Stern
2009-02-01 19:27                                       ` Woodruff, Richard
2009-02-02 11:00                                       ` Uli Luckas
2009-02-02 15:09                                         ` Alan Stern
2009-02-02 16:24                                           ` Uli Luckas
2009-02-02 21:47                                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2009-02-02 23:21                                             ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-02 23:51                                               ` Nigel Cunningham
2009-02-03  0:08                                                 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-04 13:25                                               ` Pavel Machek
2009-02-02 23:10                                           ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-03  3:27                                             ` Alan Stern
2009-02-03  4:18                                               ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-03 20:30                                                 ` Alan Stern
2009-02-04 13:29                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2009-02-02 11:56                         ` Pavel Machek
2009-02-02 12:38                           ` Uli Luckas
2009-01-30  9:08           ` Pavel Machek
2009-01-30  9:25             ` Brian Swetland
2009-01-28 19:31 ` Pavel Machek
2009-02-05  2:50 Arve Hjønnevåg
2009-02-06 23:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki

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