From: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <email@example.com> To: Toshiaki Makita <firstname.lastname@example.org>, John Fastabend <email@example.com>, Alexei Starovoitov <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Daniel Borkmann <email@example.com>, Martin KaFai Lau <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Song Liu <email@example.com>, Yonghong Song <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "David S. Miller" <email@example.com>, Jakub Kicinski <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Jesper Dangaard Brouer <email@example.com>, Jamal Hadi Salim <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Cong Wang <email@example.com>, Jiri Pirko <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Pablo Neira Ayuso <email@example.com>, Jozsef Kadlecsik <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Florian Westphal <email@example.com>, Pravin B Shelar <firstname.lastname@example.org> Cc: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, William Tu <email@example.com>, Stanislav Fomichev <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 00/15] xdp_flow: Flow offload to XDP Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 17:53:23 +0100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <email@example.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Toshiaki Makita <email@example.com> writes: > > Hi Toke, > > Sorry for the delay. > > On 2019/10/31 21:12, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote: >> Toshiaki Makita <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes: >> >>> On 2019/10/28 0:21, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote: >>>> Toshiaki Makita <email@example.com> writes: >>>>>> Yeah, you are right that it's something we're thinking about. I'm not >>>>>> sure we'll actually have the bandwidth to implement a complete solution >>>>>> ourselves, but we are very much interested in helping others do this, >>>>>> including smoothing out any rough edges (or adding missing features) in >>>>>> the core XDP feature set that is needed to achieve this :) >>>>> >>>>> I'm very interested in general usability solutions. >>>>> I'd appreciate if you could join the discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Here the basic idea of my approach is to reuse HW-offload infrastructure >>>>> in kernel. >>>>> Typical networking features in kernel have offload mechanism (TC flower, >>>>> nftables, bridge, routing, and so on). >>>>> In general these are what users want to accelerate, so easy XDP use also >>>>> should support these features IMO. With this idea, reusing existing >>>>> HW-offload mechanism is a natural way to me. OVS uses TC to offload >>>>> flows, then use TC for XDP as well... >>>> >>>> I agree that XDP should be able to accelerate existing kernel >>>> functionality. However, this does not necessarily mean that the kernel >>>> has to generate an XDP program and install it, like your patch does. >>>> Rather, what we should be doing is exposing the functionality through >>>> helpers so XDP can hook into the data structures already present in the >>>> kernel and make decisions based on what is contained there. We already >>>> have that for routing; L2 bridging, and some kind of connection >>>> tracking, are obvious contenders for similar additions. >>> >>> Thanks, adding helpers itself should be good, but how does this let users >>> start using XDP without having them write their own BPF code? >> >> It wouldn't in itself. But it would make it possible to write XDP >> programs that could provide the same functionality; people would then >> need to run those programs to actually opt-in to this. >> >> For some cases this would be a simple "on/off switch", e.g., >> "xdp-route-accel --load <dev>", which would install an XDP program that >> uses the regular kernel routing table (and the same with bridging). We >> are planning to collect such utilities in the xdp-tools repo - I am >> currently working on a simple packet filter: >> https://github.com/xdp-project/xdp-tools/tree/xdp-filter > > Let me confirm how this tool adds filter rules. > Is this adding another commandline tool for firewall? > > If so, that is different from my goal. > Introducing another commandline tool will require people to learn > more. > > My proposal is to reuse kernel interface to minimize such need for > learning. I wasn't proposing that this particular tool should be a replacement for the kernel packet filter; it's deliberately fairly limited in functionality. My point was that we could create other such tools for specific use cases which could be more or less drop-in (similar to how nftables has a command line tool that is compatible with the iptables syntax). I'm all for exposing more of the existing kernel capabilities to XDP. However, I think it's the wrong approach to do this by reimplementing the functionality in eBPF program and replicating the state in maps; instead, it's better to refactor the existing kernel functionality to it can be called directly from an eBPF helper function. And then ship a tool as part of xdp-tools that installs an XDP program to make use of these helpers to accelerate the functionality. Take your example of TC rules: You were proposing a flow like this: Userspace TC rule -> kernel rule table -> eBPF map -> generated XDP program Whereas what I mean is that we could do this instead: Userspace TC rule -> kernel rule table and separately XDP program -> bpf helper -> lookup in kernel rule table -Toke
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-11-12 16:55 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2019-10-18 4:07 Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 01/15] xdp_flow: Add skeleton of XDP based flow offload driver Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 02/15] xdp_flow: Add skeleton bpf program for XDP Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 03/15] bpf: Add API to get program from id Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 04/15] xdp: Export dev_check_xdp and dev_change_xdp Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 05/15] xdp_flow: Attach bpf prog to XDP in kernel after UMH loaded program Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 06/15] xdp_flow: Prepare flow tables in bpf Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 07/15] xdp_flow: Add flow entry insertion/deletion logic in UMH Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 08/15] xdp_flow: Add flow handling and basic actions in bpf prog Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 09/15] xdp_flow: Implement flow replacement/deletion logic in xdp_flow kmod Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 10/15] xdp_flow: Add netdev feature for enabling flow offload to XDP Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 11/15] xdp_flow: Implement redirect action Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 12/15] xdp_flow: Implement vlan_push action Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 13/15] bpf, selftest: Add test for xdp_flow Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 14/15] i40e: prefetch xdp->data before running XDP prog Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 4:07 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 15/15] bpf, hashtab: Compare keys in long Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-18 15:22 ` [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 00/15] xdp_flow: Flow offload to XDP John Fastabend 2019-10-21 7:31 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-22 16:54 ` John Fastabend 2019-10-22 17:45 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-10-24 4:27 ` John Fastabend 2019-10-24 10:13 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-10-27 13:19 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-27 15:21 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-10-28 3:16 ` David Ahern 2019-10-28 8:36 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-10-28 10:08 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2019-10-28 19:07 ` David Ahern 2019-10-28 19:05 ` David Ahern 2019-10-31 0:18 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-31 12:12 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-11-11 7:32 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-11-12 16:53 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen [this message] 2019-11-14 10:11 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-11-14 12:41 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-11-18 6:41 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-11-18 10:20 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-11-22 5:42 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-11-22 11:54 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-11-25 10:18 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-11-25 13:03 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-11-18 10:28 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-10-27 13:13 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-27 15:24 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-10-27 19:17 ` David Miller 2019-10-31 0:32 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-11-12 17:50 ` William Tu 2019-11-14 10:06 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-11-14 17:09 ` William Tu 2019-11-15 13:16 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2019-11-12 17:38 ` William Tu 2019-10-23 14:11 ` Jamal Hadi Salim 2019-10-24 4:38 ` John Fastabend 2019-10-24 17:05 ` Jamal Hadi Salim 2019-10-27 13:27 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-27 13:06 ` Toshiaki Makita 2019-10-21 11:23 ` Björn Töpel 2019-10-21 11:47 ` Toshiaki Makita
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